Fire Marshals in NY State

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I was just wondering how Fire Marshal duties are split up in NY State (not NYC, I know they run a totally different program where the FMs are all Peace Officers)

From the sounds of it you have county Fire Investigation Teams with State backup for K9s, etc. I almost never hear any Putnam/Westchester County units call for their local Fire Marshal at a structure fire, whereas in CT that's one of the first notifications we make when we have a working fire.

In CT the Local Fire Marshal has the authority to inspect, issue COs, investigate fires, etc. The State Fire Marshal's Office and CSP Fire Marshal Unit will come in to assist if requested, ATF as well if you really need the help. We don't have county (what we call regional) Fire Investigation Teams here, so I'm just wondering how you guys do things on that side of the line.

Just curious, depending on answers I'll have follow up questions, fair warning... haha.

[everybodygoes 331]

FDNY Marshal's are Police not Peace officers.

[pasobuff 38]

NYS does not have a State Fire Marshal - instead they have the Office of Fire Prevention and Control. Here is some background - and Article 6C of the Executive Law spells ~everything~ out.....

A Brief History

The Office of Fire Prevention and Control began shortly after World War II as the Division of Fire Safety within the New York State Office for Local Government. Based upon lessons learned during the war, the Division was involved with developing and implementing the statewide mutual aid plan system, adopting statewide emergency radio frequencies and setting up the New York State Fire Training Program. In 1967, the Division began conducting annual fire safety inspections of all State University buildings. In 1978, the Division of Fire Safety became the Office of Fire Prevention and Control within the Department of State and New Yorks first State Fire Administrator was appointed.

In June of 2010, OFPC was moved from the Department of State to a newly created agency, the Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Services (DHSES). The Wireless 911 initiative was moved from OFPC and placed within a newly created office, Office of Interoperable and Emergency Communications (OIEC), also within DHSES.

From an original handful of staff fifty years ago, OFPC has grown many times over in its size, duties and responsibilities.

In NY, the fire chief is charged with determining cause and origin of fires (I know it is in here somewhere, just can't find it at hte moment)......., and gml 91-a spells out responsibilities as far as authorization for investigation of burn injuries or wounds and to ascertain the cause of fires or explosions of suspicious origin.....pursue investigation.....etc etc....

ah ha - 204C provides for the plan for arson investigation - which is submitted by a County, and 204-d charges the fire chief to have the cause determined for fires....

Code enforcement varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction also - some places have dedicated officers, others contract, some placed the FD does it.....and OFPC also contracts with different state agencies to provide services.

There are also requirements for when OFPC must be notified - FF death, student injury, over a certain dollar loss, and others......

[grumpyff 1,159]

NYC Fire Marshalls have full police power, they are not peace officers. Here is a link to their history: http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/bfi/history.shtml. Outside of the city I am not too sure. Some places the investigation is by a county team comprised of police officer and trained firefighters. I will try to find more info when I get home. My cell phone battery is about to give out.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

My mistake, the point was FDNY can make arrests and has guns, we don't have too many Peace Officers in CT so I'm not 100% familiar with the term.

So basically what you're saying is many towns in NY don't even have a Fire Marshal. My followup question is who does Certificates of Occupancy, plan review, etc as it relates to fire safety. The Building Dept? You mentioned the local FD, I can't imagine local volunteer (and probably even some career) fire departments are trained or qualified to do that in-depth of an inspection.

Does NY State have any certification process for Fire officials who have inspection duties? How about investigators?

[firemoose827 324]

My mistake, the point was FDNY can make arrests and has guns, we don't have too many Peace Officers in CT so I'm not 100% familiar with the term.

So basically what you're saying is many towns in NY don't even have a Fire Marshal. My followup question is who does Certificates of Occupancy, plan review, etc as it relates to fire safety. The Building Dept? You mentioned the local FD, I can't imagine local volunteer (and probably even some career) fire departments are trained or qualified to do that in-depth of an inspection.

Does NY State have any certification process for Fire officials who have inspection duties? How about investigators?

Yes, the CO's and inspections are handled by Codes Enforcement Officials through the local Village/Town/City building departments. NYS has just recently had its pilot training course offered at the Fire Academy for Level I Fire Inspector which was offered to a special group of members from both OFPC and OPWDD Fire Safety Representatives.

As far as fire investigations, yes, the fire chief is responsible to determine the cause of every fire, in some instances with the assistance of the local county fire investigation teams. My counties is all volunteer, and have a mixed membership of county firefighters, sherrifs officers and state troopers all trained as NYS Level One Fire Investigators (Some have higher qualifications including our county deputy fire marshal who happens to be my assistant chief). We use the State Trooper Labarotory for any evidence analysis that needs to be done.

[JetPhoto 626]

In Dutchess most places have some kind of Fire or Building inspectors that do the CO's construction compliance code violations etc. These are usually town / village / city employees who have to go to "X" amount of codes classes. They are not responsible for investigating fires that is primarily up to the fire chief. Some municipalities have their own fire investigation teams or use the county fire investigations. Either way their are LEO's on the team. If deemed necessary they can request assistance from the state.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Interesting. Thanks for the info guys, didn't realize things were done so differently in NY.

Here's a quick rundown of how it runs in CT:

Local Fire Marshals are responsible by statute to determine Origin and Cause of all fires, inspect properties, etc.

The State administers pre-certification exams for the following Fire Officials:

1. Fire Marshal

2. Deputy Fire Marshal

3. Fire Inspector

4. Fire Safety Code Inspector

5. Hazardous Materials Inspector

6. Fire Investigator

A candidate is only PRE-Certified until a town accepts them as a FM, DFM, etc. Only when they are hired by a town can they be a Connecticut Certified (insert title here.) I believe Deputy Fire Marshals and Fire Marshals take ALL of those certifications as modules, and can only be pre-certified as a FM or DFM after passing all the others.

That being said, there are also 2 other Fire Investigation certifications out there, Certified Fire Investigator (this is the REALLY long one that involves court time, etc) and Certified Fire and Explosion Investigator. Neither of which are "state certified" courses, they are professional certifications. The only difference is CFI's can testify as expert witnesses in federal court, if I recall correctly.

As far as the state goes, the State Fire Marshal is appointed by the Governor and is responsible for enforcing the CT State Fire and Life Safety Code, usually this individual comes from the Fire Service. He oversees various units, but the one we normally deal with is the State Police's Fire Marshals. They are State Troopers detailed to assist in investigations, some of which are K9 handlers. In addition the State Police assigned to the Fire Marshal also do inspections of carnival rides, etc.

I'd imagine working with the ATF is the same in CT as it is in NY.

[provfd 49]

ATF is a federal agency, so there is no difference anywhere.

[firefighter36 52]

Nassau County, NY has a Fire Marshal's Office. They are armed peace officers. In addition, many towns on Long Island also employ Fire Marshals, who are also armed peace officers. Islip is one that comes to mind. Most of these agencies serve in both code enforcement and law enforcement functions.