No More Brooklyn CO?

[x635 4,066]

Just read a posting on another forum- FDNY's Brooklyn Communications office is closing tonight, and all dispatchers are to report to Queens CO tommorow AM.

Is this for good, or for "renovation"??

[IzzyEng4 427]

I had heard that Brooklyn was going to move into Metro-Tech. Has Frank Raffa posted anything yet?

[ny10570 745]

As part of NYC's emergency services communications consolidation sham Fire, PD, and EMS communications are being consolidated into two facilities. There are plans for a new facility somewhere in the Bronx within the next few years and the Brooklyn facility is either all ready built or going to be placed in a renovated Brooklyn CO. There was a new communications center built recently but I'm not sure if thats for this mess or NYC OEM. Out of many down sides hopefully this will result in a single CRO position that can handle PD, EMS, and Fire calls that can then be dispatched by PD, EMS, or Fire Dispatchers instead of this game of 20 questions that every caller has to play.

Brooklyn is now in Queens and eventually I believe Manhattan will go North to the Bronx.

Edited June 4, 2008 by ny10570

[JBE 328]

OK, here's the deal. Brooklyn is moving to Queens PERMANENTLY starting tomorrow. There will be a skeleton crew left over to maintain the circuits, handle ERS alarms till that gets cut over, and work the Voice Alarm as well. EMS will be moving into the Brooklyn CO when the building is finished. As far as Manhattan is concerned, nobody knows where they are going right now. They are either moving up north to the Bronx or heading to 11 Metrotech in the PSAC that they are building there. Ground hasn't even been broken for PSAC 2, which is going to be somewhere along the Hutch on Waters Place. The Bronx CO has been renovated, there are a few things that need to be finished, and is set up for the Bronx and Manhattan. The Queens CO is set up for three boroughs, and believe me, working there is an absolute NIGHTMARE!!! I've worked there about ten times since they moved back in last year, and it was definitely renovated with no input from the rank and file guys who have to work there everyday.

I don't forsee Staten Island leaving Slosson Avenue anytime soon. Too much political pull and pressure out there. Universal Call Takers is something the Mayor is a big proponent of, and unfortunately, it doesn't seem like enough has been done to make him realize that it's not going to be an advantageous proposition. Aside from the fact that you shouldn't put your eggs in one basket(obviously nothing was learned from 7WTC) and that what may work in some of the cities that NYC looked at as models, may not necessarily work here. I'm not going to rant anymore, but I can say that after 11 years, the job I loved has turned into a sinking ship of an FS, and I'm truly disgusted with a lot of what I am seeing.

10570, Universal Call Takers, IMHO, are NOT going to work. Biggest reason, burnout. 911 handles over 3 million calls a year, and to add on more responsibilties and learning proper coding for incidents on all three sides, I personally feel is too much to handle. It's much better for us, to have 911 answer the call, get the borough it's in and transfer it to FD, no questons asked by the NYPD ACD, so if I have a concern or question, I can go right to my calltaker as opposed to calling somewhere else to get that information. Playing 20 Questions?? Have you listened to some of the people we have to interrogate?? I'm not just talking about folks with a limited command of the English language, I'm talking about people in general. Believe me, I could go on for a week about it.

As far as consolidation is concerned, if they wanted to move EMS in with FDNY Dispatchers, I wouldn't have a problem with it, so long as EMS played by our rules. Renovate what we have, move Manhattan into the Bronx, away from the terror target that is 11 Metrotech, and leave things alone. PS get me a CAD that isn't running on software and hardware developed when I and 75% of the present FDNY Fire Alarm Dispatchers were either toddlers, in diapers, or twinkes in the eyes of their parents.

Edited June 4, 2008 by JBE

[engine968 8]

Thanks for a very interesting FDNY update. I had no idea such big changes were in the works. One cautionary note: Don't be too quick to knock the older software. The Nassau County Firecom center where I work is still running on an old DOS program from 1990 that works pretty well. It doesn't do everything we would like, but it is generally accurate and reliable. And it's far better than the new Intergraph map-based system that the Nassau County Police put into service last year. That system has been a disaster since day one.

[Guest WCDES636]

Thanks for a very interesting FDNY update. I had no idea such big changes were in the works. One cautionary note: Don't be too quick to knock the older software. The Nassau County Firecom center where I work is still running on an old DOS program from 1990 that works pretty well. It doesn't do everything we would like, but it is generally accurate and reliable. And it's far better than the new Intergraph map-based system that the Nassau County Police put into service last year. That system has been a disaster since day one.

Intergraph a disaster? Wow, must be something very wrong. We use it in Westchester and it adapts pretty well. Very versitile.

JBE sorry you have to make a change. But bosses always think they know what's best. Why else would they be bosses????

Good luck.

[IzzyEng4 427]

JBE thanks for the information and as a dispatcher also I totally agree with you. We have a city that is 3 million+ full of residents and they want only one 911 call taker center? That's nutz burnout will happen too fast because they won't be properly staffed.

Hope everything works out for the best man.

[mfc2257 464]

Intergraph a disaster? Wow, must be something very wrong. We use it in Westchester and it adapts pretty well. Very versitile.

JBE sorry you have to make a change. But bosses always think they know what's best. Why else would they be bosses????

Good luck.

Just curious, not a knock (yet), if Intergraph is so adaptable and versitile, then why (as of the time that I departed from WC in 2005) do the response territories (what I would typically call a box area) for departments appear to be set up by EMS response and not by fire response. When I was trying to implement a box system and alarm assignment structure to put in the CAD for Millwood in '03-'04 I was given a map of Millwood's territory to work with. There were response areas blocked out and I was told, "that's whats in the CAD and EMS got set up first so we have to live with it." So when I wanted to break the boxes out by hydrant vs. non hydrant and commercial versus not I couldn't because the EMS territories don't give consideration to fire related variables.

Thoughts?

Also, why has the Quint designation been eliminated. Why is there no Engine-Tanker, and Engine-Rescue designation so that apparatus are being appropriately labeled according to their capabilities. Are all the so called ladders in the county carrying the full NFPA mandate of ground ladders... I doubt it. Yet they are still being called Ladders when in reality they should be Quints or Engines.

I feel like these are the things that the system should be taking into account.

Edited June 4, 2008 by mfc2257

[JBE 328]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not neccesarily knocking the Starfire computer system. However, it could use an overhaul. I'm receptive to change, but not change that I feel is either going to hinder the operation at large, or make simple things more difficult. My biggest concern right now is the eggs in one basket approach, and the lack of my Union leadership to take a stand against Mayor Bloomberg and his cronies.

Edited June 4, 2008 by JBE

[ny10570 745]

Yeah, the fine citizens of NYC don't have the greatest grasp on English or for that matter sense making obtaining reliable information difficult at best. You definitely still need service specific CRO's for further interview, first aid instructions, evacuation instructions, etc. But this mess of PD CRO's with no real training in EMS or Fire just doesn't work. So many callers don't stay on the line through the call transfer (I'd say at least half of my most serious call types are based on what PD has) we end up chasing much more BS, sends CFR's chasing garbage, and it has absolutely resulted in injury and probably has caused some deaths. At the very least a universal CRO could be given a simple algorithm that could establish a call type before transferring it the appropriate agency. Instead of "Send an ambulance! He's not Breathing!" getting CFR, ALS, and BLS when it was just a simple seizure and only needed the BLS.

[JBE 328]

That's one of the reasons I am also an advocate of FD, EMS, and PD Specific phone numbers as well. Dial 711 for FD, 811 for EMS, 911 for PD. Once we get the mapping programs up and running, I think that would make things run a little more smoothly. Pipe dream maybe. But it's a thought.

I'm just not too keen on this whole consolidation thing. Seems like the city is the only ones that want it. The gist I'm getting from a few of my colleagues is that EMS doesn't want it, and PD doesn't either.

[helicopper 1,050]

That's one of the reasons I am also an advocate of FD, EMS, and PD Specific phone numbers as well. Dial 711 for FD, 811 for EMS, 911 for PD. Once we get the mapping programs up and running, I think that would make things run a little more smoothly. Pipe dream maybe. But it's a thought.

In reality wouldn't that just triple the call volume by having duplicate and triplicate assignments?

One person sees an accident and calls 911 to report it - the police respond, notifying fire and EMS.

Another person sees the same accident, calls 811 because they think someone is hurt and by giving a slightly different location generate a completely different response.

The third person dials 711 and you see where I'm going...

We NEED a SINGLE point of access into the emergency services system and the US has chosen 911 (Personally I like 999 like the UK since we have 914 and 917 in our area and they are responsible for the lion's share of the erroneous calls but that's another issue).

Once into the system, there are any number of ways to route the call and interrogate the caller. I'd rather see a mailbox system, press 1 for fire, 2 for EMS, 3 for police once you call into 911 than three different numbers.

If the call center is understaffed or overworked that's not a failure of the NUMBER, it's a failure of the system! IMHO

[Dr. Zuki 1]

The Bronx location on Waters Place is an office complex located right next to the Hutch southbound below Pelham Pkwy.

It used to be Bronx Psychiatric Center and now houses Mercy College and some other office tenants with two new medium height buildings being planned.

Office jobs are long, long overdue in the Bronx, and with cheap rents, this project will fly.

Dr. Zuki

Lawrence Hospital

[SteveOFD 176]

Just an FYI for those who haven't heard yet FDNY is in the process of building two new UHF Radio Systems. For info see the thread at RadioReference.com and RadioReference.com FDNY testing.

Edited June 5, 2008 by SteveOFD

[Guest WCDES636]

Just curious, not a knock (yet), if Intergraph is so adaptable and versitile, then why (as of the time that I departed from WC in 2005) do the response territories (what I would typically call a box area) for departments appear to be set up by EMS response and not by fire response. When I was trying to implement a box system and alarm assignment structure to put in the CAD for Millwood in '03-'04 I was given a map of Millwood's territory to work with. There were response areas blocked out and I was told, "that's whats in the CAD and EMS got set up first so we have to live with it." So when I wanted to break the boxes out by hydrant vs. non hydrant and commercial versus not I couldn't because the EMS territories don't give consideration to fire related variables.

Thoughts?

I dont know what you were told. But all of the things you mention are being done today, by the very same software. Just remeber I am and end user. My opinion is on how it works for dispatch. From what I have seen of othe CAD systems. Intergraph by far is on top.

BTW: Bedford Hills is set up the same as you describe above, and has been for several years.

Edited June 5, 2008 by WCDES636

[JBE 328]

Chris, it wouldn't necessarily send out triplicate assignments. I guess I've become a little jaded at the fact that if I hear a location, I can tell if it's a duplicate or not. I'd like to see the mailbox thing as well, in an either or fashion. Anything better than what we have. I dunno if PD would let that fly, it could cost them money and jobs. Dr. Zuki, the only people staffing this office will be people already on the job or being hired later on. The construction workers and contractors will do well.

[ny10570 745]

Chris how would the mailbox system be any different than calling each number directly for creating call volume? As it is, multiple callers calling the same number depending on how they describe the call and where they describe it you can get the same multiple responses generated. Often its a heads-up dispatcher that sees the similarities and consolidates it. Thats the biggest loss with consolidation. Dispatchers will no longer have the chance to learn the intricacies of their areas. The 678, 278, 95, 695, 295, and Hutch spaghetti pile or the difference between similar streets like boyton and bolton ave are problems that someone needs to deal with on a regular basis. The city is far too large for one person to learn everything they need to know, one borough is bad enough.

Bronx State is still there taking up space in all its glory. The Hutchison Center that is springing up between Waters Place and the Hutch is a new development being built on pristine Bronx swamp.

[JBE 328]

And with this new wonderful dispatch policy of releasing the run before all the info is taken, it's only a matter of time before some probie mistakes Watson Avenue from Washington Avenue and 19 Truck gets sent out to an incorrect location and 54 Truck sits in the firehouse. Oh, wait, that's already happened.

[ny10570 745]

Eventually it'll kill a rich white woman or a half dozen kids and then the "right" people will care. Until then good luck.

[JBE 328]

If anyone has been listening to Brooklyn radio recently and noticed a sharp decline in the volume, that's the new radios. Modern technology at it's finest.