Pay for EMT's and Paramedics.

[JM15 386]

As a lifeguard at a small local pool with only at the most 25 people there I made 15 dollars and hour. That was the best and easiest summer job. I think that EMT's and Medics should get paid more but I don't think that it will happen until there is organization. You need to have a strong union to back you up like the IAFF.

[firefighter36 52]

First and foremost, I made more per hour in high school working at a gas station than I did in college and after working private EMS. I made $10 per hour for about 3 years as a commercial EMT. (same place as you moggie.) I grew up in CT, where EMTs were making $14-$20 and medics $24 and up. This was at a commercial service in a union shop, where the hiring process was very selective. Other commercial operations existed, and their pay and their quality of service reflected upon each other. I chose to stick around where I went to college (NY) and work EMS in that area, where I received $10 per hour, no insurance, no retirement, just PTO based upon the hours I worked.

The biggest problem I found working commercial EMS was lack of a business plan on the company's part, and lack of any sort of sensible compensation plan. The company was a springboard for everyone who wanted to go into Law Enforcement, Firefighting, Medicine, etc. As the company grew, it seemed as though they fixed things with duct tape, rather than come up with any real plan for the long run. In my first 3 months, I saw 2 general managers "move on" and 3 operations managers "promoted due to their diligence and hard work." All whose resumes read paramedic with 5-15 yrs experience. No management training, no leadership training, etc. Needless to say, I was never in trouble, but going the extra mile was never appreciated, leaving me to make my aforementioned wage for 3 years.

Compensation is a big picture, it includes your pay, insurance, time off, just to name a few factors. This company never really offered much to PT and Per Diem employees, and the pay vs. benefits for full timers was not much better. To make matters worse, new hires coming in the door were being offered high hourly wages for recruitment and retention purposes, all while long-time, loyal employees were being given little opportunity to advance or earn a raise. This was unfair to loyal employees, and created a lot of tension amongst the staff. It is an insult to be making 20k a year for 2 or 3 yrs and have to work OT to come to parody with a new person's base pay.

On top of this, the company would low-ball contract bids in the hopes of making up earnings in insurance payouts for transports. Emergency Services is not about what will happen, it is about what may happen. Having an ambulance in your down (likewise a paid PD and FD) is an insurance policy. It is about having property staffed, trained people on the right apparatus for when the call goes out, so there is the best possibility of delivering the best help as promptly as possible. With that, the company was often in financial trouble, and staffing was always short, OT was cut, added, people were bounced from call to call, from shift to shift, and there was never a real set plan as far as the actual operations went. (Managers were merely paramedics who were asked to handle business instead of going on calls.) Again, there was little or no management training. One day you were in a rig, the next day you rode the desk and wore a white shirt or business casual clothing.

EMS is a career, and I think that x635 has put it best when he describes his ideal EMS system. As for pay, EMS professionals are grossly underpaid, and are definitely worth more. I think that working conditions, morale, etc. all play a factor. We all know none of us were or are there for the money, however, there is only so much you can put up with before you have to stand up for yourselves. I agree that a union may be the way to go, benefits and retirement, as long as a say in working conditions can go a long way. I think that the first step though, is giving EMS employees a wage that they can live on, and re-structuring how companies do business.

[NYMedic37 22]

Calm down there. There is no way that Medics or EMT's deserve more than COPS or Fireman make an hour. I am sorry. Now of course that matters for where you work and how much work you do but not as much as COPS/FIREMAN. I do believe that the PAY SUCKS for EMS PROFESSIONALS. Having done that for a LONG TIME, I know what it is like. But $50 and hour come on. Most COPS/FIREMAN don't make that an hour. Unless of course you are a YPD/YFD, Clarkstown PD, NASSAU/SUFFOLK COUNTY PD. There might be a couple more in there.

What if your life is not saved in CARDIAC ARREST, A.P.E, Trauma? Does the family get you paycheck for what you didn't do? I do belive that ALL EMS should get raises. I would never work for $10 and hour as an EMT or less then $25 as a MEDIC.

OK, lets look at it this way....Where I work its on revenue recovery. If I do 1 ambulance call during my 12 hour shift, I have covered more then my pay for that day. The rest is all gravy for the service. The question is, what would you pay for a professionally trained EMT or Paramedic that could save your life? Its not the volume of calls its the quality of medical treatment. $25.00/hour for EMT's and $50.00 / hour for Paramedics is reasonable.

[NYMedic37 22]

UNION UNION UNION

The major problem I see within EMS is a lack of solidarity and Unionization. Until EMS bands together and becomes a strong Union the idea of salaries, benefits and other perks will remain. Without collective bargaining and a lobbyist your just spinng your wheels. Fraternal organizations and the like are great but that is not going to improve your working conditions. Fighting for fair contracts for decades is the only reason the PD and fd have the benefits they receive and it is a constant battle to maintain our working conditions let alone improve them let alone improve them.

I agree, EMS needs to be union. As sensitive as this is, we really should also have an all paid system. Volunteers have a lot of heart with what they do and provide a community service but they do prevent EMS from becoming a truely recognized career that is paid equally with PD &FD along with benefits and 20 year retirement.

[NYMedic37 22]

I have 9 years EMT experience under my belt. I have been with my current "private ambulance" company for the past 3 years and make--FT $11.60hr. No union. With my NJ "state hospital" EMS job--PD $17.94hr dayshift PLUS a $1.75hr night diff. with a state retirement plan after 25 years in. Union shop. But we run all day and night long. 14-20 runs in a 12 hour shift.

If you don't mind me asking, where do you work NJ EMS (what hospital / city)?

[NYMedic37 22]

Of course EMS is underpaid but PD and FD have been around for over 100 years as public service employees. It took us that long to begin to be paid a "living" wage. Even 20 years ago PD and FD were in the lower middle class section of the income scale.

Personally, I don't think that EMS should get paid the same as PD/FD. There are many jursidictions that require being an EMT in order to be a firefighter or some that even require PD Officers to be EMT's. Should you be paid more, absolutely but in my opinion, if you really want to make more money and still work as a medic, become a cop in an police based EMS system or a firefighter on an ALS response rig. If you don't want to do that, don't hold your breath for those pay raises. (Given as long as it took PD and FD, ohh that should be about another 75-80 years).

My idea, $15-20/hr for EMT's and $30-35/hr for Paramedics.

Apples, oranges and banannas......all fruit but not the same. PD, FD and EMS ... all emergency services but not the same either. Why does a Paramedic or an EMT have to be a FF or PO to do what they really want to do. EMS should be its own entity, not the red headed step child of a PD or FD.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

not the red headed step child of a PD or FD.

I feel really sorry for those of you who have worked where EMS is the "red headed step child" of the FD. As I always say if your going to do it do it right. FD based systems are well paid, great benefits, great retirement and so on. Its a shame that in the northeast there are too many systems where EMS isn't done the right way or seen as something FD's shouldn't do when the majority of FD systems are run fantastic and are some of the best in the country.

I haven't said anything, but I'm fairly happy with what I get paid (hell who doesn't want more money) and we are the best bang for the buck being dual role providers. Throw in a well run system with managers who understand and don't look at it as another service but as part of the service you provide and its well rounded. I have to say at least I haven't heard the "you can't do and be good at both" argument. That's flat out BS. If you have the right management and the system was implemented or is implemented correctly and your employees are treated well FD based systems are great.

[NYMedic37 22]

I feel really sorry for those of you who have worked where EMS is the "red headed step child" of the FD. As I always say if your going to do it do it right. FD based systems are well paid, great benefits, great retirement and so on. Its a shame that in the northeast there are too many systems where EMS isn't done the right way or seen as something FD's shouldn't do when the majority of FD systems are run fantastic and are some of the best in the country.

I haven't said anything, but I'm fairly happy with what I get paid (hell who doesn't want more money) and we are the best bang for the buck being dual role providers. Throw in a well run system with managers who understand and don't look at it as another service but as part of the service you provide and its well rounded. I have to say at least I haven't heard the "you can't do and be good at both" argument. That's flat out BS. If you have the right management and the system was implemented or is implemented correctly and your employees are treated well FD based systems are great.

Sure you can do both and be good at both but why be forced to be a firefighter or police pfficer if you just want to be an EMT or a Paramedic? EMS should be a third municipal service. Period.

[Future Fireman 4]

Of course EMS is underpaid but PD and FD have been around for over 100 years as public service employees. It took us that long to begin to be paid a "living" wage. Even 20 years ago PD and FD were in the lower middle class section of the income scale.

Personally, I don't think that EMS should get paid the same as PD/FD. There are many jursidictions that require being an EMT in order to be a firefighter or some that even require PD Officers to be EMT's. Should you be paid more, absolutely but in my opinion, if you really want to make more money and still work as a medic, become a cop in an police based EMS system or a firefighter on an ALS response rig. If you don't want to do that, don't hold your breath for those pay raises. (Given as long as it took PD and FD, ohh that should be about another 75-80 years).

My idea, $15-20/hr for EMT's and $30-35/hr for Paramedics.

I'd say EMS deserves a LARGE pay raise. $25/hour for EMT's $40-50 for Paramedics and Supervisors. Beginner's (whether EMT or Paramedic) should get $20. Then again, you're asking a guy who lives in Taxachusetts.

Mike

[helicopper 1,050]

I didn't misunderstand. I just read what you wrote. In my opinion all EDP's require COPS to be there. Now if you don't like being an UNDERPAID EMT go to MEDIC SCHOOL, Graduate, and go work for a PRIVATE HOSPITAL IN NYC. Nobody is telling you to work for so CHEAP. I speak from experience so I understand where you are coming from.

UNIONIZE is the only way to go. Even if it is with the CSEA which is HORRIBLE in most places. Private companies obviously don't want that.

Lighten up a little, oneeye! The bottom line is EMT's SHOULDN'T be underpaid to begin with and if someone wants to work as an EMT and not go to medic school they should be able to support their family doing so. Paramedics shouldn't have to go to private hospitals in NYC to earn what they deserve. A paramedic working in Westchester or Putnam is just as important to his/her patients as a paramedic anywhere else. Geography shouldn't dictate a reasonable wage.

Parity with police and fire is not necessarily the best option but there should definitely be a BIG bump in wages and benefits for the people who are coming to save OUR rear ends after it hits the fan.

As for fire based EMS, there should be options for those who wish to be a medic and not an FF or vice versa. To require BOTH specialities limits the pool of candidates unncessarily and requires a ridiculous amount of continuing education to stay current and proficient in both jobs.

[22 Truck 6]

I believe 22 Truck was talking about volunteer staffing, and getting vollies to answer calls now-a-days. I could be wrong though.

That's correct.

Goose,

Not many runs daily (I believe we are at 740 BLS, 620 ALS as of last night for the calendar year). There is no need for more than 1 Paramedic on daily for career staff....what I'm saying is, if you work a 4 on/4 off wheel for example, and you have M-T-W-Th off, not doing much on Mon./Tues? and feel like picking up what was once a volley shift, a nice little incentive to tech 5 or 6 calls and rake in couple bucks and help out your local community at the same time. I don't see how it would be feasable to have full-time staffing for such low call volume, nor would this system work for a high volume commercial agency. Bottom line, we had a problem with staffing, this was the cheapest way we saw to solve the problem, and has since been successful.

Hope that answer's your question.

[ny10570 745]

I agree, EMS needs to be union. As sensitive as this is, we really should also have an all paid system. Volunteers have a lot of heart with what they do and provide a community service but they do prevent EMS from becoming a truely recognized career that is paid equally with PD &FD along with benefits and 20 year retirement.

Stop it. That argument has no substance. Fire is doing fine with volleys everywhere. If Volleys were such a problem then why isn't PD doing so much better than fire? Why are cities like Mt. Vernon with no volley support able to crap on their firefighters?

You want change, you have to organize and then support your union. Until then, nothing any individual does matters because there is always someone else coming down the street ready to replace us. EMS is a new service. Fire and PD have been around for decades and have earned what they have today. No one is just going to hand over better wages and compensation because its the right thing. They must be forced into it.

[orangEMT246 6]

If you don't mind me asking, where do you work NJ EMS (what hospital / city)?

UMDNJ in Newark NJ.

[NYMedic37 22]

UMDNJ in Newark NJ.

Thanks.

[50-65 205]

Look at it from an employers point of view. Why should I, as an employer, pay more than $10 when I have stacks of applications from people willing to do the job for that.

I also have EMT's that b**** and complain about being mandated, given that job, or working OT, only to go home and VOLUNTEER the next 12 - 24 hrs doing the same thing for no $$.

[GM911 0]

My agency was all volley from 1957-2005...with a severe drop-off in volunteerism, in 2004 the decision was made to mimic an agency nearby with the same problem and went paid-per-call at the same rate they offered. In April 2005 we began the endeavor which has held true to present; every call dispatched is as follows:

Driver of amb. on a transport: receives $35 per call

EMT of amb. on a transport: receives $45 per call

CC/Paramedic on any amb. including ALS intercept on agency fly car: receives $80 per call

Driver, EMT, or CC/EMT-P on any: fire call stand-by, cancellation or sign-off: $10 a piece

(i.e. had a car accident today with 4 sign-offs, received $40 total '$10 for each').

Though my EMT (Career) pay doesn't seem much, taking what was once a "volley" call helps out with play money now.

Needless to say, there is no problem getting an amb. or fly car out now.

I'm just wondering, what's stopping the medics from having a friend call in sick? I mean on a slow day, having a buddy with a "bad stomachache" call 911 for a ride over to the hospital will bring you a quick $80 bucks... or better yet, make a close connection with PD and have them call you out for fenderbenders and the like.

I just think payment per call leaves the agency very open to foul play

[NYMedic37 22]

Look at it from an employers point of view. Why should I, as an employer, pay more than $10 when I have stacks of applications from people willing to do the job for that.

I also have EMT's that b**** and complain about being mandated, given that job, or working OT, only to go home and VOLUNTEER the next 12 - 24 hrs doing the same thing for no $$.

That's a sad viewpoint......

[50-65 205]

That's a sad viewpoint......

Just to clarify, I AM NOT an employer, but I have heard those excuses used by managers.

And yes, it is sad. Sad but true.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

As for fire based EMS, there should be options for those who wish to be a medic and not an FF or vice versa. To require BOTH specialities limits the pool of candidates unncessarily and requires a ridiculous amount of continuing education to stay current and proficient in both jobs.

Maybe, but I haven't always seen it that way. They don't seem to have those problems to the west and south. If anything right now for departments that have ALS the current system hinders us from getting to candidates who are medics when needed. There are departments that I have colleagues in that have medics knocking down the door for the job.

EMS should be a third municipal service. Period

I don't do comments like "period." I'm not saying that your necessarily wrong, I'm just pointing out my insight. I would say if they are 3rd party they should be municipal and civil service. Not for nothing but if that is the case how come there aren't more 3rd party services.

[Guest]

Another problem is that there ARE plenty of people knocking down the door to get into EMS. I see people in EMT/Paramedic classes all the time that can't wait to get on the road for little $$ and crappy benifits that they have to pay into. My department rarely takes medics that have less than 5 yrs. experience and they normally are hand picked. If they are fortunate enough to get on here, the pay is nice. I don't know how people in the private sector do it? I haven't worked for less than $20 an hour since 1997. I agree with JCESU.....Union, Union, Union. And for those who dislike unions, just think about what kind of pay we all would be working for and what kind of conditions we would have if there were none. Happy Holidays!