AED's and cold weather

[JScott128 41]

My Police Dept has told all officers that the AED's can not be left in the patrol cars at the end of the shift because the cold weather will kill the batteries. I saw the other thread about camera batteries and cold weather so I thought I would ask about AED's. Does any other police/fire/ems departments remove the AED's from vehicles that are not being used because of cold weather? I called the manufacturer of our AED, they stated that the storage temp is -22F to I think it was 149F. When I asked our local medics if they remove them, they said they do not, and you shouldn't have to, they are built to military specs. When I brought this up to my administration, they changed the policy to allow us to leave the AED's in the car. Does anyone else remove them?

Scott

[PFDRes47cue 653]

When I have my agencies Officer's Car, I always bring in the AED at night when it is cold to be safe and to not destroy the battery or the entire AED.

It is not the storage temperature that is the issue necessarily, it is the idea that when the AED goes from cold to warm when brought in for a call and turned on, the parts of the AED begin to warm up and condensation is created. This moisture can damage the components of the AED. Also, this moisture can then freeze when put back into the vehicle. The same goes for laptops...

The police up near where I go to school remove the AED's from the cars when the car is not being used during the winter because temperatures can often fall to -25 and beyond which is below the manufacturers recommended storage temperature range.

[JScott128 41]

Thanks for the reply. But I would think the AED's are "rugged" enough to deal with condensation issues and that the manufacturers would have addressed this. Do you know if the operating manual addresses condensation issues? Also, if you are concerned with the condensation caused by bringing the AED from the car into a warm environment at a call, aren't you adding to the problem by taking it out of the car every night?

[NWFDMedic 58]

You've got to take the oxygen tank out anyway, why not take the AED too?

[JScott128 41]

You've got to take the oxygen tank out anyway, why not take the AED too?

Why do you have to take the O2 out? We had a Sgt that told us we had to because the cold O2 is bad for the patient, but it is the same temp that the first responders are breathing, and a ER doc told us that it wasn't bad for a patient. Is it because there is less pressure? We do do not take the O2 out of our patrol cars.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Thanks for the reply. But I would think the AED's are "rugged" enough to deal with condensation issues and that the manufacturers would have addressed this. Do you know if the operating manual addresses condensation issues? Also, if you are concerned with the condensation caused by bringing the AED from the car into a warm environment at a call, aren't you adding to the problem by taking it out of the car every night?

If not taken out early enough then yes, you are adding to the problem. Typically, the cars heating system keeps the inside temperature of the car close enough to inside temperatures found in a home. So the change from car to home is not that great when the car is warm from being used during the day. However, after sitting overnight, obviously the temperature difference is much greater. In the morning, I put the AED back into the car after the car has warmed up a little.

My rule of thumb is, if I do not like sitting in the temperature, neither do electronics.

[kurt 5]

Not sure what brand aed you have but the one I have we thought we could leave them out and found when they get cold they start to beep at you and then you have to pull batterie out and put them back in and go threw self test I have the philips heart starter frx

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Not sure what brand aed you have but the one I have we thought we could leave them out and found when they get cold they start to beep at you and then you have to pull batterie out and put them back in and go threw self test I have the philips heart starter frx

Yes, we experienced the same problem...had to actually replace batteries more often then we thought we would have too.

[ComputerGuy 3]

Lifepak 500 Brochure:

http://www.aedsuperstore.com/assets/images/pdf/aedbrochures/Medtronic%20LifePAK%20500%20AED%20Brochure.pdf

"Operating temperature" is between 32 and 149 degrees.

[ComputerGuy 3]

To clarify my last post. This is not a battery issue, but an operating issue. From Medtronics view, the device must be at least 32 degrees to properly operate. Bringing it from a very cold vehicle into a warm house does not count, the device itself is still to cold to operate. They go on to say that the device may be stored at -22, without batteries or electrodes. Reading between the legal lines, a lifepak below 32 degrees should not have a battery in it. If it does not work, the manufacture has no liability. That being said, I'd rather have a cold AED then no AED.

Edited January 24, 2011 by ComputerGuy

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

What about saline solutions in jump kits/medical bags? I had my 250ml 0.9% saline solution bottles more useful as a brick then as solution the other day even after a 2hr drive in a heated car. I know it was cold up here in Vermont but I had no idea I had to worry about saline solution.

[ndpemt519 10]

Why don't you just bring your gear inside at night anyway? This way you know the electronics will work. And warm gear (O2, saline, etc) will be more comfortable and better for the patient, and after all isn't the patient why we're here?????? Instead of worrying about if "cold oxygen is bad", lets go back to basics and make the patient comfortable!

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Why don't you just bring your gear inside at night anyway? This way you know the electronics will work. And warm gear (O2, saline, etc) will be more comfortable and better for the patient, and after all isn't the patient why we're here?????? Instead of worrying about if "cold oxygen is bad", lets go back to basics and make the patient comfortable!

The same goes for fire turnout gear...last night in Potsdam we reached -36 degrees and had 4 calls between between 3AM and 8AM. Thankfully, I remembered to bring my turnout gear inside. Nothing worse then putting on clothes that are -36 degrees!

Stay warm everyone!

[Goose 188]

What about saline solutions in jump kits/medical bags? I had my 250ml 0.9% saline solution bottles more useful as a brick then as solution the other day even after a 2hr drive in a heated car. I know it was cold up here in Vermont but I had no idea I had to worry about saline solution.

IV bag warmers are a god send. Holds 2 1000cc bags and keeps them toasty...plugs directly into the bus. As far as other stuff...if a bus is being kept outside, probably should have a heater in it or bring the gear inside, especially on the ALS level.

[paro22 1]

Yes, we experienced the same problem...had to actually replace batteries more often then we thought we would have too.

Me too. I believe the operating range for the Phillips Heartstart is 32º - 122º F. Mine usually starts to beep & indicate low battery at under 20-25 F, and i try to take it inside at nights. However, I have forgotten & left it in the trunk for several days of below 15 temps, and after warming up & resetting, it always seems to be back to normal with the battery still full.

I never take my O2 inside...should i? What about BLS meds like albuterol & Epi?

[JohnnyOV 2]

Found a great article on storage of EMS - ground transport meds, and temperatures associated with storing them without the use of a controlled environment.

http://www.emsworld....&siteSection=18

I never take my O2 inside...should i? What about BLS meds like albuterol & Epi?

Depends on whether its 1:1,000 or 1:10,000 epi.

the 1:10,000 epinephrine that was exposed to cyclical heating underwent significant degradation, losing 64% of its potency after the 12-week experiment.

Edited January 24, 2011 by JohnnyOV