Police use excessive force, ER docs say

[Guest]

Police use excessive force, ER docs say

12-24-08

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – In a survey of a random sample of U.S. emergency physicians, virtually all said they believed that law enforcement officers use excessive force to arrest and detain suspects.

The sample included 315 respondents. While 99.8 percent believed excessive force is used, almost as many (97.8 percent) reported that they had managed cases that they suspected or that the patient stated had involved excessive use of force by law enforcement officers.

FULL STORY: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081224/hl_nm/us_police_er

[helicopper 1,050]

And these physicians consider "handcuffs being on too tight" as excessive force.

I just wonder what they base their speculation on? Almost all of those surveyed concede that they have no formal training on the subject and I'm willing to bet that they've never been involved in LE training or received education on just how combative a drugged suspect can be.

What do you do when the amount of force necessary to overcome physical resistance requires you to strike the subject? Stop and let them go?

Sounds like an absurd study but I'm reserving judgment until I read it in January. The bleeding hearts are going to have a field day with this one...

Meanwhile, a survey of law enforcement officers found that 99.8% of ER physicians take entirely too long to get to them or their suspect patients when seeking treatment.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Uncuff most of the animals that have to be brought into the ED after a scuffle and see what the Doctors would do and see if their opinion of excessive force would change tunes. Most brought in are because they violently and/or or had a prolonged resistance. Its real easy to judge when you can can 5 or 6 bodies leaning on another to get them into restraints...let him stand up and see what happens.

[Just a guy 493]

There is NO Doctor that can say the police used excessive force due to the fact that they see the suspect after the fact and they have no idea what happened during the arrest. In most cases the cops who are injured in a fight go to a different hospital so the doctors who are making these statements never get to see what happens to the cops, only to the perps. I have been a cop for 10 years and I can tell you from experience that the perps get treated much better by the docs and nurses than the cops do. The only time they are good to us is when they have an EDP in the ER that they need restrained.

Policing is the only profession where people who know nothing about it try to tell us how to do our jobs...

Merry Christmas Everyone !!!!!!!!

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Yeah, if these doctors had actually SEEN how these scumbags were acting BEFORE they got pinched, perhaps they would change their tunes. Maybe these doctors need to go on ride-alongs with some of the area's finest.

[ny10570 745]

This is poorly written article about what sounds like a very weak study. These doctors have no education as to what is and what is not excessive force. The study does not appear to differentiate between doctors suspecting excessive force and hearing a perp complain about excessive force. Do most Docs know the difference between a perp who was wrongfully beaten and one who was coked up and and attacked an officer? Since there is no reporting system in place this is all based on doctors recollections rather than anything they or anyone else documented. Anyone with even a basic psychology background understands that events that stand out gain importance in your memory over time. The one guy who really was worked over 6 months ago becomes 2 guys or his injuries become more severe. Then there is also adrenaline's ability to intensify memories. It is related to the phenomenon where big trucks making noise go faster than small quiet cars. It also makes guns and knives bigger when you're at the business end. Say there is one guy who came in with a badly broken hand. Figure he's got an emergency attending, emergency resident, orthopedic attending, ortho resident, triage nurse, area nurse, and radiology doc treating him. Thats 7 people on one shift and according to their survey methods that could be seven different people reporting to have seen a potential abuse case in the past year. Thats your typical teaching hospital. If the perp throws in chest pain, significant medical history or an interesting toxicology result he will see even more people. He spends the night in the ER the next tour all get briefed on his condition.

[grumpyff 1,159]

Some doctors really think you can just talk to people to get them to stop. Last month I took a perp to the Bellevue CPEP, brought in after being secured in the 'burrito bag' by ESU. After an intial triage in the ED, the restraints were removed, and was then secured to the bed with handcuffs, and leg shackles. After waiting over an hour the perp starts to scream " I gotta take a dump" (editted to avoid colorful language prohibited on this board ) The doctor in charge finally came out to see what the problem was. She then ordered my to let him use the restroom, to which I promptly refused. She told me that was 'inhumane'. I then told her "it took 4 of us to handcuff him on the middle of a subway platform, and another four ESU officers to secure him at the stationhouse. I'm here by myself, I am not going to be able to secure him by myself." After a few minutes of discussion I agreed to take the stretcher inside the secure area of the CPEP ward, along with 4 Hospital police officers, and two attendants. Things went smoothly, but it was tense.

I've also had perps take swings at doctor in other cases after they ordered one set of handcuffs removed (perp had both hands secured to the bed due to violence). I thought it was the greatest thing to see a doctor get hit, and then promply tell me to put the second set of cuffs back on.

[irishfire2491 24]

it is not fair if docter have to deal with them to make the settle down they give HALDO and other good meds, Police Have handcuffs. Go figure!!!

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

This hurts. Because I hold Doctors in such a high regard. I know they are SO SMART, that they know all the difficulties of Police work.. in addition to being so skilled intheir own profession. NOT!! I hope Doctor Libral and the gang fall victem to violent crimes.

This dosn't come as a shock. I have delt with MD's that think perps just stop running, or comply with an order just as easy as it was when John and Ponch from CHiP's would point and someone and effect an arrest. These Md's need a reality check bigtime.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Policing is the only profession where people who know nothing about it try to tell us how to do our jobs...

LOL. So your kinda of equal then. Policing is the only profession where the professionals who know nothing about other professions try to tell them how to do their jobs! LOL.

[Just a guy 493]

heres's a great one for you, I got called to the old Yonkers General for a male shot inthe head... i was working a double and it was 0530 am... the guy was hit with a .22 that skimmed his scalp and lodged between his head and his skin... he threw the blood pressure cuff stand at the male nurse in yonkers general and we locked him up for assault 2, we took him to st joe's where he threatened to kill an ER who said he's fine, if he doesn't want to be treated get him out of here, he had a .22 slug removed a few days later ... the bottom line is skells in the ER aren't always right, most imes if you wind up in the ER your wrong and deserve it !!!!!!!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Funny enough brother I had similiar instance a couple years ago. Guy was shot at medium range with a .22 handgun, slug hit him in the back of the head, never penetrated his skull. The bullet stayed under the skin traveled around the skull and lodged right in front of his right ear. Mine was a lot more cooperative however...

[Guest TOYBUFF911]

Sounds like this is based upon only those who enter the E.R.. what about the thousands of prisoners that end up in jail without incident. BS article by a BS writer.