Low-Profile SCBA Prototypes

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Saw this article while sitting at the fire station this morning after a call and finding out my classes were cancelled for the morning...

Several SCBA Manufactures Develop Low-Profile Prototype

Personally I have a few concerns about the low-profile designs. One would be trusting the flexible containers when filled to high PSI's. I like the idea of a flexible SCBA that allows for better maneuverability but I do not know if I will trust it as much as a traditional rigid design. Is the soft and flexible material as heat resistant as tradition designs?

Also, sometimes firefighter need to attach rope to the sturdy frame of traditional SCBA packs. How would you go about doing this now?

The article address firefighters concerns about its length...I am interested to see how much short new prototypes are.

Acceptance of the low-profile pack will have to be accompanied by other changes in apparatus seat design, storage compartments and fill stations.

Will fire departments be willing to get new seats for their rigs, buy new fill stations, redesign SCBA storage on apparatus?

The Vulcore-High-Flex 808 low-profile pack is equipped with quick disconnect buckles, allowing it to be replaced with a fresh unit without removing the harness.

Traditional packs can also be changed very quickly without being removed.

Two advantages are that the design is lighter than a traditional SCBA and that the low-profile will leave less firefighters taking their packs off to fit through tight places. This will save time and energy in the event of being trapped, injured, etc.

Interest to hear some other opinions...

Edited February 2, 2011 by PFDRes47cue

[mfc2257 464]

With regard to concern over the flexible design vs. rigid insofar as ability to hold high pressures, strength, and heat resistance.... Since synthetics have been used for decades for airbags (high and low pressure) which are capable of lifting multi ton loads, I would suspect that there are absolutely materials available that would be suitable for a synthetic SCBA. As far as heat resistance is concerned, much of our protective gear currently is made of synthetic material that is heat resistant, just look at the low pressure hoses that have been used for years to supply our SCBA regulators.

While the potential exists for these to be available by 2012, and they are intriguing, I would suspect that deployment of such a radical redesign will take years to implement even if the fire service immediately embraces the technology. Apparatus storage of spare units alone will represent a challenge. No more neatly stacked rows of SCBA cylinders, no more wheel well storage, and of course... The redesign, retrofit, or other modification to jump seats on existing apparatus.

Great move forward but it's going to take a while until its practical.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

While the potential exists for these to be available by 2012, and they are intriguing, I would suspect that deployment of such a radical redesign will take years to implement even if the fire service immediately embraces the technology. Apparatus storage of spare units alone will represent a challenge. No more neatly stacked rows of SCBA cylinders, no more wheel well storage, and of course... The redesign, retrofit, or other modification to jump seats on existing apparatus.

Great move forward but it's going to take a while until its practical.

I would imagine that these can just be stood up one in front of the other in a box or something to store. As for he wheel well storage, I wonder if these can be rolled up and stuck into the storage compartment.

Edited February 2, 2011 by PFDRes47cue

[firemoose827 324]

Just a few points for the original poster. First off very good post, good questions and you seem to be interested in being informed, thats a good thing!

As far as using the harness for rescue purposes, this can now be done using the DRD (Drag Rescue Device) that are now being used in Turnout coats more frequently. Each department should also be trying to outfit their members with harnesses as well, but it is costly. Even still, using simple rope rescue techniques and knots will do the trick as well. Know your knots and ropes, know your tools and their many uses and think outside of the box. As firefighters we should never be reliant on any one skill, tool, or technique but instead become familiar with multiple ways to do any one thing. Being flexible and knowing many different techniques is always a good thing.

These packs are still in the testing phase and as far as I know are still a long way from being ready for service so the more input these manufacturers have the better the product will become. Hopefully some of them are reading these posts?????

[x635 4,066]

I also read about this in Fire Apparatus And Equipment Magazine. I think this will be the next big revolution in the fire service. It is also being spec'd for military purposes, and that's where a lot of emergency services equipment innovations originate.

[FFPCogs 863]

Interesting design and at face value it seems worthy of further research and trials. Storage should not be that big of a deal other than any conversion expenses for jumpseats and moving arond some equipment in compartmets.

I have seen a similar approach on the Science channel ( I think). The design there was far more rigid and the tank and frame were more streamlined and seamlessly combined. Interestingly, along with air bladders it also incorporated a 2 or 2.5 gallon water resevoir with a hose and nozzle that extends down one arm for self protection or extinguising small fires (makes everyone a canman without the can I guess you could say). Unfortunately I don't remember the manufacturer.

Assuming this all works out, like any new technology I think it will be awhile before we see this type of system in widespread use, although attractive pricing and a trade in/credit program for existing SCBA may speed up the process.

If they get up my way for trials I'd definitely like to give em a shot.

Cogs

Edited February 2, 2011 by FFPCogs

[firecapt32 282]

Looks interesting-- for those of you that have questions concerning this send them to me. I will be attending the FDIC in March and will seek answers to your questions. Promise to get back to you with answers.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Just a few points for the original poster. First off very good post, good questions and you seem to be interested in being informed, thats a good thing!

As far as using the harness for rescue purposes, this can now be done using the DRD (Drag Rescue Device) that are now being used in Turnout coats more frequently. Each department should also be trying to outfit their members with harnesses as well, but it is costly. Even still, using simple rope rescue techniques and knots will do the trick as well. Know your knots and ropes, know your tools and their many uses and think outside of the box. As firefighters we should never be reliant on any one skill, tool, or technique but instead become familiar with multiple ways to do any one thing. Being flexible and knowing many different techniques is always a good thing.

These packs are still in the testing phase and as far as I know are still a long way from being ready for service so the more input these manufacturers have the better the product will become. Hopefully some of them are reading these posts?????

While most fire departments are now outfitting firefighter with the DRD, and harnesses, I have found that most training still focuses on using the SCBA frame. I have spent time working with firefighter rescue, etc using the DRD and the harnesses but more frequently the SCBA frame. FF1, Firefighter Survival, F.A.S.T., etc are a few classes that to my knowledge still talk about the SCBA frame. I personally think that we should be focussing more on the DRD and harnesses...maybe this new style SCAB will push this switch along

I can't wait to be able to see one of these in person. Hopefully, there are opportunities to test them out in the near future. This might be the next big thing for the fire service.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I am curious to know how these new SCBAs react to firefighter search and rescue operations. I.e. converting the SCBA to a harness to drag the member out, I was told during FAST that the DRD in all of our coats should be tertiary to the SCBA harness conversion and ropes and knots to evacuate downed firefighters.

[Alpinerunner 61]

I saw this in a magazine around 6 months ago and I think this is HUGE. The reduced weight and low profile will definitely reduce injuries, reduce stuck FFs, allow FFs to search longer and farther by being less strained, and reduce heart attacks for the same reason. I have no doubt that these will be the new standard. Of course it's hard to say how long

[NJMedic 96]

It would appear from what I read and seen over the last several months that cab seats with the SCBA mounted in the backrest are falling out of favor.

Believe me if the new style of SCBA catches on the apparatus and equipment manufactures will develope of new storage system just to secure that corner of the market, would doubt they already have something cooked up.