NYPD question

[Billy 68]

OK. I'll try to explain this question. My wife works in Manhattan and has described to me what she and her co-workers respectfully call a "police parade." I witnessed one of these myself near Times Square on Monday.

It is a line of at least 8 marked units some with lights and sirens on that pull up and park along a street and then stay there for a while. Some of the PO's stay in the car, some get out and stand outside. Eventually, they all move on with lights and sirens as if they are in a escort but there is no apparent escort vehicle. She says this happens almost every day.

My first guess was an escort for a dignitary or something like that, but that doesn't seem to be right. My other guess was just a kind of "show of force" as part of maybe an anti terror task force or mobilization. These do seem to take place in Times Square, Rockefeller Center etc..

Any NYPD members out there that can explain what this is?

[ny10570 745]

You're spot on Billy its a show of force drill. You can also find them ripping along the FDR or West side Highway.

[helicopper 1,050]

They do random drills (some larger than others) and also random "deterrence patrols" where they show up just as you described. They're a big part of the city's counter-terrorism effort.

If anybody was doing surveillance, they'd be hard pressed to figure out where or when these patrols are going to show up!

[Billy 68]

They do random drills (some larger than others) and also random "deterrence patrols" where they show up just as you described. They're a big part of the city's counter-terrorism effort.

If anybody was doing surveillance, they'd be hard pressed to figure out where or when these patrols are going to show up!

Somehow I knew you would have a response for me The only thing to me though is it just seems like a huge commitment to valuable resources. Do you think it's worth it? When I saw this on Monday, there were two separate details; one on seventh avenue in Times Square that wasn't moving and another that was moving East on 42nd street, both at the same time.

[Guest]

The only thing to me though is it just seems like a huge commitment to valuable resources. Do you think it's worth it?

My son in law is NYPD, and yes, it most certainly is worth it. Keeps everyone on their toes.

[Monty 35]

I'm not in LE, so I may certainly be missing something. But .... I'm not sure what it proves? I've seen 30+ cars on 6th ave before. Certainly makes a lot of noise and looks pretty. I'm sure its good PR and for Joe Public a nice 'feel good' thing - like something is happening.

However, if something bad was being planned - wouldn't you just push it back if you caught wind this was happening? I don't know what radio comms there are and how easy it is to know where these are happening. Is part of the purpose to practice getting 50 LEO's to a scene quickly? Has it been useful at any emergencies (Con-Ed steam break? Crane Collapses?)?

Just my personal thoughts ..... definitely better than doing nothing.

Bryan.

[Guest]

It's called a CRV Surge Drill. They take one RMP (Police car) from each command around the city to participate.

[Billy 68]

It's called a CRV Surge Drill. They take one RMP (Police car) from each command around the city to participate.

What does CRV stand for?

[JJB531 652]

What does CRV stand for?

Critical Response Vehicle... one marked police car from each precinct stages at various points in NYC at different times/sensitive locations to act as a counter-terrorism measure... basically sends the message to any potential terrorist that you don't know where and when we're gonna show up at a location to interrupt your surveillance or planning... already proved useful when terrorists attempted a plot to detonate an explosive on the Brooklyn Bridge... their surveillance man said the area was too hot to conduct any kind of terrorist act...

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I see them more often then one would think. I would see several a day when I was working in the Bronx. I would see about 10-15 cars lights and sirens just circling around Fordham Plaza.

[helicopper 1,050]

Somehow I knew you would have a response for me The only thing to me though is it just seems like a huge commitment to valuable resources. Do you think it's worth it? When I saw this on Monday, there were two separate details; one on seventh avenue in Times Square that wasn't moving and another that was moving East on 42nd street, both at the same time.

But of course!

As for the value, another post nails the point - if someone is planning something and the PD keeps showing up, randomly and in force, they will move elsewhere (hopefully somewhere far away!). As for valuable resources, that's why the city has 37,000 cops and hundreds of millions in DHS grants - to prevent another attack. It is an excellent use of resources since you can't put an ESU truck at every high profile location all the time.

In addition to the CRV mobilizations, they still have Hercules and Archangel teams out there doing much the same thing too right?

[ny10570 745]

I never understood the effectiveness of these drills or the patrolling hercules and archangel teams. The legit terrorists are not stupid. They plan thoroughly and wait for the opportune moment. It doesn't take long to realize that these show of force drills don't do much more than drive around so they really are not a threat. One shows up, stop, stay in position and after a few minutes they move on. The hercules and archangel teams are highly visible and located in specific high density or high value areas. Thats great and all, but Terrorists in this country and abroad usually prepare at one location and then travel to their target. What good are on of these teams patrolling Manhattan stations in the bomb was put on the subway out in Coney and timed to go off when it arrives in Manhattan? So now something does happen, these teams of highly trained well armed officers now have to be contacted (not always easy in the subways) gathered and transported to the scene. These are all put in place to make the average idiot out there feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I'm safe because we have men with big guns to protect us against this threat. Lets not forget the officer parked in the car day in and day out on the Brooklyn Bridge, by the UN, and many other places around Manhattan. You try staying vigilant sitting on your butt for hours at a clip. Besides, these guys can't see anything more than what is immediately around them since they are just parked and cannot patrol. We have cameras all over the city, if they need a few more to cover every point of access to these high value areas then put them up and free these officers up to actually serve the city. Put more plain clothes officers out there to ride the subways if you want to protect people.

My reference to legit terrorists is because clowns like the ones who wanted to attack ft dix and the idiots that had planned to blow up the tank farms and pipelines do not pose a real threat. Their roadrunner like schemes would be doomed to fail if they were even able to get them off the ground, which doesn't happen because solid police work shuts them down long before show of force drills or hercules teams come into play.

[Scottyk107 9]

I think that it is good to kind of flex your power but as stated it can only deter certain things. When was the last time terrorist just went some where and started shooting? WTC in 93' was a bomb, and in 01' were planes neither of which could be prevented by these patrols. What are the liabilities of going lights and sirens with no real threat? Seems like a liability to me. If they have the resources im all for it but if you driving up the highway and see one of these "parades" in you rear view mirror and try to slam over 3 lanes of traffic to let them by, it may be more harm than good.

[Guest Chiefmcfuz]

Hey don't you think there might be a possible security problem with this thread? If I were to Google CRV I am sure the explanations here would help me plan something. Why not leave it a mystery, I mean c'mon people some things are better kept private.

[helicopper 1,050]

Hey don't you think there might be a possible security problem with this thread? If I were to Google CRV I am sure the explanations here would help me plan something. Why not leave it a mystery, I mean c'mon people some things are better kept private.

The City publicizes these activities and there's no big secret about them. The ones they don't want us to know about we don't know about. If a terrorist is using this site as his source of information, we're gonna win the war!

[Guest]

You can already find all this info via google.

[JJB531 652]

The City publicizes these activities and there's no big secret about them. The ones they don't want us to know about we don't know about. If a terrorist is using this site as his source of information, we're gonna win the war!

Exactly right Chris... CRV, Operation Torch, and the Hercules teams are the Mayor's and PC's bragging rights every time they talk about NYC's war on terror to the press... no secrets there... the Mayor loves to brag that crime reductions and the war on terror are all his doing...

[Guest EFFP411]

Here's a good video, check out the amount of cruisers they had rolling this day!

[Guest WCDES636]

Maybe the terrorist that monitor this site will make donations.

[JJB531 652]

Maybe the terrorist that monitor this site will make donations.

Funny... just don't accept Iraqi Dinar as a donation.... 1 Iraqi Dinar is only equal to 0.0008488 US Dollars....

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Hey don't you think there might be a possible security problem with this thread? If I were to Google CRV I am sure the explanations here would help me plan something. Why not leave it a mystery, I mean c'mon people some things are better kept private.

With oil shooting through $140 a barrel and no end in site, I think the bigger threat to these show of force displays will be penny pinching Mayor Bloomberg saying NYPD can no longer continue them because of the gasoline consumption; rather than a link to emtbravo showing up on Al Jazeera or some jihadi website.

FYI: Just in case anybody is thinking that because there have been no attacks here in the United States since 9/11, NYPD can start relaxing their vigilance, or scaling back on exercises such as these CRVs, here's an interesting fact;

Since 9/11 there have been 11,342 terrorist attacks around the world carried out by Islamic jihadis. The count for May 2008 alone;

Monthly Jihad Report

May 2008 Jihad Attacks: 157

Countries: 18

Religions: 5

Dead Bodies: 653

Critically Injured: 1083

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Even though we are fortunate (thanks to our troops, the NYPD and the Feds among others) that no successful attack has been carried out on the Motherland since 9/11, the war rages around the world. Jihadis are more determined than ever to hit us again, and are constantly planning to do so. I think some of the recent comments out of OPEC (that oil was going to $170) and Libya announcing plans to cut back on oil production, show that even Heads of State for some of these Arab oil producing countries are waging "economic jihad" against the United States. In Nigeria the jihadis are attacking oil installations. They have finally figured out they may be able to cripple us using nothing more than "Black Gold."

[efdcapt115 1,511]

A bit off topic, but IMHO relevant nonetheless:

Have any of you thought about the morbid irony of the report that an Arab Sovereign Wealth Fund is trying to obtain majority ownership in one of New York's most beloved skyscrapers?

Here's one building NYPD can probably take off of the "high priority targets" list.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06112008/busin...lock_115016.htm

[Guest Chiefmcfuz]

I can't wait. 10 more years to go as of today not counting my terminal leave.

[grumpyff 1,159]

I can't wait. 10 more years to go as of today not counting my terminal leave.

I HEAR YOU ON THAT!!! HIRED 08/31/98

Edited July 1, 2008 by grumpyff

[Guest Chiefmcfuz]

Grumpy you are B or C squad? Took away A Squads Chart days and weekends off away. But thanks for the 3 day swings LOL

Efdcapt, with all due respect this is where people who know nothing about NYC should keep their statements to themselves.

In NYC we're vested at 5.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Grumpy you are B or C squad? Took away A Squads Chart days and weekends off away. But thanks for the 3 day swings LOL

Efdcapt, with all due respect this is where people who know nothing about NYC should keep their statements to themselves.

In NYC we're vested at 5.

I had no idea you worked for the NYPD. Your statement is rude, so I'll take mine back; with all due respect Officer.

[texastom791 31]

from those videos on youtube it looks like a big waste of resources

[Oswegowind 17]

I disagree with Tx. I believe that we have to continue to be vigilant and proactive! Kudos to the NYPD for their continued high visibility patrols that do deter not only terrorism but basic crime. You never know if one of these accidentally deterred bank robbers or other thieves or criminals by just showing up somewhere as something was going down. They may not yield big deal arrests or crack down on quality of life crimes but they do just what they are supposed to do! Or would you guys rather wait til they blow something up and then we can just react again?

[Guest Chiefmcfuz]

I had no idea you worked for the NYPD. Your statement is rude, so I'll take mine back; with all due respect Officer.

It is better to remain silent, than speak and remove all doubt.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Chiefmcfuz

[grumpyff 1,159]

B squad 98-37.

The CRV often seems like a waste, but it does provide a show of force that can arrive at random times and places that may throw off planning or an attack. such as the planned bombing of the subway at 34 street/6 avenue. The terrorists had mentioned the area was "too hot" in reference to the number of police officers in the area.