FDNY Medical Response Causes Fire Fatality, UFA&Citizen

[x635 4,066]

BRAVEST FIRE BACK

By SUSAN EDELMAN

New York Post

December 26, 2004 -- Firefighters and a Bronx dad say wasted minutes in getting water to a house fire — in part because the closest engine company was needlessly called to a nursing home — was a fatal delay for the father's two children.

Firefighters contend it took about eight deadly minutes after their brethren ran into the burning home of Sam and Selena Sanclemente on Nov. 26 before water could be pumped in by Engine Company trucks to aid their rescue.

Now, with his two children dead and his wife in critical condition, Sam Sanclemente plans to sue the city — and fight what he calls a dangerous system that diverts firefighters to minor medical emergencies.

Firefighters agreed they might have saved the kids if not for the delay. "It could have been a whole different outcome with water," a firefighter said.

The first water truck in line to respond to the fire was tied up at a nursing home, where an 88-year- old woman was found dead in bed — "an absolute waste of time," said Peter Gorman, president of the Uniformed Fire Officers Association.

The next-closest engine company was also delayed, due to a false alarm, officials said.

Firefighters described a hellish struggle inside the Kingsbridge Terrace duplex as they penetrated a wall of flames and hunted for the trapped kids through thick smoke. "I was burning, and I knew the little girl was burning," one firefighter said of 2-year-old Sachiel Sanclemente, who was found in a hallway and carried out a window. She died later that night.

Her brother, Sam Jr., 10, was invisible in the haze, firefighters said. He was found dead in a bedroom.

Now Sanclemente, 35, says he wants to start a petition against a 10-year-old city program that forces firefighters to respond to sometimes minor medical calls. "I will fight this with all my might so this never happens to anybody else," he told The Post.

His lawyer, Alan Ripka, said he plans to file a notice of claim against the city this week, the first step before a lawsuit.

FDNY spokesman Frank Gribbon blasted firefighters who he said convinced Sanclemente that the "First Responder" program is partly to blame for his kids'

deaths. "They're Monday-morning quarterbacking here. It's a disgrace," he said.

FDNY spokesman Paul Iannizzotto said dispatch records show the first phone call reporting the fire came in at 7:47 a.m. Ladder 46, in the closest firehouse on Bailey Avenue, was dispatched at 7:50 a.m., he said.

Companion Engine Co. 81 had been sent at 7:37 a.m. to the Kingsbridge Heights Nursing Home on Cannon Place on a report of cardiac arrest. The elderly woman was already dead when the company arrived.

Nursing-home officials did not return calls for comment yesterday.

[Truck4 48]

And just days after the report was released that fire deaths in the city are at a 40 year low. Hmmmm....

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Just another reason why I say:

If your going to do it, do it right.

So the 2nd due being on a false alarm wasn't the problem, the D.O.A. they went to was. What a joke. No disrespect to the dept. named, or my friends whom I've discussed this with who work there, but the fact that the UFOA was one that made a statement shows why the system will never work, it all starts from the top when it comes to running the show.

[JBE 328]

This is a double edged sword. The CFR system is flawed, this is true. It should be reformed, and should have been years ago. It also depends on how EMS or PD puts the alarm into the system. A possible DOA comes in as an arrest so it's a high priority. This is one of those sad situations that the first in engine was tied up at an EMS run, and missed a fire first due, with dire consequences. However, as flawed as the system is, without the EMS runs, there would have been more than just six engine companies shut down. It's obvious the system needs to be fixed, only time will tell if it can be fixed before the next tragedy.

[Guest]

Exactly what I was going to say JBE. It all comes back to the ignorance of the people who call the 911 system. So when chronic abusers realize the ambulance gets there 10 minutes faster when they say they are having chest pains or difficulty breathing, they dont hesitate to do that. Then you get an als, maybe a bls, a firetruck, and an rmp. Seven to ten people standing in your apartment when you say you have this pain in your stomach for two days, and your too cheap to take a cab. JBE said it best. Unfortunately you can't tell these people that "no, your ok, you dont need to go to the hospital" over the phone. What should be done is that they should be given a ticket for filing a false report with 911 and tying up city resources. They just don't care until it happens to them, no matter what, when you work for New York City, your always on the short end of the stick with the public.

[Truck4 48]

The problems with the first responder program should be handled in house and not brought to light by manipulating a man who lost his kids. What if the first due company was at the supermarket picking up the meal, like in Jeresy a few years ago, and were delayed? The FDNY has a problem with it's union leaders. They make the rank and file look bad with poor decision after poor decision. Do you think it's coincidence that this story comes out just days after the fire death numbers are released? The facts are that the first engine at the job was on scene within the "average" response time. E-81, who was at the medical run, also responded to the job 3rd due. The father is now hitting the city with a lawsuit and the fire union thinks it's ok to ride on his coattails for thier own gain. They have supplied him with information not readily available to joe public, but tainted it to fit thier own means. There are more respectful and professional ways to do this. And to be quoted in the paper as saying the response to the arrest in the nursing home was "a waste of time" is also disgusting. Would you like to tell the family of the dead woman that she was a "waste of time?" Well you just did. As much as you think it was, how would you like to hear that from the first responder who was called to your mother's death??? The FDNY Union is an embarassment to the real firefighters in the city.

[tbendick 27]

This lawsuit could also come back in hit the FF's in the a**.

If they say that they shouldn't have been at the nursing home because the nursing home has Defibs and trained people at or higher then the CFR-D Level then the issue could change.

"In response to needless calls, the FDNY devised a procedure to remove such facilities from its response system, Gribbon said. A removal is requested by the local firehouse and approved by headquarters."

So if they run a report on the address and see that the company has been there on a few occasions and never filed paperwork to have it removed from the CFR-D program then who's fault is it?

"Since it started 10 years ago, the "First Responder" program has repeatedly sent fire engines racing to nursing homes that call 911 "because they don't want to pay for an ambulance,"

Nursing homes know very well that they have to pay, They all have contracts and all know that any ambulance is going to cost.

[WAS967 97]

http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=1&subtopicin

tid=1&contentintid=46561://http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/Su...tentintid=46561

Bronx Father To Sue FDNY Over Deaths Of Two Children

DECEMBER 27TH, 2004

A Bronx father is blaming the FDNY for the deaths of his two children in a

house fire last month.

Sam Sanclemente says the Fire Department wasted valuable minutes getting to

the blaze that killed his children and left his wife in critical condition

on November 26th. The grieving father said Monday he plans to file a lawsuit

against the FDNY.

The Fire Department says the first unit arrived at the scene of the blaze

four minutes after the call came in, but Sanclemente and his lawyers contend

firefighters from the closest engine company were instead at a nursing home

where an 88-year-old woman was found dead in bed, and the next closest

engine was answering a false alarm at the time the call came in.

Fire Department sources say both companies arrived at the same time, but the

engine failed to alert dispatch. As a result, there is no record of the

engine ever being at the scene.

Firefighters say by the time they got to the burning duplex, 10-year-old Sam

Sanclemente Jr. was dead, and 2-year-old Sachiel died later that night.

"The firefighters are to fight fires, not to get somebody's call that they

cut a finger, or they fell, or they broke their knee. You've got ambulances

for that," said Sanclemente.

"If their children's deaths have any meaning in life whatsoever, they stop

another meaningless death," said Alan Ripka, Sancelemente's attorney.

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

Quick question. Why is it that the first responder program in California (LA or LA Co) and other cities workes and FDNY seems to be having so much trouble with getting theirs on track? I know a few reasons. But what do you all think?

[tbendick 27]

"If their children's deaths have any meaning in life whatsoever, they stop 

another meaningless death," said Alan Ripka, Sancelemente's attorney.

Now lets look at this again....

What about the person who is in Cardiac Arrest and needs a Defib to save her life. Wouldn't that be a meaningless death if the FF's didn't respond when she could have been saved? So are we saving one life is more important then the next?

[MH0109 1]

In response to CommandChief. I think the First response system works better in the aboved mentioned departments as well as my dept in Colorado because we are all crosstrained in fire supression. We are Firefighter/Emt`s or Firefighter/Paramedics.We are all one agency not envolved it what some might call a hostile takeover like the FDNY system. In My Dept we have Medics on our fire supression rigs Engines/Quint and staff ambulance with medics also. I know a couple of guy`s from LA and they too are firefigters. My dept guidline is ALS first response and we staff our rigs to meet this as much as staffing permits. I think this is why it works. We have two stations that have the ambulance in house and we train all together. I am not sure what other people think but I think this is why it works in some places and not others. I hope for all involved it get`s better for the citizens we are all sworn to protect. This is a sad thing and it seems that there was a death on both responses the medical and the fire.