Bailout System

[FFBlaser 24]

Thats Hondo VFD yes? Who did the primary search if your crew just got upstairs to do the secondary?

The construction workers, did a primary search until the flames started to extend.

[FFBlaser 24]

Not really. Major differences between EA and MPD. Where did you take your US&R bail out class? MPD has only been around for about 1 yr. on the market and our company actually had the first prototype. I highly doubt that you actually carry this device. Also, who was teaching your class? Was in a department US&R class or was it an outside company which came in to teach? Thanks for any information.

So many questions...

Alright here we go, the armchair battles!

Here are links to the EXACT pieces I use except the rope because that was surplus.

Rope Bag:

http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm/pid_4189_bailout_bag_w_40_39_8mm_personal_escape_rope/

Device: (which I have had for about 8 months) http://cmcrescue.com/product.php?CatalogID=1&dept_id=20660&rootNode=0&pid=20307

Device I used before that at the structure fire: http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm/pid_5750_cmc_survivor_8_descender/

The bail out bag is pretty common out here, However the class I took was on my own with four or five guys from other districts to see if it was valuable to the County as a whole.

Here is the link to the company that taught it: http://www.therescuecompany.com/Aboutus.html

Spent about a week in arizona learning from those guys. definitely worth the tax dollars spent. I should correct myself in saying that it was more of a WS&R class than than US&R

[Guest Firediver]

The construction workers, did a primary search until the flames started to extend.

Bro, THE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS did the primary search? Are you serious?

[FFBlaser 24]

Bro, THE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS did the primary search? Are you serious?

Welcome to New Mexico.

It took about fifteen minutes to respond from station, add another ten for us volly's to arrive to station. It was a heroic act, I recall one guy requiring to transport to hospital.

[Guest Firediver]

Sorry Nate, i was lead to believe you were a career guy as per your profile. I am not well versed in VFD ops. So you are saying 25mins (15+10) before u arrived on scene and the house under construction was not well involved yet? Where was the first line placed that the stairs collapsed the 10 min you were performing your search? The link you gave is the same as before (CMC MPD). Which one did you bail out the window with? 1st was MPD, then something similar, now it is the rescue 8.

Yup Pasquals, that was it. What year did you graduate from WSS? Heard the skiing was good up there in Park City.

[Guest Firediver]

Thanks for sharing the experience with us Nate. Stay Low

[FFBlaser 24]

Sorry Nate, i was lead to believe you were a career guy as per your profile. I am not well versed in VFD ops. So you are saying 25mins (15+10) before u arrived on scene and the house under construction was not well involved yet? Where was the first line placed that the stairs collapsed the 10 min you were performing your search? The link you gave is the same as before (CMC MPD). Which one did you bail out the window with? 1st was MPD, then something similar, now it was the rescue 8.

Yup Pasquals, that was it. What year did you graduate from WSS? Heard the skiing was good up there in Park City.

I didnt graduate from WSS I did an independent study program and graduated in 2002, the skiing was good, loved competing as well. The one used in the incident was the second link. i somewhat prefer that one over the new mechanical device and am considering trading it in. I haven't been doing any interior work lately. Mainly MVAs and Rescue situations.

The line was placed on the first floor, in another room where I believe an electrical circuit malfunctioned and that was determined to be the cause.

I took about 25 minutes to arrive on scene and the fire had not extended from that room adjacent to the stairs. However as soon as we began interior ops the fire spread across the corridor pushing the attack team out and calling for an "all out" procedure.

[Guest Firediver]

The CMC MPD as per CMC.

At this time, the MPD can only be used with ½” rope. We are planning on introducing one at a later date that would work with 7/16” rope. Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Thanks,

Bryan Robbins

Customer Support Associate

P: 805-456-7159 ext. 511

F: 805-562-9870

brobbins@cmcrescue.com

[Guest Firediver]

Ok, I lost about 2min of sleep over this last night but it was enough to get me wondering.

First you had 50ft then 100ft of rope. Which one is it?

Second, you were low on O2, was this a EMS call? (i'll give ya this b/c thats what 1st day probies and news casters say)

Third, Construction workers did the primary until the fire extended out of the room but yet 25 min when you arrived on scene the flames had not extended until you were upstairs searching? (which also collapsed the stairs right?)

Who in their right mind would tie themselves UP in a tree during a wildland fire? We do not get alot of wildland fires here but every pic I see the trees are pretty much destroyed.( Heat rises no?)

You say you spent $40 bucks on a bailout system(50 or 100ft of rope?, biner and bag) but yet have no clue what your device costs? but it uses 12.5-13mm (1/2")rope. You gave a link and said this is the EXACT system but yet the MPD is still there?

One of the only guys interior qualified on scene but yet 4 others (you + 2 + 2 on 1st line) were inside with you. Why would you usually be the OV man when you are interior qualified? Sorry, you have been going on MVA's and rescue calls.

I personally Spent about fourty dollars on a Bailout system consisting of a good climbing carabiner, a 20 dollar rope bag and 50 feet of rescue rope.

Basically, It is about 100 feet of climbing rope with an easy lock carabiner and belay device that is tucked into a rope bag, the rope bag has a hole in the bottom end where the carabiner side of rope is threaded through. Basically, you create a body belay using the carabiner end and and belay device. Than you find an anchor point and thread the bag of rope through the anchor point and begin your decent. While belaying you use the belay device in conjunction with the rope bag to slowly descend down the side of your structure, It is a very rural situation out here and I have only had to self rescue once in fully involved structure fire when O2 got low and command ordered the interior attack team out from the second floor. of course the stairs were collapsed and unfit for evacuation. It worked well even though I was hesitant in the beginning. The bailout system is something you should always have. However, you should create it based on your environment. I know guys on brush rigs who tie themselves into trees so they have a way out if it gets tough.

Here are the links for my system,

Rope bag:http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm/pid_955_tfs_rope_bag_empty_small/

Carabiner: http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm/pid_6322_cmc_proseries_aluminum_key_lock_rescue_carabiners_nfpa_g/

Belay device: (expensive on here but I have a friend who works for CMC so I got the department a deal) http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm/pid_6952_cmc_rescue_multi_purpose_device_pulley_rescue_belay_descender/

Yeah it was a worker,We had a second line but it was deemed that the structure was unfit for further operations on the interior. I was one of the first piece to arrive. My department is a volunteer department however it is part of a larger county department which staffs five 24/7 staffed ambulances which are stationed with volly departments. The county also has several paid stations that respond with volly departments. I reside in santa fe, which is the capital of new mexico. I work for the State OEM. Most of the time I am on OV but I was one of the only interior certified guys on scene. I was on the search team with two other guys who used the same system as me to extract from. I use a 1/4 inch rope, thats not the exact model of bag i have but the similar concept. It works great and fits in my pants pocket.

I enjoy the questions! sorry for the late response! busy day!

thats not the exact model i use. same device essentially just for 1/4 inch rope.

i believe thats what its called, Its a few years old.

also I don't know what the price was. i think 50% percent was the deal for me and 25% for department.

Ah yes pascuals, pretty good restaraunt. Anyway, I'll give you my size-up. Arroyo Hondo

Two story dwelling under construction, bottom floor flames showing, first arriving engine stated flames showing with possible extension, all construction workers accounted for. two other guys got on the nozzle and started interior attack with assistance from a tanker, me and two other guys established a search team and entered the front door with basic irons and made way upstairs making a secondary search. after about 10 minutes the flames extended up the stairs and the BC on scene determined that an alternative means of evac. was needed and we used our belay bags.

The construction workers, did a primary search until the flames started to extend.

I didnt graduate from WSS I did an independent study program and graduated in 2002, the skiing was good, loved competing as well. The one used in the incident was the second link. i somewhat prefer that one over the new mechanical device and am considering trading it in. I haven't been doing any interior work lately. Mainly MVAs and Rescue situations.

The line was placed on the first floor, in another room where I believe an electrical circuit malfunctioned and that was determined to be the cause.

I took about 25 minutes to arrive on scene and the fire had not extended from that room adjacent to the stairs. However as soon as we began interior ops the fire spread across the corridor pushing the attack team out and calling for an "all out" procedure.

Nate, I can not say if you did or did not have to bail only you and the other two guys know. There seems to be a lot of holes in this story. I can not speak for everyone but I take my job VERY VERY seriously. Do not portray yourself as someone you're not. Your profile states you as a career FF but you have clearly stated otherwise, why is that? I'm curious that I can't seem to recall anything on FF close-calls about someone in the Sante FE area bailing out. Maybe it didn't make it but A LOT do make it. Once again thanks for your story Nate. I'm out

[FFBlaser 24]

Ok, I lost about 2min of sleep over this last night but it was enough to get me wondering.

First you had 50ft then 100ft of rope. Which one is it?

Second, you were low on O2, was this a EMS call? (i'll give ya this b/c thats what 1st day probies and news casters say)

Third, Construction workers did the primary until the fire extended out of the room but yet 25 min when you arrived on scene the flames had not extended until you were upstairs searching? (which also collapsed the stairs right?)

Who in their right mind would tie themselves UP in a tree during a wildland fire? We do not get alot of wildland fires here but every pic I see the trees are pretty much destroyed.( Heat rises no?)

You say you spent $40 bucks on a bailout system(50 or 100ft of rope?, biner and bag) but yet have no clue what your device costs? but it uses 12.5-13mm (1/2")rope. You gave a link and said this is the EXACT system but yet the MPD is still there?

One of the only guys interior qualified on scene but yet 4 others (you + 2 + 2 on 1st line) were inside with you. Why would you usually be the OV man when you are interior qualified? Sorry, you have been going on MVA's and rescue calls.

Nate, I can not say if you did or did not have to bail only you and the other two guys know. There seems to be a lot of holes in this story. I can not speak for everyone but I take my job VERY VERY seriously. Do not portray yourself as someone you're not. Your profile states you as a career FF but you have clearly stated otherwise, why is that? I'm curious that I can't seem to recall anything on FF close-calls about someone in the Sante FE area bailing out. Maybe it didn't make it but A LOT do make it. Once again thanks for your story Nate. I'm out

Wow thats a lot of quotes,

I am a Firefighter certified In interior attack as well as a rescue technician. I consider myself a career firefighter, and just because I don't get paid doesn't make me not. Instead of making financial gains I make personal gains as well as meeting a lot of interesting and nice people every day.

º My current bailout system is a 50 ft. 1/2 inch rope with the CMC device and rope bag.

º My previous system was a 100 ft. 1/4 inch rope with a one piece descender. That one cost forty dollars

º When I do respond to structural fires I am almost always on OV because I am good at it and it was one of the first things I learned to do on scene.

º I wouldn't consider what I did as a bail out but just another means of leaving the building

º It was a structure fire, my SCBA became low on O2, I guess thats just what I call it.

º The construction workers told the C1 who arrived on scene first that they thought everyone was out in broken english but they had left the building because of the smoke and flames. (so not really extension)

º Therefore the C1 ordered the first arriving crew which was myself and four other guys to begin interior ops.

º Upon arrival there was three pieces of apparatus on scene Engine, tanker, engine, along with C1 vehicle and other POVs

º Not everyone in the county is certified for interior attack

º I was one of five that was

º Flame extended

º Nozzle guys exited through front door

º search team exited through second story window

Does that clear things up? this should really be in another thread.

Thanks

[dragonrescue 28]

I'm a little kookoo touched in the head, please pass the ketchup,I think I'll go to bed............WOW! Best thread ever!

[x129K 1,393]

I am a Firefighter certified In interior attack as well as a rescue technician. I consider myself a career firefighter, and just because I don't get paid doesn't make me not. Instead of making financial gains I make personal gains as well as meeting a lot of interesting and nice people every day.

[FFBlaser 24]

Something off senor?

[x129K 1,393]

Something off senor?

Let's just say that your definition is going to differ from the majority here...

....and it's Sir...not Senor....but my name is Dan

Edited May 7, 2010 by x129K

[x129K 1,393]

I shall, This topic got a bit off topic yes?

Well...yes and no...

You see, ALOT of people, both career and volunteer put ALOT of stock in EXPERIENCE...the guys who have "been there, done that" are a huge assett to those of us who haven't.

Executing a self rescue under heavy fire conditions is not something alot of us have done...nor want to do...so when someone comes on here saying they have done so - we look at it as an opportunity to pick your brain, get the details, and LEARN from you...

Misrepresenting yourself and your situation is just bad business and ruins your reputation...which is one of the few things we can control in today's fire service.

[FFBlaser 24]

Well...yes and no...

You see, ALOT of people, both career and volunteer put ALOT of stock in EXPERIENCE...the guys who have "been there, done that" are a huge assett to those of us who haven't.

Executing a self rescue under heavy fire conditions is not something alot of us have done...nor want to do...so when someone comes on here saying they have done so - we look at it as an opportunity to pick your brain, get the details, and LEARN from you...

Misrepresenting yourself and your situation is just bad business and ruins your reputation...which is one of the few things we can control in today's fire service.

I think I was trying to help people learn from my experience but it got out of hand, if you ask me. I have learned quite a bit on here by just lurking in the shadows and not posting at all. So I do see where your coming from.

[firefighter-70 27]

Sounds like a bag of worms to me!

[FFBlaser 24]

Reminds me, fishing season?

[mfire 2]

Wow thats a lot of quotes,

I am a Firefighter certified In interior attack as well as a rescue technician. I consider myself a career firefighter, and just because I don't get paid doesn't make me not. Instead of making financial gains I make personal gains as well as meeting a lot of interesting and nice people every day.

º My current bailout system is a 50 ft. 1/2 inch rope with the CMC device and rope bag.

º My previous system was a 100 ft. 1/4 inch rope with a one piece descender. That one cost forty dollars

º When I do respond to structural fires I am almost always on OV because I am good at it and it was one of the first things I learned to do on scene.

º I wouldn't consider what I did as a bail out but just another means of leaving the building

º It was a structure fire, my SCBA became low on O2, I guess thats just what I call it.

º The construction workers told the C1 who arrived on scene first that they thought everyone was out in broken english but they had left the building because of the smoke and flames. (so not really extension)

º Therefore the C1 ordered the first arriving crew which was myself and four other guys to begin interior ops.

º Upon arrival there was three pieces of apparatus on scene Engine, tanker, engine, along with C1 vehicle and other POVs

º Not everyone in the county is certified for interior attack

º I was one of five that was

º Flame extended

º Nozzle guys exited through front door

º search team exited through second story window

Does that clear things up? this should really be in another thread.

Thanks

Nate, why in the world would you give up 1/4 inch which is about 9-10mm rope as a bail out system and go to 1/2 inch or 12.5-13.0 mm. As a bail out system, this just does not make sense. A bailout is a 300 lbs load. Why in the world would you increase it to 1/2 rope which now would be a 600 lbs load tested rope?? Not sure how they do things out there, but based on NFPA, for bailout systems, 8-9 mm is what is recommended as the max diameter for rope. The most common diameter is the 7.5-8 mm which meets all standards for 300 lbs test. Also, what is your reason for getting rid of the EA and going to the MPD? As someone had said already, too many holes to fill in here. Not really sure you fully understand what a personal escape system and devices are.

[FFBlaser 24]

Nate, why in the world would you give up 1/4 inch which is about 9-10mm rope as a bail out system and go to 1/2 inch or 12.5-13.0 mm. As a bail out system, this just does not make sense. A bailout is a 300 lbs load. Why in the world would you increase it to 1/2 rope which now would be a 600 lbs load tested rope?? Not sure how they do things out there, but based on NFPA, for bailout systems, 8-9 mm is what is recommended as the max diameter for rope. The most common diameter is the 7.5-8 mm which meets all standards for 300 lbs test. Also, what is your reason for getting rid of the EA and going to the MPD? As someone had said already, too many holes to fill in here. Not really sure you fully understand what a personal escape system and devices are.

Perhaps I am wrong in what you guys consider a Bailout system.... I just carry that stuff for everything.

[FFBlaser 24]

Nate, why in the world would you give up 1/4 inch which is about 9-10mm rope as a bail out system and go to 1/2 inch or 12.5-13.0 mm. As a bail out system, this just does not make sense. A bailout is a 300 lbs load. Why in the world would you increase it to 1/2 rope which now would be a 600 lbs load tested rope?? Not sure how they do things out there, but based on NFPA, for bailout systems, 8-9 mm is what is recommended as the max diameter for rope. The most common diameter is the 7.5-8 mm which meets all standards for 300 lbs test. Also, what is your reason for getting rid of the EA and going to the MPD? As someone had said already, too many holes to fill in here. Not really sure you fully understand what a personal escape system and devices are.

I think the definition of Personal Escape System is varied by type of training.