NYC EMS: Battle of the EMS Badges...Again

[nycemt728 49]

Three FDNY medics were disciplined after they allegedly stopped a better-trained private ambulance crew from aiding a Bronx child who choked on a rubber ball - a rivalry that may have cost critical minutes, sources told the Daily News.

FDNY Medics rapped in boy's death

If it truly happened as the article said, this is really really sad, and embarrassing for EMS! Any thoughts?

[Oswegowind 17]

Ouch, hopefully something is missing...for their sake as well as that of the little boy!

[crcocr1 8]

If the story is factually correct, tts another turf war between an FDNY EMT and private ambulance services, caught in the middle is a child who might have lived if the FDNY EMT realized his or her job is to help the patient NOT his ego.

[OnTheWheel 43]

Simply MORONIC!

[RWC130 594]

As mentioned, If this truly happened as the article said.....

WOW!!!

[Goose 188]

Tragic situation. Appears as though ALS interventions may have made a difference considering the time out on 15V. Was the Lt a conditions boss? If so the two encounters i had with them they were sticklers on following protocol to the "t".

This is definitely not going to forward the position of EMS generally, and especially not in the FDNY. Sad, sad day.

Edited April 25, 2008 by Goose

[Guest feraldan]

How about this comment at the site:

Why does the FDNY have EMTs? Why are there still EMTs? THis makes no sense -- there should only be paramedics. Is the city too cheap to pay for paramedics?

Anyone think there might be a chance that they didn't hear them? Like they were literally pulling away as they knocked?

I can't believe anyone would have *that* big of an ego.. there's got to be more to the story.

[ex-commish 490]

Isn't it protocol to let the medics takeover once they get on scene?

[Guest Engine1]

If this is really the story, they should absolutley be charged with manslaughter. A simple dicipline by FDNY is absolutley unnacceptable. The family should go after FDNY for everytghin the can get, and every member should be ashamed or the actions of their "brothers". Again, if this story is really as accurate as it claims to be.

[smwells 7]

How about this comment at the site:

Anyone think there might be a chance that they didn't hear them? Like they were literally pulling away as they knocked?

I can't believe anyone would have *that* big of an ego.. there's got to be more to the story.

I was not there so I cant be certain, but the FDNY ambulance has windows and the medic didnt show up in a yugo, they showed up in an ambuilance with lots of lights.. If they were knocking on the door I kinda gotta lean towards they ignored them and took off...

[nycemt728 49]

I was not there so I cant be certain, but the FDNY ambulance has windows and the medic didnt show up in a yugo, they showed up in an ambuilance with lots of lights.. If they were knocking on the door I kinda gotta lean towards they ignored them and took off...

I agree totally...9 times out of 10, other crews responding will open the door after banging on it to confirm whether they are needed or not. If that didn't happen, then all three should be fired for being incompetent, b/c anyone who is incapable of seeing or hearing another crew they requested arriving onscene or not checking for them before leaving CAN NOT be trusted to perform the duties of an EMT ( in which observation and being sharp is critcal) and save a life!!

[Guest]

Im shocked that everyone is so fast to find these EMT's guilty. Unless you were there, there are two sides to every story. I thought we were still in America, where you are innocent until proven guilty. Or, does the EMT's being FDNY have any thing to do with the strong feelings involved.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I read this last night and was hoping that somebody posted it. The paper makes it look like when the OLM bus pulled up, the FDNY bus took off. That is messed up if it happened that way. I never worked in the NYC. Did OLM know what was going on or did they just roll up and check? Wasn't there an EMS LT on scene? Did she leave before OLM pulled up? Was she a Medic or EMT? Before you say it I know that you are all EMT's before you become Medics. Can't wait to find out the truth in this matter.

[nycemt728 49]

Im shocked that everyone is so fast to find these EMT's guilty. Unless you were there, there are two sides to every story. I thought we were still in America, where you are innocent until proven guilty. Or, does the EMT's being FDNY have any thing to do with the strong feelings involved.

You need to think before you type...almost everyone one of the posters here tempered their anger/shock about the tracic situation by stating " if that is how it happed"... giving the benefit of the doubt. Second, even though there are several in FDNY who have shown a marked dislike for voluntary hospitals in the system, I would like to think that the strong feelings here are more about the unnecessary loss of life and apparent negligence of three professional trained responders, no matter their affiliation!!

[Goose 188]

I read this last night and was hoping that somebody posted it. The paper makes it look like when the OLM bus pulled up, the FDNY bus took off. That is messed up if it happened that way. I never worked in the NYC. Did OLM know what was going on or did they just roll up and check? Wasn't there an EMS LT on scene? Did she leave before OLM pulled up? Was she a Medic or EMT? Before you say it I know that you are all EMT's before you become Medics. Can't wait to find out the truth in this matter.

According to the way the article was written, it sounds like the FDNY BLS unit asked for the time out on the ALS, and apparently it was "a minute." So, i can only assume that the OLM unit knew what was going on. It sounds as though, again from the article, that the Lt rode in with the BLS crew.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

According to the way the article was written, it sounds like the FDNY BLS unit asked for the time out on the ALS, and apparently it was "a minute." So, i can only assume that the OLM unit knew what was going on. It sounds as though, again from the article, that the Lt rode in with the BLS crew.

I got that out of the article. Why didn't they wait the minute then? What is the status of the EMS LT? I mean what were her qualifications? This is a young boy why not just open the friggin doors?

[ny10570 745]

The article is as usual twisted. The 'FDNY source' is a POS who took this to the paper with incomplete and misleading info. I'm not suggesting covering up something like this, but at least go with the right story. First and foremost this had absolutely nothing to do with FDNY vs OLM or any other voluntary hospital. That s***t goes away real quick when its serious and especially if a kid is involved. I am very familiar with this incident and truth is someone messed up real bad and made a terrible patient care choice. The medics were left literally standing behind the ambulance because someone didn't know that ALS was that kids only chance of survival. The two EMTs working that ambulance are senior guys, one of whom I would trust any day with one of my relatives no questions asked. Since this is an open forum it would be inappropriate for me to give up all the details but once the truth is hashed out hopefully the full blame will end up where it belongs.

Oneeye...the EMS Lt rode in with the crew to the hospital. She is an EMT. "This is a young boy why not just open the friggin doors?" Good question.

Edited April 25, 2008 by ny10570

[Guest]

Thank you NY10570. Im glad someone cleared this up. Seemed to be a lynch mob forming.

[ny10570 745]

Thank you NY10570. Im glad someone cleared this up. Seemed to be a lynch mob forming.

Its understandable. That article does a really good job of making it look like the medics were given the big f you at the expense of a child.

Edited April 25, 2008 by ny10570

[Goose 188]

The article is as usual twisted. The 'FDNY source' is a POS who took this to the paper with incomplete and misleading info. I'm not suggesting covering up something like this, but at least go with the right story. First and foremost this had absolutely nothing to do with FDNY vs OLM or any other voluntary hospital. That s***t goes away real quick when its serious and especially if a kid is involved. I am very familiar with this incident and truth is someone messed up real bad and made a terrible patient care choice. The medics were left literally standing behind the ambulance because someone didn't know that ALS was that kids only chance of survival. The two EMTs working that ambulance are senior guys, one of whom I would trust any day with one of my relatives no questions asked. Since this is an open forum it would be inappropriate for me to give up all the details but once the truth is hashed out hopefully the full blame will end up where it belongs.

Oneeye...the EMS Lt rode in with the crew to the hospital. She is an EMT. "This is a young boy why not just open the friggin doors?" Good question.

So, the article is correct in the fact that the medics were essentially left at the back step of the truck? If these were senior guys wouldn't they know that with ALS a minute out and a 10 minute trek to the ER having those medics on board was vital? Was this the Lts call?

Doesn't really add up to me

[Guest MVFD334]

What I cant understand is why there was no interception with ALS or why there wasnt any communication between the BLS and ALS agency's while in transit. Hopefully when the rest of this story breaks we'll be able to find that out.

[Goose 188]

What I cant understand is why there was no interception with ALS or why there wasnt any communication between the BLS and ALS agency's while in transit. Hopefully when the rest of this story breaks we'll be able to find that out.

Intercepting is a judgment call on behalf of the BLS crew. If whoever was calling the shots couldn't realize that waiting ~60 seconds for ALS to get on board was the proper choice what makes you think they would have bothered to request an intercept?

[Guest feraldan]

I was not there so I cant be certain, but the FDNY ambulance has windows and the medic didnt show up in a yugo, they showed up in an ambuilance with lots of lights.. If they were knocking on the door I kinda gotta lean towards they ignored them and took off...

I can't be certain but I can imagine a situation where two EMT's (even veteran ones) wrapped up in patient care might not notice another unit pull up behind them as they pull away. Again with the assumption that the story in the article was even accurate.

I've seen 20-year career veterans go weak in the knees when dealing with life-threatening incidents involving pediatrics. If the powers that be booted every EMS worker who was temporarily blinded in their career by emotion or stress, there wouldn't be too many left on the streets. It happens, with or without the perfectionist and dare I say totally unrealistic attitude that true professionals don't get involved but keep absolute clinical separation and maintain awareness at all times.

No need to be snide based on something you were not involved with.

That said, if my worst enemy showed up on the back step of my ambulance and I absolutely did NOT need their help, I still wouldn't just pull away without letting them know. It might be unreasonable to think such, but I can't imagine any other paid professional doing the same.

So I definitely cannot see TWO or more professionals doing the same. I have to question whether events happened the way they are stated.

Edited April 26, 2008 by feraldan

[weaselff 6]

What I cant understand is why there was no interception with ALS or why there wasnt any communication between the BLS and ALS agency's while in transit. Hopefully when the rest of this story breaks we'll be able to find that out.

FDNY EMS does not do ALS intercepts. BLS either waits for ALS to arrive or makes the judgement call and transports with a notification to the nearest.

As a former FDNY EMS EMT I am guessing there is more to this story

[ny10570 745]

Intercepts can happen but they;re rare and there is no policy or standard set up for them. Usually once you're rolling ALS is canceled because our transport times are so short. Between stopping for the medic, the assessment, and intervention more often than not you'd be in the ER all ready.

[Guest CRASH]

Well, there will be many many excuses and buck passing on this in the years to come. Bottom line is, its a black eye on the city and now this poor family has to suffer forever without their child.

.

.

God Bless

Edited April 27, 2008 by DOC22
CAPS and Grammar

[Guest MVFD334]

I'm in my previous post, I pass no judgement on those EMTS' on the FDNY crew. My questions where based soley on the experiences in which I have dealt with up here..

[weaselff 6]

I'm in my previous post, I pass no judgement on those EMTS' on the FDNY crew. My questions where based soley on the experiences in which I have dealt with up here..

no problem bro, just wanted to inform people on how things are done in NYC as opposed to the burbs.

[JCESU 20]

Based on what I have read so far in the news article and comments I would have to think this goes a little more past a lapse in judgement regarding pt care. Do the investigation and present it a grand jury.

[Guest paramedico987]

If this is really the story, they should absolutley be charged with manslaughter. A simple dicipline by FDNY is absolutley unnacceptable. The family should go after FDNY for everytghin the can get, and every member should be ashamed or the actions of their "brothers". Again, if this story is really as accurate as it claims to be.

WHOA! I'd almost never want to suggest that someone who came to a situation to help and wasn't able to, regardless of their inexperiance or poor judgement as a responder, but didn't make it any worse should be charged with anything! It sounds like we're all missing a piece or two of information here... and more to the point it sounds like any efforts to save this boy's life would have been fruitless, regardless of level of training right through to a full surgical cricothyroidotomy.

I'd actually be more concerned that the transport hospital was 10 minutes away. That can't be right, cuz I can get from most of Mt. Vernon to Jacobi in 10 minutes. If 621 was the closest, then it was way less than 10 minutes to transport. If there was a 10 minute transport time then THAT needs to be justified... it wasn't snowing was it?