Relocating to another Firehouse Lights or NO lights?

[HFD209 4]

Hartsdale's policy is respond to a relocation is no lights or sirens, but as the rig is alled to the scene or another call.. we respnd code 3

[Shantz02 0]

Some food for thought:

While relocating to New Rochelle Sta. 3 this morning, both Yonkers units, Squad 311 and Ladder 70, responded WITH LIGHTS.

[Oswegowind 17]

Ah, who cares if you crash...when you go mutual aid don't you go on thier insurance??????no really, no lights, no siren...in Yonkers the EMS units are constantly relocating for coverage and that would be a mess if they used their lights to do such...although if you need to get a bite to eat it is okay...

[Guest]

No Lights Because There Is No Need To Risk Injury To Other People For No Reason.

[Guest]

10-20 is PROCEED AT REDUCED SPEED, not respond with caution. You may respond to a true emergency with lights and sirens AT REDUCED SPEED. Weather conditions often require a 10-20 response. Always know specific definitions, you'll be asked about them in court.

[vfd2482 0]

I can't see anyone using lights and siren returning to quarters after an alarm. how is driving back to your own firehouse to park the rig any different than going to park in someone else's house.

[doug_e 0]

The NYS V&T law for emergency lighting use now states that you can use lights while returning from an emergency. I will recheck my info and advise...

[TRUCK6018 50]

The NYS V&T law for emergency lighting use now states that you can use lights while returning from an emergency.

375(41) Colored and flashing lights.

2. Red lights and certain white lights. 

One or more red or combination red and white lights, or one white light which must be a revolving, rotating, flashing, oscillating or constantly moving light, may be affixed to an authorized emergency vehicle, and such lights may be displayed on an authorized emergency vehicle when such vehicle is engaged in an emergency operation, and upon a fire vehicle while returning from an alarm of fire or other emergency.

My question is, why would you want to display the lights while returning?

[doug_e 0]

I'm not saying that someone would want to. All I'm saying is that if you did you'd be legal. However, for me the jury is out as to whether it is safer or not to operate with emergency lighting on.

In reading through the V&T section on emergency lights it states that red and white lights may be displayed during an emergency operation. I would believe that relocation to another firehouse during a fire, on mutual aid, does constitute an "emergency operation".

Additionally it does state expressly that fire vehicles can display lights while returning from an emergency. During inclement weather it might be beneficial to return that way. As stated above I'm not convinced that emergency lighting is more dangerous.

[TRUCK6018 50]

During inclement weather it might be beneficial to return that way. As stated above I'm not convinced that emergency lighting is more dangerous.

Why would it be more beneficial? Does this mean it is not safe to drive other vehicles in inclimate weather? From a small compact car, to a tractor trailer, all vehicles have the same DOT lighting requirements. An emergency vehicle has the same lighting requirements as the above.

In my opinion, emergency lighting is an unneeded hazard while returning to quarters or responding to a backfill. If you're stopped at a red light, with your emergency lighting on, you will confuse the general public. If you are returning to quarters with the lights on and someone in front of you pulls over, you could be forced unessesaraly into the uncoming lane. If this is done on a blind curve, the danger is magnified. Responding to a backfill may be a "emergency" operation, but, it doesn't not constitute a true emergency.

The two main fire department insurance carriers (VFBL and ESIP) both recommend using your emergency lighting only while responding to true emergencies. If a water condition (pump out) doesn't cut it, backfilling and returning to quarters won't.

Back in the early '90's, a contigent of fire departments from Westchester responded to Northern New York State (Platsburgh area) to a major ice storm. This was an emergency operation. No one responded with emergency lights on. It wasn't nessesary. Once we were staged in our respective areas, no one responded to the "routine" (pump outs, wires calls, and welfare checks) calls those days with lights or sirens. It wasn't nessasary. Traveling with anywhere upward of six + inches of solid ice on the roads, no one was going anywhere in a hurry anyway.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Beneficial in bad weather how? To confuse other drivers while your stopped at a red light, causing rebound accidents and desensitizing motorist to the lights? If visibility is an issue, then you need more marker lights, in some weather cases you have shut down emergency lighting due to the reflection of it off fog and heavy snow.

10-20 is a stupid 10 code period. If you can 10-20 you can continue in with no lights/siren. I always proceed with caution and a reduced speed that considers every factor, time, weather, safety, traffic etc.

[Guest]

As for 10-20, I only meant to point out that there are those who are confused about it's definition. 5 miles per hour below a posted speed limit seems to be a 10-20 situation, but there is no prohibition against lights and sirens. Proceed with caution is a specific order given by the OIC and can be confusing to some. If I am ordered to proceed with caution, I consider it an order to obey V&T to the letter. If ordered to 10-20, I just slow down.

[Guest]

As for 10-20, I only meant to point out that there are those who are confused about it's definition. 5 miles per hour below a posted speed limit seems to be a 10-20 situation, but there is no prohibition against lights and sirens. Proceed with caution is a specific order given by the OIC and can be confusing to some. If I am ordered to proceed with caution, I consider it an order to obey V&T to the letter. If ordered to 10-20, I just slow down.

You need to take NYS Evoc course. When an officer says respond with caution, if you think about that , its stupid!, You should always respond with caution. Your Dept. should have rules and regulations regarding responding. Before a lawyer gets involved after someone gets in a accident, responding to alarms. Lawyers love to get people on words alone, the word caution means alot of different things to alot of different people=especially lawyers

#-o #-o

[ems-buff 81]

Good topic!     

Relocations / Stand-By's are NOT Emergencies!

You should respond NO LIGHTS / NO SIREN!

"Normal Driving Mode" 

This is for FIRE and EMS Emergency Vehicles.

i got a question when was the last time you saw an ambulance relocatied so another ambulance bay???? #-o #-o #-o

[JohnnyOV 2]

YVAC relocated an ambulance to peekskill one night when they were hammered with calls

[Guest]

Relocating with lights/siren puts the apparatus and the driving public at unnecessary risk.

No lights/no siren when relocating. The unit can be dispatched by radio while in transit- just no reason for noise and lights.

[hudson144 150]

a few years back i took a class taught by Lt Mike Wilbur (FDNY 27 Truck) about this topic-it was a very informative class with some past incidents used as examples of why you should not respond (running red) to relocate-in one case which happened upstate ny where I believe where Lt Wilbur may live a compnay was relocating to another community and the were "running red", the apparatus broad sided a POV with kids in it IFO an amusement park and I can't recall if people died or not bad the outcome was not good. Its unfortunate that alot of depts. still run red for non-emergency calls and yes it is a tough call sometimes on what is and what is not an emergecy,sometimes its damned if you do and damned if you don't! In the community that I live in I always see Empire state ambulance running red going to do non-emergency transports-one night I cfollowed them to the health care facility to see if they were actually on an emergency and they weren't. normally I wouldn't care but the JACK*** driving cut me off ! be safe!