Is Regionalization Going to be CT's "Next Big Thing?"

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I wasn't sure that this belonged in the "Fiscal Crisis" forum, since its actually a good thing, but if I'm wrong, Mods just switch it over.

In the summary of her budget cuts for the coming year, Governor Rell has proposed a great incentive for local municipalities in CT to band together and regionalize government. There will be $40 million in grants for infrastructure projects that involve regionalization of services to help cut costs and the tax burden on local governments. There will also be $10 million in grants for Capital Expenditures. In addition, she is promising a 10% increase in state aid for local roads and other capital improvements for towns that enter a regionalized system. What does everyone think, will this help some of CT's Fire/Police/EMS services finally start to see the light and regionalize in places where it could DEFINITELY be useful? I think some good might come out of these cuts.

[helicopper 1,050]

NYS has had (for a few years) a large pool of money that could be tapped for political subdivisions (including FD's) to use for regionalization/consolidation but to date, I don't think a single nickel has been used.

I like the idea that additional state aid would be available to those municipalities/areas that do regionalize. Makes sound fiscal sense.

I've never understood why Westchester needs (or would even want) a couple hundred different political subdivisions within the 470 +/- square miles of county.

[Tapout 42]

NYS has had (for a few years) a large pool of money that could be tapped for political subdivisions (including FD's) to use for regionalization/consolidation but to date, I don't think a single nickel has been used.

I like the idea that additional state aid would be available to those municipalities/areas that do regionalize. Makes sound fiscal sense.

I've never understood why Westchester needs (or would even want) a couple hundred different political subdivisions within the 470 +/- square miles of county.

Chris, is a political subdivision fancy talk for FIFEDOM? Just curious...

[IzzyEng4 427]

For the towns that have separate fire districts, the merger into a single department would be more beneficial. For instance West Haven having three separate fire districts and merging into one municipal fire department under the city charter or say those towns out east that have say 4 separate fire departments (own commissioners, own budget, own staffing, ect) into a common fire department under a town / district charter would be easier.

However there is a major problem for many of the cites. towns and boroughs in the state. All of CT incorporated cities and towns, and a few of the incorporated boroughs in the state have in their charters the right to operate and maintain a fire department and may add fire companies as they seem fit. Under he proposed plan, if you read it in the black and white, would require major charter changes and since there is no county government system in place (which was abolished in the 60s and now would help with the proposal), would cause major problems and would not happen over night. Granted most of the problems would be political level.

[Geppetto 31]

As witnessed by the ongoing struggle in Stamford, unless the purse strings are tugged - and HARD - there isn't any impetus for change. If a city of over a 120,000 hasn't been able to combine it's (6) fire departments, the merging of adjacent munipalities, without a county-level government system in place, seems utopian.

[50-65 205]

And even if CT could pull it off and consolidate services, it would still take another 80 years to see improvement in NY. Unless of course there was a way that they could do it and still maintain #1 tax status.

I've believed for years that NY, CT, and NJ are having a contest to see who can have the highest taxes and they do whatever they can to be #1.

[FFPCogs 863]

As witnessed by the ongoing struggle in Stamford, unless the purse strings are tugged - and HARD - there isn't any impetus for change. If a city of over a 120,000 hasn't been able to combine it's (6) fire departments, the merging of adjacent munipalities, without a county-level government system in place, seems utopian.

Well G, as much as I am in favor of unification/consolidation (at least to a degree), I have to say.....sadly you are correct.

Cogs

[joetnymedic 43]

One of the major issues in CT is too many chiefs and not enough indians. Take med con. We have what 6 different zones if I remember right and I dont know if this has changed since I worked, but SW is the perfect example. You can have med con from bpt and st v's or norwalk or stamford or greenwich and thats in just one section. If things were regionalized it would be great. Florida is a great example look at the counties. even their radio systems, the whole county is on one system just different talk groups.

[Guest]

And even if CT could pull it off and consolidate services, it would still take another 80 years to see improvement in NY. Unless of course there was a way that they could do it and still maintain #1 tax status.

I've believed for years that NY, CT, and NJ are having a contest to see who can have the highest taxes and they do whatever they can to be #1.

does that mean living in NY makes us the winner or loser in this case

Edited February 6, 2009 by JHK3605

[OLDGUY19 6]

To many white hats egos to get anything done

[FFPCogs 863]

Regionalization/consolidation will more than likely become the trend in the near future, resistance or not, for a variety of reasons (which thankfully I will not delve into now since I can't find my soapbox... ). The point being, wouldn't it make far more sense to work collectively towards that goal now, on OUR terms rather than having it forced upon us by those who may have other agendas? This is not about paid vs volunteer, or vol. vs vol. ect, it's about FFs vs an at times less than sympathetic public or bureaucracy. Simply forming exploratory commitees to look at the difficulties and develop plans for that eventuality would be a great start. Not to mention the side benefit of increased cooperation at any level. If nothing comes of it...fine, nothing will have been lost for the effort. But if indeed circumstances force the issue, we will be that much better off for having put in that effort.

Stay Safe

Cogs

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Izzy, in response to what you were mentioning about West Haven, this past week the price of consolidation was brought out at a meeting, and I think ALOT of residents got turned off to the fact that their taxes would increase significantly, so I don't know if the consolidation push is going to have the passion it did before. Unfortunate.

[eckyphats 0]

will never ever happen

[IzzyEng4 427]

Izzy, in response to what you were mentioning about West Haven, this past week the price of consolidation was brought out at a meeting, and I think ALOT of residents got turned off to the fact that their taxes would increase significantly, so I don't know if the consolidation push is going to have the passion it did before. Unfortunate.

Of course its going to cost more money, that is a fact, so is splitting up one department into several districts. The cost is not for operations and maintenance of the department, buildings and apparatus, its the legal fees and such. The tax rate is going to be the same the difference is under a "City of West Haven Fire Department" under the city charter, the taxes will be mixed with the resident's annual tax bill. In the long run for the city, it would be more beneficial to combine the departments and their medic service under one entity as it seems. But it was widely mentioned previously in the reports from the districts and the city. Also too the city could come in and abolish the districts too just by going for a charter revision stating they would be able to establish and support a fire department under their authority. If the residents of West Haven vote favorably (51% of the vote) for this charter change then it can be enacted. Scary huh? A little unknown fact of CT incorporations. Also this is just a paraphrasing of it and not the full correct outline information so I may be overlooking something as well.

[firebuff08 29]

Izzy - you need to do more research. A City Charter change will not make the Allingtown or West Shore Fire Districts go away. They are independent municipal entities created by Special Acts of the Connectiut General Assembly. To disolve those districts, the respective Boards of Fire Commissioners would have to adopt a resolution calling for such action. Then, the matter would have to be approved by a majority of district voters at a referendum after which the State Representative in whose district the particular fire district lies would have to bring a new Special Act before the State Legislature. Only after the Special Act was approved by the House and Senate and signed by the Governor could the Districts be disolved and only then could the districts stop collecting taxes and stop providing fire protection. It is a lengthy process requiring specific legal documentation regarding how the financial affairs of the district --payment of all debts including unfunded pension liabilities and sale of all assets (fire trucks/buildings etc) are going to be handled. If the three Districts were to be merged each district would have to follow the steps outlined above. If the City chose to create a municipal fire dept the City would have to assume all financial obligations of the individual districts and would assume owership of district assets. If the decision is to form a consolidated fire district then it would be the new district that would assume the liabilities and assets of the individual districts.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Firebuff, the West Haven Center District is in the same boat, their actual name is the West Haven First Fire Taxation District, so, even though their name is misleading, they are independent as well. The city charter prohibits the city from having a fire department, as it currently stands. Consolidation will come eventually, but it has to be done and funded properly. Though I don't think West Haven would qualify for one of Governor Rell's grants, as its not "regionalization" since they are all in one city.

Edited February 6, 2009 by SageVigiles

[IzzyEng4 427]

Fire buff, though you are correct in what you are saying, when I mentioned the fact about voting to consolidate (the 51%) then the districts would be abolished. Its up to the taxpayers of those districts to decide their fate. A change in the city charter would lead to such an action if the voters and then a vote would have to be taken in the districts separately. I wasn't clear on that in the initial post. But also, if a city determines that it is more beneficial having their own fire department than have say 3, 4 or five separate taxation districts (I don't like the word municipality since that should refer to borough, town of city government only but that's another topic), the city can enact on it and create their own, if their town / city / borough charter says so and have a "great influence" on all of the residents. Like I said I may also be misinterpreting or missing something also, so yes I am researching it.

For instance, I see you are from Middletown and I know you have three separate districts - Middletown, South District and Westfield. Now politically I am not sure how they are set up or if they receive money from the town but I'm going to assume they are totally self-sufficient. Say if the South District, which also had problems recently, was to fold and disband for what ever the case may be, the Middletown and Westfield fire districts have no authority nor do they have to provide coverage for that district (not saying that they would not do so because that would be unethical). Now say for instance the Middletown Fire Department we'll go under the assumption is a city funded department and it is in the city charter to provide fire protection in the city, then the Middletown Fire Department must provide fire protection. In West Haven all three districts are autonomous from the city but work with the city and together. If one of these districts were to fold up, the others do not have provide protection to that one district.

Also to with any Special Act or Resolution made by General Assembly, it does state in the last section of that special act it may be repealed at any given time by the General Assembly. And any process to repeal it yes does take a long time because of all the legal-eze

[firebuff08 29]

For the record, Middletown is somewhat different. South District and Westfield are independent districts created by the Legislature. The Middletown FD is a Department of City government but it is NOT funded from the City's general fund. It is funded by a special tax district created by the City. Only property owners within the district pay the tax and receive fire protection from Middletown FD. All 3 depts provide automatic mutual aid as necessary.

[eckyphats 0]

the same situation in Trumbull with 3 seperate taxing fire districts

also Redding has 3 seperate fire/ems taxation districts

[FFPCogs 863]

What strikes me whenever this topic comes up is that many of us can list a litany of reasons as to why this won't, can't or shouldn't work but seem to overlook or ignore what should be the primary concern as to why it could, must or should...improved service to best serve the community. Without fail the main goal must alway be to get the proper number of people on a scene to mitigate any incident, (since that is what our service is all about), which in many cases consolidation addresses. But what about some of the factors that, in conjunction to that, lead to better service? Things like saving taxpayers some money, which especially in these hard times will do much to better serve the community. So will things like standardized training and SOP/Gs, throw in unified command and distribution of resources and the community gets yet another bonus. I'm sure you get the idea.

We in the fire service have generally done what we want....because we could. This is not necessarily a bad thing, it is just how things are. Unfortunatey we may find that this is no longer the case, not only because money is tight and getting tighter, but also because peoples expectations, and industry standards have changed as well. Heads in the sand, or resistance based in keeping the status quo may in the end, do far more damage than a proactive approach based in some simple realities of today's world. As I've said, if indeed this is coming or rising on the horizon we will be far better off by heading in that direction and being prepared for it on our own terms than we will by sitting idly by as consolidation is force fed to us.

Stay Safe

Cogs

[Guest FFNick]

Well said, Cogs.

If our Fire Service leaders felt the need to get this done, and our politicians could be made to understand the situation, then I would think that the State and the Attorney General would get on board and work together to make it happen.

Those are a lot of stars to get into alignment, though.

[Bnechis 3,961]

What strikes me whenever this topic comes up is that many of us can list a litany of reasons as to why this won't, can't or shouldn't work but seem to overlook or ignore what should be the primary concern as to why it could, must or should...improved service to best serve the community. Cogs

BRAVO....right on target

[eckyphats 0]

it seems like things are starting to get into the right directions.. all the valley towns (seymour, derby, ansonia etc) had a meeting and I know more automatic aid between surrounding towns will be starting

Also there was a meeting in Trumbull with surrounding towns to talk about the same things...

[IzzyEng4 427]

it seems like things are starting to get into the right directions.. all the valley towns (seymour, derby, ansonia etc) had a meeting and I know more automatic aid between surrounding towns will be starting

Hopefully it will work this time..........and everyone plays nice.