Should ER Nurses Be Required To Attend Call Audits?

[x635 4,066]

Should ER nurses be required to attend call audits?

EMS providers interface with ER nurses everyday. We bring them our patients, and they see the results of our care, both good and bad.

I think it would lead to better working relationships between EMS providers and ER nurses if we discussed calls from both viewpoints.

I'm not a nurse, so I won't comment from that viewpoint. However, as an EMS provider, I believe that our care is an extension of the ER, and if we work together, we can really make in impact on patient care. Better transitions and coordination between our care and their can also result in better patient comfort and speedier care.

But, we rarely get or want to discuss this with nurses on a professional level while on duty, as both sides are busy. Call audits would be a great way to discuss calls in a focused enviroment.

[JJB531 652]

Personally I wish they would just do away with the call audits at a requirement to renew the MAC or find another way to make them more readily available to EMS providers through some type of web based program. Due to my work schedule, in addition to the days and times the audits are scheduled, I can not make the overwhelming majority of them. Therefore, my MAC gets suspended every 3 years for 6 months until I retake the protocol exam. 6 months of no side work is a big financial hit to the pocket, and I can not consistently take off of work just to attend audits on my own time with no monetary compensation.

[FD828 77]

Should ER nurses be required to attend call audits?

EMS providers interface with ER nurses everyday. We bring them our patients, and they see the results of our care, both good and bad.

I think it would lead to better working relationships between EMS providers and ER nurses if we discussed calls from both viewpoints.

I'm not a nurse, so I won't comment from that viewpoint. However, as an EMS provider, I believe that our care is an extension of the ER, and if we work together, we can really make in impact on patient care. Better transitions and coordination between our care and their can also result in better patient comfort and speedier care.

But, we rarely get or want to discuss this with nurses on a professional level while on duty, as both sides are busy. Call audits would be a great way to discuss calls in a focused enviroment.

How about nurses having to do some ride time with the EMS units that serve the ER? Call audits would be a good start, but I would love to have them come ride a shift or two as well.

[NWFDMedic 58]

Personally I wish they would just do away with the call audits at a requirement to renew the MAC or find another way to make them more readily available to EMS providers through some type of web based program. Due to my work schedule, in addition to the days and times the audits are scheduled, I can not make the overwhelming majority of them. Therefore, my MAC gets suspended every 3 years for 6 months until I retake the protocol exam. 6 months of no side work is a big financial hit to the pocket, and I can not consistently take off of work just to attend audits on my own time with no monetary compensation.

There are no less than 4 conferences every year where you can get your year's worth of CME in one day.

Edited March 20, 2011 by NWFDMedic

[NWFDMedic 58]

Should paramedics be required to go to nursing CME's? I think both sides are very different in the type of care they provide. We work under the doctor's license. Having a doctor at CME's is enough for me.

[ny10570 745]

I have a an excellent working relationship with the nurses at my primary hospital everywhere I've worked because I talk to them. Forcing call audits, CMEs or ride alongs aren't going to help. Take an extra minute to talk to them, ask about your patients and god forbid help out a bit. Some will always be evil Nurse Ratchet wannabe's but he majority are doing an under appreciated job for some ridiculous reason, just like us.

[JJB531 652]

There are no less than 4 conferences every year where you can get your year's worth of CME in one day.

CME's are different from call audits.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Nurses should have their own case audits to have their performance assessed and improved upon just like medics. Nurses don't have the licenses paramedics operate under so it really doesn't matter to me if they're at the audits or not.

What I want is more MD involvement and interaction. The system sucks because I can go to audits whereever I want and never have one of my calls reveiewed. Or I go to an audit and have another paramedic reviewing the calls. This does nothing for me.

The whole reason for call audits was supposedly quality improvement. We still don't have response time standards or guarantees that the services we have can get their buses on the road. But we can't have any new agencies working in the areas because of CON requirements.

Emergency services in NY are all messed up. Reading the threads here only highlights the bigger problems.

[x635 4,066]

I agree with the call audits, it's a bit much. The whole MAC system in Westchester is so complicated and requires a lot of time on the Medic's part. Especially since most employers don't pay for their employees to attend, as mentioned.

However, going over cases with nurses every now and then could be beneficial. They have more contact with the patient then the doctor, and nurses often can remember cases better. We also hand the patient directly over to a nurse, and they usually witness the patient care from that point until the patient is discharged from the ER or transferred to the floor.

Where's Tapout on all this?

[Tapout 42]

I'm here working at the local ER. I had just intended to lurk but you called me out! LOL Seth. I agree that ER nurses should attend call audits for the exact reasons Seth mentioned. Medics and RNs are so similarly trained and relied on. They should sit and discuss cases from literally beginning to discharge. And is love some ridealong time too! Got my emt from OLM and had a blast answering stacked calls and driving on sidewalks... kidding. Lunch over gotta run. Be safe and thanks for the post Seth.

[PEMO3 523]

How about nurses having to do some ride time with the EMS units that serve the ER? Call audits would be a good start, but I would love to have them come ride a shift or two as well.

I can say that back when NYC EMS was part of HHC the new ED nurses did a ride along tour with the EMS units. Is was a big benefit for them. The got to see the world is different in the field. It is a big difference for example between working a code in the ED with plenty of room, good lighting, and countless trained hands and working a code in the bathroom of an apartment on the top floor of a 5 story walk up where you have to stop at every landing to do CPR for a few minutes and continue not to mention while hauling the patient and your gear. I can say that most nurses that did ride alongs had a good relationship with the crews as they saw first hand that it was not a cake walk and were usually slow at making the "why didn't you do x,y & z".

Having ED nurses do call audits would be a valued asset but I feel if they go that route they should add in the NPs, PAs and MDs. Having their input on what they would like to see in patient care as well as hearing why certain things do not happen as they would like could only improve the relationship between EMS units and ED staff.