Stamford 1-24-08 job - question

[jcoppola 52]

Just wondering, and I swear I am not asking this to be a leading question...Is Greenwich covering Stamford downtown now because of the recent merger and acquisition of Belltown and Glenbrook? Since all the changes, is the out of town mutual aid to stamford changing too? And NO I am not asking this to find out if Norwalk is going to pick up more runs too...{laughing} contrary to what some of my friends may think...

JVC

[boywndr 1]

Joe,

Our current mutual aid procedure is to request temporary station coverage from the Stamford vol. departments, first. If they can not provide the unit with adequate staffing (4 FF's), we will request a unit from Greenwich or Norwalk until callback apparatus can be staffed. The only effect the merger has is we will relocate E-6 from Glenbrook, E-7 from Springdale, and notify the respective vol. departments, including Belltown, to cover their districts before relocating vol. units to SFRD headquarters.

[sr71 1]

Joe,

Our current mutual aid procedure is to request temporary station coverage from the Stamford vol. departments, first. If they can not provide the unit with adequate staffing (4 FF's), we will request a unit from Greenwich or Norwalk until callback apparatus can be staffed. The only effect the merger has is we will relocate E-6 from Glenbrook, E-7 from Springdale, and notify the respective vol. departments, including Belltown, to cover their districts before relocating vol. units to SFRD headquarters.

Are the volunteer departments from Darien included in the cities mutual aide plan? or did they just get side stepped?

[Geppetto 31]

I am posting this here - I'm not starting another thread -

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/local...0,7832319.story

Fire hits Stamford home

By Jeff Morganteen

Special Correspondent

January 25, 2008

STAMFORD - About five tenants escaped injury fleeing a fire in a multifamily three-story house yesterday morning at Adams Avenue and Chestnut Street.

Neither Hart Magnet Elementary School nor surrounding buildings had to be evacuated because of the fire, police said. The school is across the street from the house, which bellowed smoke as flames poked through the roof.

"Everyone's out and accounted for," Assistant Fire Chief John McCabe said at the scene.

About 10 people live in the house but some weren't home when the fire broke out at about 8:30 a.m. All were displaced, McCabe said.

Deputy Fire Marshal Ted Panagiotopoulos said the cause is being investigated, which should take a few days.

Lt. Sean Cooney, a police spokesman, said fire marshals are working with police.

"We get called in when it's arson or if there's a suspicion of arson," he said.

The police Youth Bureau is involved, too, because some occupants are under 16, Cooney said.

Tenant Marc Toussant, 56, said he left the house to go to work when he saw smoke coming from the first floor and called 911. Firefighters said they received the call at 8:38 a.m.

Firefighters and ladder engines from Stamford Fire & Rescue battled the flames for more than an hour as onlookers gathered in front of Hart school.

Firefighters sprayed water from one ladder truck into the second floor and, from another, down on the roof, which they ventilated to allow the smoke and flames out.

Firefighters entered the smoking house through second-floor windows at about 9:45 a.m., smashing the glass.

The back of the house was charred black and full of holes. The fire was under control by about 10 a.m., though the back of the house continued to smolder. The scene was cleared by 1 p.m.

The American Red Cross will help residents find temporary housing.

Carmel Cadet, who lived in the building for two years, said she heard noise from next door, then someone yelled fire.

"I was sleeping and I heard bam, bam, like a fight," Cadet said.

She packed a single bag of belongings before escaping, she said.

"I'm not worried about where I have to go; I'm worried about all the things I had upstairs," said Cadet, who was brought to Hart school by a Red Cross worker.

Copyright © 2008, Southern Connecticut Newspapers, Inc.

[Jason762 2]

Are the volunteer departments from Darien included in the cities mutual aide plan? or did they just get side stepped?

Sidestepped? I woulld rather call it using common sense. If the vol. depts in north Stamford cannot assemble a crew in a reasonable amount of time is it really responsible to call upon another vol dept. in a neighboring community to try and assemble a crew when we could go just up the road and get a fully staffed fully trained engine or truck company. Remember even when there is a working fire there are other emergency incidents that need to be responded to as well with fully staffed rigs. We cannot wait all day to have avaiable crews ready to respond to these additional runs. SR71 remember this isn't a small bedroom community you are used to, there are calls coming in all day long, not just one incident at a time. I believe there is a similar thread goind on right now...

Link to thread

[Guest]

Quoted from yesterday's incident alert:

Date: 1-24-08

Time: 0837

Location: 54 Adams Av (cross of Chestnut St)

Frequency: 800 Trunked

Units on Initial Dispatch: DC1, E5, E3, E2, T3, T2, R1

Units on Confirmed Working Fire @ 0843: E4 (RIT), Medic 1

Units on Second Alarm @ 0851: E1, T1

Description Of Incident: Working fire in an occupied 2-1/2 story wood frame multiple dwelling. Multiple reports (through 9-1-1 and PD on scene) of someone in the basement.

Writer: 242steve

Update: 0906 Going to Exterior Operation, Horns Sounding for evac of all crews

Callbacks/Mutual Aid: Reserve Engine and crew called back, Deputy Chief and Driver called back, Greenwich Ladder to SFRD HQ

View from Stamford 9-1-1 (Brick building is NOT the fire building): http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w303/ta.../0124080840.jpg

psd8109 on scene: http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w303/ta...-24-08_0909.jpg

Pics can be seen at: http://stamfordfirepix.com/

Just curious, how many personnel were on the Greenwich Ladder?

[AFS1970 504]

Mutual Aid agreements like this are really something that needs to be pre-planned by the respective Chiefs and not done in the controled craziness of a multiple alarm fire. I know very little about the Darien Departments manning and training, but I would think that it is prudent to include them if they are able to respond as requested. Speed is more of a factor the further away you go, so if you make the request of Norwalk you need to know that a full crew is assembling faster than if you call from Glenbrook, because of travel time. That may be a factor in leap-frogging Darien. I would like to think there are no other agendas at play here, because in the big scheme of things it really doesn't matter who you get your units from or if the crews are getting paid or not, as long as you have your area adequately covered, in a timely manner. It is however, always preferable to go with closest units when avalible.

[Guest BFD196]

There was actually no requests for relocations from any of the volunteer departments yesterday. I am not complaining, because I really don't care what department covers, just stating a fact. When the tones were transmitted for station coverage yesterday we already had a crew at Belltown, a second was assembled within a few minutes, thats also with no audio transmission after the tones went off. The first crew was already standing by anticipating that an additional "fully staffed" engine, truck, or rescue might be needed to handle additional calls somewhere in the city. Just want to set the record straight so there is no questions as to the staffing that was available. Like I said above, whoever goes for the relocations goes, if SFRD chooses to use Greenwich or Norwalk I am not questioning it.

Edited January 25, 2008 by BFD196

[sr71 1]

Sidestepped? I woulld rather call it using common sense. If the vol. depts in north Stamford cannot assemble a crew in a reasonable amount of time is it really responsible to call upon another vol dept. in a neighboring community to try and assemble a crew when we could go just up the road and get a fully staffed FULLY TRAINED engine or truck company. Remember even when there is a working fire there are other emergency incidents that need to be responded to as well with fully staffed rigs. We cannot wait all day to have avaiable crews ready to respond to these additional runs. SR71 remember this isn't a small bedroom community you are used to, there are calls coming in all day long, not just one incident at a time. I believe there is a similar thread goind on right now...

Link to thread

The reason why I asked that was a dept in town used to send a rig into Stamford every once and a while. also if there is a fire right on the border with Stamford and Darien wouldn't it make sense to request mutual aide from Noroton heights or Noroton Depending on where the call is? rather than call norwalk or another town and have a longer response? (oh, town protocols state that if for any reason a rig is requested out of town only Qualified FF1 or above trained firefighters can respond)

[Guest]

Sidestepped? I woulld rather call it using common sense. If the vol. depts in north Stamford cannot assemble a crew in a reasonable amount of time is it really responsible to call upon another vol dept. in a neighboring community to try and assemble a crew when we could go just up the road and get a fully staffed fully trained engine or truck company. Remember even when there is a working fire there are other emergency incidents that need to be responded to as well with fully staffed rigs. We cannot wait all day to have avaiable crews ready to respond to these additional runs. SR71 remember this isn't a small bedroom community you are used to, there are calls coming in all day long, not just one incident at a time. I believe there is a similar thread goind on right now...

Link to thread

15 Havemeyer Pl, Greenwich, CT to 629 Main St, Stamford, CT: 6.34 miles

121 Connecticut Ave, Norwalk, CT to 629 Main St, Stamford, CT: 7.07 miles

How many calls came in while DC1, E5, E3, E2, T3, T2, R1, E4, E1, T1

were occupied at that scene?

Edited January 26, 2008 by Sqd47

[jcoppola 52]

I DID NOT wish to start another s###storm about this, I was just wondering how it's going to work now that there are so many changes in Stamford. boywndr answered the question perfectly.

JVC

[Guest]

I DID NOT wish to start another s###storm about this, I was just wondering how it's going to work now that there are so many changes in Stamford. boywndr answered the question perfectly.

JVC

Joe,

I don't think there is a s###storm in the works.

Jason762 made some statements, and I replied with 2 statements and a question.

There have been no " negative or disrespectful comments, ranting, or "bashing" of any type ", as prohibited by the forum rules, and I would like to keep it that way.

[Jason762 2]

Joe,

I don't think there is a s###storm in the works.

Jason762 made some statements, and I replied with 2 statements and a question.

There have been no " negative or disrespectful comments, ranting, or "bashing" of any type ", as prohibited by the forum rules, and I would like to keep it that way.

I am aware of 3 other incidents where SFRD units responded that occured while the fire was taking place. Not a particularly busy day, but calls that need to be properly covered none the less. Regarding your 2 statements, I am just curious to what point you were making with the mileage from Norwalk and Greenwich to Stamford?

[x635 4,066]

Photos of this incident are now posted, http://www.emtbravo.com

Special thanks to Zinger57 for taking and submitting the photos.

[jcoppola 52]

Photos of this incident are now posted, http://www.emtbravo.com

Special thanks to Zinger57 for taking and submitting the photos.

Good pictures...Thanks!

[eckyphats 0]

I agree with everyone's points here. but something to think about......

SFRD is the 1st responder for medical calls in the city... now if you pull in a volunteer rig from Darien who are not 1st responder certified with the state and have no one on board with medical training.. what do you do? just not send an engine to medical calls? Again I am asking because I have not clue what the laws state

I know in Trumbull we never get called to fairfield or bridgeport... Bridgeport will call Milford if needed and they are a 2 towns away...

[jcoppola 52]

I agree with everyone's points here. but something to think about......

SFRD is the 1st responder for medical calls in the city... now if you pull in a volunteer rig from Darien who are not 1st responder certified with the state and have no one on board with medical training.. what do you do? just not send an engine to medical calls? Again I am asking because I have not clue what the laws state

I know in Trumbull we never get called to fairfield or bridgeport... Bridgeport will call Milford if needed and they are a 2 towns away...

I am not sure of the law exactly, but I think from the medical standpoint, it depends on the medical response status of the department and their registration with the nearest hospital emergency department. Let me provide an example: Norwalk Fire is "R2", this means that we are secondary first responders to medical calls in the city. The Police Dept. is R1 but we are both classified as "co-first responders". When we get a job that ties up all NFD resources, we are no longer responsible for providing the response to EMS runs. Conversely, we get station coverage from Westport, New Canaan, Rowayton and Darien. If an ems call comes in, historically those covering units remain in service and PD handles the call with Norwalk Hospital EMS. Once the FD is totally tied up, all bets are off. I think that any covering company could at least respond and provide basic first aid or CPR if needed, mostly all responders have at least that. Plus, at the very least we will call back and put NFD members/officers on those covering companies with the provided manpower to help them get around the city and they will be at least MRT, so in the event that they get a bad EMS call, at least initial treatment can begin.

This is interesting and I am going to find out more on this and report my findings. I think I know where to go to find out.

JVC

[Guest]

I am aware of 3 other incidents where SFRD units responded that occured while the fire was taking place. Not a particularly busy day, but calls that need to be properly covered none the less. Regarding your 2 statements, I am just curious to what point you were making with the mileage from Norwalk and Greenwich to Stamford?

I thought it useful to be more precise than saying "just up the road"

[Guest]

I thought it useful to be more precise than saying "just up the road"

JUST A NOTE..I AM SPEAKING ABOUT NY DEPTS....WHEN A FIRE DEPT IS OUT OF UNITS AND THEY REQ MUTAL AID COVERAGE IT IS FIRE COVERAGE. ONCE MUTUAL AID IS CALLED EMS AGENCY ARE ON THEIR OWN WHEN IT COMES TO CALLS. PRIMARY MUTAL AID IS FOR FIRE COVERAGE. THIS DOES BRING UP A GOOD QUESTION. WHEN MUTAL AID IS DISPATCHED INTO A DEPT HOW DOES THE DISPATCHER KNOW IF THERE IS EMS COVERAGE ON THAT RIG. WHAT HAPPENS IF THE RIG IS DISPATCHED TO AN EMS CALL AND THERE IS NO FIRST RESPONDER ON THAT RIG. I MYSELF AS AN OFFICER ON A RIG THAT DOES GO MUTAL AID TO A DEPT THAT RESPONDS TO EMS CALLS HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT. ALTHOUGH I AM AN EMT, SO IT DOESNT PERTAIN TO ME. I ALSO USED TO DISPATCH FOR THE CITY THAT MY FIRE DEPT RESPONDS MUTAL AID TO. BUT HOW DO OTHER DISPATCHERS KNOW ? LEGALLY I WOULD THINK THAT IF AN AGENCY RESPONDS TO EMS CALLS THEY ARE OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE SUCH SERVICE EVEN IF THEY HAVE MUTAL AID IN PLACE..

[AFS1970 504]

The First Responder calls bring up a good point, in that even when relocating within town, as far as I know no mention is made of requiring EMT's or MRT's. Now this may very well be a moot point because all of the Stamford Departments are Fire Responders so the vast majority of personnel are a minimum of MRT. I know that on the two calls Belltown responded to during this fire, going into Glenbrook, for a fire call we had 2 EMT's & 1 MRT as part of the Truck Crew. Later on an In District Box, 3 out of the 4 rigs had 1 EMT on board, and there were several MRT's on scene.

Now since neither of these calls were EMS related, this is largely irrelevant, except to illustrate that if the argument is that Darien can not provide such resources (I have no idea if they can or not) the fact still remains that the resources were avalible locally. However EMS qualifications have alwaty been secondary to fire qualifications when relocating for these calls. On the several relocations I have been on, most have not involved going on calls, those that have they have always been fire calls, it is very rare that we get sent on an EMS call while relocated, but that could just be the luck of the draw.

[Guest]

I can't speak for policies or reasons for Stamford Fire not to call Darien (more so Noroton or Noroton Heights fire) to cover Stamford, however if it is due to having to respond to medical calls, well Greenwich fire does not handle medical calls either but gets called to cover Stamford. I do not think the handling of medical calls factors in their (SFRD) decision to not call Darien.

[Guest]

The First Responder calls bring up a good point, in that even when relocating within town, as far as I know no mention is made of requiring EMT's or MRT's. Now this may very well be a moot point because all of the Stamford Departments are Fire Responders so the vast majority of personnel are a minimum of MRT. I know that on the two calls Belltown responded to during this fire, going into Glenbrook, for a fire call we had 2 EMT's & 1 MRT as part of the Truck Crew. Later on an In District Box, 3 out of the 4 rigs had 1 EMT on board, and there were several MRT's on scene.

Now since neither of these calls were EMS related, this is largely irrelevant, except to illustrate that if the argument is that Darien can not provide such resources (I have no idea if they can or not) the fact still remains that the resources were avalible locally. However EMS qualifications have alwaty been secondary to fire qualifications when relocating for these calls. On the several relocations I have been on, most have not involved going on calls, those that have they have always been fire calls, it is very rare that we get sent on an EMS call while relocated, but that could just be the luck of the draw.

In Darien the fire departments have nothing to do wiht EMS except auto extrication. The police dept. is the first responder agency with Post 53 the transporting agency. There are some members of the Post that have joined the fire departments in town, but they can only act on pt care in that capacity as a member of the Post. Personally I think that the fact that the Darien Depts. do not do first responder calls helps them by not adding additional strain on their resources.

[Guest]

Just to answer the question of the Greenwich response into Stamford the day of the fire and how much personnel came with the machine. Greenwich sent the ladder truck to 1 company which was fully staffed with 4 firefighters and they also sent their on duty deputy chief so they actually sent Stamford 5 career firefighters. And for the stake of knowing the area and first responder issues SFRD added a call back sworn Lieutenant to that machine (our SOG for call backs require 5 men to a call back machine).

So, 5 career men for coverage from Greenwich and SFRD requires a minimum of 1 EMT on a machine (which was covered) and the sowrn officer is a EMS instructor there to teach EMT for the day.

Just wanted to update the board

[jcoppola 52]

If Norwalk Truck 1 or 2 or any NFD unit for that matter goes into another town for coverage, First Responder level of treatment could be administered according to hospital protocols. I think the use of a defib is a different story. We are registered to use the defib in the City of Norwalk by the Norwalk Hospital. If we go to another town, I am not sure that the use of the defib would be ER protocol, however, if a person was having a heart attack WHEREVER, I think any one of us would break out the defib and start analyzing the patient. We are all first responders, weather we like it or not. If we are called, we act, consistently, with our training in mind at all times.

JVC