Hartsdale Fire District To Vote On $7.5 Mil. Firehouse Plans

[x635 4,066]

From the Greenburgh Town Email list

Hartsdale has definetly needed the space for a while now at Station 1. However, I question the high cost of it all at once.

I know Station 1 definetly needs bigger bays and a modernization, but Station 2? Because you figure they are going to gain the space to move TL-15 to Central Ave, and Station 2 will gain 1-2 more bays anyways.

The Hartsdale Fire District (independent of the town government) has scheduled a special election on March 31 at Fire Station No 1, 25 South Central Ave, Hartsdale between 6 PM and 9 PM for the purposes of approving a $7,497,000 referendum---reconstruction of and the construction of an addition to the fire station no 1 at a cost of $2.175,241 and the reconstruction of and the construction of an addition to the fire station no 2 at a cost of $5,321,759. For information contact the Fire Department at 949 2325.    Paul Feiner

[Guest BJM123]

X635- How can you question what Hartsdale FD needs in respect to what they want their residents to vote on ? Do you work or live there to know what they do or don't need ?

[x635 4,066]

X635- How can you question what Hartsdale FD needs in respect to what they want their residents to vote on ? Do you work or live there to know what they do or don't need ?

How can I question something a goverment-sanction taxing entity is doing????? LMAO!!!

As a matter of fact, I am a resident and taxpayer of the Hartsdale Fire Department, so I have every right to say something and ask questions. I also grew up in the district, and my father owned a business within Hartsdale Fire district. (That's actually irrelevant though, as I will explain in a minute) The taxes are astronomical in this town as it is, and skyrocket year after year after year (and we still don't have fully staffed ambulances but have parks!!!). In case you didn't know, we are already paying for the recent police station renovations, new parks in the town, a major lawsuit verdict, a new town hall, and now the town wants to spend $20 Million on a new library....on top of numerous other tax-raising items, these fire station renovations, planned courthouse relocation and expansion, every little bell and whistle for the parks system, and the school district taxes. How much do they expect the average citizen to pay every year in property tax? And to note further, we have a career FD and career EMS. I might as well live in Beverly Hills with the taxes in this town. No more respect or consideration for the working or middle class for this town.

If you had taken the time to actually read my comment, all I pondered was whether both stations needed to be done all at once. I hope the Hartsdale Fire District does some serious promotions on this plan, because I know there are several residents of this town who will oppose this. So far, I haven't heard anything about it from Hartsdale Fire District, so I have no idea what or why they want what they want, although I do know what they need and want just because I'm an enthusiast. But the average joe doesn't. I've known that HFD sorely needs a new Station 1, as the current facility is extremly small and obsolete. The Station 2 plans just came as quite an ambititous suprise to me. Personally, I'd rather they put off Station 2 for a bit and just do Station 1 for now, and use the extra $$ to increase staffing on TL15. And don't get me started on a merger, lol!

In addition, this is a discussion board, for discussing items such as this. I was in no way being negative, and I'm sorry if you percieved my comments to be such. Anybody who knows me knows that I support and LOVE Hartsdale FD. I have EVERY right to question and have a say on how my tax dollars are spent....thats how goverment works in this county, well at least how it's supposed to work.And even if I'm not a resident of Hartsdale, I have every right to discuss it on this, a FORUM FOR DISCUSSION. Just as you do and have....as long as it's done positvely or doesn't attack or flame anyone or any department.

And for your information, I am voting yes on the plan...at this time.

If you have any other issues with me stating my opinon, feel free to let me know, and I'll more than happily provide my rebuttal.....

[LCFD994 8]

well said x635... but tell us how you really feel.....lol

[Guest WolfEMT]

I think the taxpayers in the district should vote in favor of the referrendum. I volunteer in a department which has been located in the same quarters since 1968 and has attempted to pass similar referrenda for building and capital improvements, but to no avail. The first one was in 1980, again in 1991, 1996, and 1999. The end result is that our ambulances, which through the innovations in technology are nothing like the ones my Squad had in 1968, just barely fit into our building. Our facilities are crampped as we have more members now than we ever did, so on meeting and training night, we're crammed in there like sardines. I'm assuming that HFD is trying to pass this referrendum so that it can keep up with the improvements in building technology and to keep its facilities as close to the present industry norms. Yes, property taxes may be high, but Hartsdale is in Westchester County, home to the highest property taxes in the NYC Metro Area. My hometown is no different with respect to property taxes; they are high and they do increase every year, but when voters take the mentality of "oh, it will just add to the increasing tax burden, so I'm not voting for it," they actually do the town a disservice because they are not looking at what future benefits passing the referendum can bring.

[x635 4,066]

Although I absolutely agree that the FD deserves the best facilty(s), I disagree with your comments about property taxes. First off, the WC hasn't always been a money sucker in terms of taxes. This used to be a pretty working class area up until the late 80's. Using the excuse "well,the taxes are high anyways" is a very poor excuse to rationlize spending. So, were not supposed to control taxes or spending?? Slowly, all the working and middle class is being forced out of my town. I can't really even afford to live in the town I grew up in for the long term because of the insane taxes.

The problem is, there is no planning with my town, or any effort to make goverment work more efficently. It seems they just keeping adding and adding and adding, with no master plan. I highly agree that a fire station is an important matter, but my town wastes a considerable amount of money on luxuries and other uneccesary items, without foresight. It's almost like impulse buying. There is no long term planning for these type of projects. They want everything all at once it seems. There has to be a limit, and there has to be a balance to things. You can't just keep heaping huge projects on the taxpayers year after year, and expect them to keep up with it. There's no effort to look at ways to make things more lean and efficient.

I totally support the new firehouse. It's the problem of "Oh lets buy a new park" which not only adds a park to the tax rolls, but maitnence and staf as well.....we can hire a guy to mow lawns, but we can't afford paid EMTs????

This town has no priorities or respect for working and middle class taxpayers, no proper capital facilties plan, and because of it the fire district may suffer. That's the problem. Yet the new library will probaly go through. Ugh, this town.

The other issue is the class of wealthy Manhattn yuppies who are invading and subsequently ruining this town and county. They care more about parks and libraries than firehouses and police stations. Look at the NWP situation.

[Guest WolfEMT]

I agree with you, the "Oh, let's buy a park" mentality doesn't get anyone anywhere. A park won't pour water on the flames that are destroying your house and a park won't operate the defibrillator that is necessary to get your heart back into a normal rhythm.

If there is no planning in the town, or any effort to make the government run more effeciently, then how come the politicians to blame keep getting re-elected?

[Guest]

 

I totally support the new firehouse. It's the problem of "Oh lets buy a new park" which not only adds a park to the tax rolls, .

.

When a Town buys or acquire's new park land it come off the tax rolls-no taxes received.

I Totally Agree with you that the Town of Greenburgh doesn't have a master plan at all. Supervisor Paul Fiener needs to be replaced. One Question that needs to be asked. Why does the town spend ten's if not hundred's of thousands of dollars for a Greenburgh Police Tech rescue team, when its always been done by Fire depts. the police are not giving the taxpayers the best bang for the buck.

It is a duplicate of service's. The police should be out there looking for the bad guys, just one thought on wasting taxpayer money.

#-o even though the town doesn't have any thing to do with the Fire Districts- It's still the same taxpayer's

[GFD70 4]

I have to agree on the park issue. I worked for Greenburgh Parks & Rec. at Veteren Park for the past 3 summers. I saw so much tax payer money wasted on useless crap. For example they had a day for dogs to come and swim in one of the pools.

[Remember585 815]

 

I totally support the new firehouse. It's the problem of "Oh lets buy a new park" which not only adds a park to the tax rolls, .

.

When a Town buys or acquire's new park land it come off the tax rolls-no taxes received.

I Totally Agree with you that the Town of Greenburgh doesn't have a master plan at all. Supervisor Paul Fiener needs to be replaced. One Question that needs to be asked. Why does the town spend ten's if not hundred's of thousands of dollars for a Greenburgh Police Tech rescue team, when its always been done by Fire depts. the police are not giving the taxpayers the best bang for the buck.

It is a duplicate of service's. The police should be out there looking for the bad guys, just one thought on wasting taxpayer money.

#-o even though the town doesn't have any thing to do with the Fire Districts- It's still the same taxpayer's

Although I don't know the first thing about Greenburgh politics or taxes, I do have to agree with you on this. Duplicating services, especially those not used often, is a waste of money and resources. I could elaborate, but I know I will offend too many narrow-minded folks. IE - tactical EMS....something that blows my mind....

[E64PCFD2044 1]

pbvpm - your post about the rescue team got me thinking...if the cops are getting paid by the taxpayers for having a rescue team, is it cheaper then the FD doing it...eventhough they are paid?

[Guest]

pbvpm -  your post about the rescue team got me thinking...if the cops are getting paid by the taxpayers for having a rescue team, is it cheaper then the FD doing it...eventhough they are paid?

The answer is a Most definite Yes!! Because the police should be out trying to catch the bad guys- or a least try to patrol the area of thier city or town. Its always been the Fire Depts. that did rescue work. Lets ask a Question! When the cops are training or on a rescue call who is chasing the crooks. ans. NOBODY. Leave it to the Fire Depts. ](*,) :roll: Thats how the City's and or Towns would save taxpayer's money- Simple as that. [-o< Also the cops are also paid!

[firemn23 8]

I believe it is a combined task force with the FD and PD. Also no one should complain about firehouses just take a stroll to Ardsley.

[Guest]

I believe it is a combined task force with the FD and PD.  Also no one should complain about firehouses just take a stroll to Ardsley.

You should know first hand, the Ardsley PD or village board took the Ardsley PD officers off of the Greenburgh SWAT team, because they said they couldn't afford It. Training,school Etc... What a load of CRA@! That is something the police Depts. need- not Tech Rescue teams. [-X :-k

[Remember585 815]

Well said.

As for Ardsley's firehouse, any word on a new one?

[dc2t 80]

Look at the front page picture of this web site it sez it all. You cant put

modern apparatus in 75 year old buildings. [-(

[HFD209 4]

Actually brian, if you think a dog day was bad, They are actually looking to open up a dog park som where in greenburgh. Which will also be a waste. I mean yes dogs do need to run around but thats why there is ridge road and web field park and for god sakes there are streets to wlak your dogs on.

Station 1 is falling apart. Yes we got a new roof a few years back. The basic layout is that they will expand the bay door wider. there is no way that they can make it taller. Also if there is anyway that the tl goes dow there, then they will have to bild a seperate bay next to or behind the station. The problem is that the only way to expand the station is back. The hfd property line goes about 6 feet or so towards the diner. And they can not expand the south bay b/c it is attached to a load bearing wall. The engines barely fit in there. Did you know that when the rig backs up, the guys have to get out of the truck otherwise the thing will bottoms out.

Station 2 is no better, it is out dated. Has anyone been in the dispatch room latley. it so needs to be updated. Also with the renovation of station 1, they will expand the bunkroom supstairs, this allowing more manpower to spend the night, but also it will kick the volunteers out of station 1. We have always had a volunteer room up there, ever since the deprtament started. We would have to relocate everything to station 2. But where? ther is no room up there for us. Also at station 2, sleeping qauters are tight. The comissioners room is small. Something need to be done. Im voting yes.

[HFD23 37]

Given this may seem like a lot of money and it is, tax payers must take into account that nothing has been done as far as major construction on renovations to either station in about 43 years.. the last being the construction of station 2 in approx 1962... Stations 1 barely fits engine 170 and 171 is current down there as well and there are issues with the floor being able to support the weight of modern rigs. take into account that Engine 171 is a 1976 nearly 30 years old and needs to be replaces and we all know that rigs are getting bigger and heavier so what happens when the new engine is ordered or in several years when other rigs need replacement, they just won;t fit... station 1 defiantly needs a refirb

as for station 2 its in alittle better shape, but it current has to house car 2172, 2174, 169, Tl 15, The antique, and the line truck and parking all these vehicles is nearly impossible and cramped. also there is now work area to pre form maintenance or rigs or department vehicles and as HFD209 said, the dispatch area and living 1/4's leave a lot to be desired, there is no additional room for bunks if a crew is held over or if a signal 9 lasts through out the night. along with the much needed addition of a new company room for the volunteers thanks to them relinquishing the current room at satiation 1 in order to move weight equipment and expand the sleeping 1/4s at station 1... bottom line is these repairs and improvements are necessary and its been over 40 years so lets deal with the issues now not when we are forced to order a rig that doesn't; fit our station or even forced to knock down a station and put a rig into a trailer like another westchester department had to do.... its time to do this now and stop wasting money on parks and dog parks and the over 80,000 the town spent to build a skate park 2 years ago that is permanently closed due to dis repair... that's 80,000 wasted not counting the money it coast to staff it with 2 people every time it was opened... just another example of a waste of tax payer money.... I think the men and women Who serve the Citizens of Hartsdale wither it be paid or volunteer who put their lives on the line in other peoples time of need have earn the right to have their own bunk, and a place to park their rigs These repairs are 40 year sin the making and they will only become more costly and necessary if we don;T act now... so I think this is absolutely necessary and we citizens should vote yes, how ever we need to make the town more accountable on how they waste a lot of tax payers money that don;t serve to benefit the whole community....

[firemn23 8]

just a comment that is common for all area municipalities why cant we think about growing when we build things in the first place. It always seems that villages talk after the fact oh we should have built storage in to the building, we should have done this or that. The first thing that comes to my mind is school districts. Is it me or are they crying for a bond every other year. The elementary school by me has expanded at least 4 times in a matter of 10 years. Ardsley village hall has no space for storage why didnt you think of that when you built it 6 years ago. Villages always worry about saving the buck now but never think long term.

This is going off topic but if you want a cascade system that costs 40,000 why not think long term and allocate 10,000 for 4 years, which you really cant do under government accounting, but yopu could get around the system by increasing your budget 10,000 per year for 4 years.

In conclusion I think that villages have a problem of not thinking long term, and we are included in this to. If you need to buy a car do you put money away then buy a sports car, even though your wife is pregnant and you should really buy the mini van.

[Guest Homer J.]

The two stations operated by the Hartsdale Fire District have served the community well over the past decades. However, as technology, career staffing, call volume and equipment have changed the facilities have not. As a result changes in technology integration, such as the installation of 911 or even a modern phone system, have been installed, modifications to the structures have been made as best as they could.

Station 1 was built in 1926. There have been minor room changes over the years, but basically the same floor plan has remained. One career member sleeps in the area known as the desk watch (the kitchen) on the apparatus floor. Diesel by products such as Carbon Monoxide, Hydrogen Cyanide and particulate fill the building, but engulf the kitchen area as they go in and out of the building. Steps were taken to try to lessen the amount through the use of a ceiling mounted filter unit, but the effects are minimal. Work out equipment is located on the real of the apparatus floor, therefore one of the smaller vehicles that used to park inside can no longer. The hot water system is comical. Members who are taking showers will go to the Burn Center if someone flushes a toilet or rinses a coffee cup in the kitchen sink. The apparatus door height has resulted in the last two engines purchased to be extremely short in height (not a bad thing) but limiting the amount of additional equipment or compartmentation that can be added. The 1946 ladder trucks that used to be housed in the building are no longer available. There is no plan to put TL15 in this house. One of the reasons being that its turning radius would not allow it to make the left out of the house and still make the right onto East Hartsdale Avenue.

Station 2 was built in 1962 as a sub-station for the Poet's Corner and Huntley areas. Two career members were assigned there and one engine. At the time of its construction the District planned for future expansion. That expansion has taken place and now has reached the point where there is a valid reason for an addition. Sleeping quarters are minimal at best. There are no handicap bathrooms available. There is not enough room for the equipment stationed at the house. Rigs and accessory vehicles are left outside or parked between the bays. Accidents with rigs hitting each other occur needlessly due to the lack of space (yes, there are people backing the operators). There are no diesel recovery methods in place. Business areas, such as areas to store documents are non-existent. There are no "dirty clean up" areas for biohazards and turn out gear is subjected to continuous exposure to apparatus exhaust.

The new plans call for an expansion of Station 2 that will add not only a bay, but program, business and volunteer company space. The sleeping, workout and dispatch spaces will be improved and expanded to keep up with current and future staffing needs well into the next 20 years. Station 1 plans include the addition of a single story rear section (kitchen and deskwatch) and the making of a drive thru bay on the south side of the building. Physical plant issues and provisions will be updated and the building saved from collapse. The timing of this proposal is not ideal as Seth pointed out. Unfortunately, with building costs rising and interest rates threatening to climb the District needs to strike quickly and decisively. These projects were pondered, researched and beaten into the ground before they got to this point.

There are two public hearings on the bond proposal. One on March 22nd and another on March 29th. I am not sure which station each is being held at, please check. There are fliers hanging up throughout the District with this information and dates and times of open houses at both stations.

:wink:

The Hartsdale Fire District is trying to do the right thing and needs your support. They try to plan for the future and sometime you have to stop planning and start building!

[Guest WolfEMT]

I hope you guys get everything and then some!

[x635 4,066]

Thanks to everyone for the enlightenment...I was aware HFD's facilities are outdated and worn out, but I didn't realize the condition at Station 2. I hope this information is passed along to the public in a comprehensive special edition of the HFD newsletter.

The ONLY thing I disagree with in this refferendum is the new dispatch room and equipment, for obvious reasons.

Also, I wish there was something that could be done to improve the roadway so TL15 could make the turn onto Central.... I would also like to see TL-15 relocated to Central Ave and a 75' Quint be placed at Station 2. But we do have a Quint on the 2nd, which is L-4 Or TL-15 be traded in for a Tiller. Anyways, I digress.

BTW, I've heard (a rumor only) Town Supervisor Feiner is against this.

If we this town can even consider spending 20 million for a new library (which I am voting no on), then we can without a doubt afford this crucial item. We have great fire-protection in Hartsdale, and we need to support that with great facilities.

[HFD209 4]

Yeah well Feiner is never with anything unles it comes from his mouth anyway... so for get that...

[Guest WolfEMT]

Seth, just out of curiosity, why are you in disagreement with expanding the dispatch room and upgrading the equipment? Like all equipment, it gets out dated and the facilities must be kept up to date so as to accomodate newer dispatch equipment. The dispatch room in Station 2 is pretty small and isn't very conducive to having more than like 2 people in the room at one time.

[HFD209 4]

Yeah,

I was asking around about pruchasing a quint as a back up rig for an engine and ladder. After all my investigating i gave up. the reasons were valid. One reason was that we have one on a second alarm. And two a quint is too big for station 1 and also the tower is too big for station 1. we are pretty resticted to what we can do. A tiller you say?? hmm interesting that would me tl-15 or tiller 15.. wr it would be...would have to be staffed by 2 people.. food for thought... in reality....i dont think there is a chance.... vote yes.. spread the word

[HFD23 37]

seth it kinda comes down to a yes or no would u rather see the money spent to help improve the FD or wasted on some stupid town project that is shut down not to long after its opening?

all comes down to doe these men and women deserve the redone facilities our should we continue to have to make repairs or modifications to stations to fit smaller rigs and cram stuf finto unsafe places which probable will coast alot more moeny in the future when all this money has been spent and with the cost of building on the rize, who knows in 5 years this could cost douible the amount, this has been over 40 year sin th emaking and has been talked abotu for nearl 14 years so its time to act now.

[x635 4,066]

Seth, just out of curiosity, why are you in disagreement with expanding the dispatch room and upgrading the equipment? Like all equipment, it gets out dated and the facilities must be kept up to date so as to accomodate newer dispatch equipment. The dispatch room in Station 2 is pretty small and isn't very conducive to having more than like 2 people in the room at one time.

I agree with the above, however there is a county agency there 24/7 who could provide the service for free with trained professional and dedicated dispatchers, and free up a firefighter to go on a rig. Also, if they for some reason don't want to do the county, why not team up with Fairview to do it in a combined facility?? I feel dispatching themselves nowadays is a duplication of service, and at this time with no further explanation as to why, it' an uneccesary cost as far as equipment and manpower concerns go. I would much rather have this money used to increase the TL-15 staffing, which I feel is more neccesary and important than your own dispatch center for a small department.

Just so we're clear, I am not against this refferendum at all.

[Guest Homer J.]

Seth - I am sure that Hartsdale Fire District is thankful for your support.

Unfortunetly the issue of dispatching is not as cut and dry as you suggested. That is not a part of the issue at hand. Neither is the costs associated with the purchase of a Quint, adding personnel or sharing services with Fairview FD. Those costs need to be studied further before intellegent conversations can be held. Remember, politics and playing nice in the sand box is not limited to publicly elected town officials.

Please feel free to let you neighbors and friends know what the situation really is so informed voters will be able to make a decision.

[firemn23 8]

Ever notice how villages spend thousands a year on enviornmental studies and road survies bu never on thier own departments.

[Guest]

I would like to bring up another item which could become a problem at Station 1. First, I have not lived in Hartsdale for about 10 years. Before that I lived in Hartsdale for over 20 years.

I totally agree that Station 1 needs to be renovated or replaced. Briefly stated, the problem I refer too is the planned rebuilding of 4 Corners. Is it still on the agenda of the state Dept of Transportation? The plan I am familiar with was to build an underpass at the intersection for through trafic and I assume it is still on the books as a planned item..

If this plan is ever implemented, the question is " What impact does this have in equipment responding to an alarm." I assume that the underpass will be for Central Ave and that it would prevent equipment turning left to go north on Central Ave. All traffic would have to make a right turn leaving the station. Secondly, would there even be enough room to make the right turn. The problem is obvious and this should be discussed by the Hartsdale Commissioners prior to making any commitments to redo Station 1.

Just adding my 2 cents to make sure the best solution is found.

Husky