MJP399

Ugh... more OVAC people... swell.

I don't know, but it sure sounds like Briarcliff is going to Ossining allot for Mutual aid EMS...

85 MPH, Thats the right lane of I-684 !

Now, now, Barry, you can't use this argument. The FD has been taking responsibility for other peoples stupidity for the past 200 yrs!

What if we promise them "Tsunami Technician" t-shirts?

Ive read this post many times and I still fail to see the reason for posting it but it most certainly requires a response.
From what I know of you, you have no background in Law Enforcement so your ideas of how cops should feel about being cops and what they should do on duty may be how it is in a perfect world but in reality thats not how it works. This would be like me who knows nothing of fire fighting making critical observations about the fire service and putting all over the post " No offense guys" and " this is not a knock to firefighters".
As far as I've seen, you're the only member on here from texas so you are the only one who could answer your own question of " why are police officers down here so different ?"
I've been a cop for 12 years and I go balls to the wall every day I go into work as do most cops I know. Would it be nice to follow up with every crime victim we deal with ? Yes but we don't have the time or the manpower to do that stuff. How do you know that cops up here don't know their post as well as cops in Texas ?
Cops are in a unique situation to be cross trained in rescue, where as FD's can't be trained in law enforcement specific things... thats just the way it is.
You ask why is there competition ? There always has and always will be competiton in the emergency services and it's healthy to a degree.
You ask why are there not more hudson river patrols ? There are in the summer but not so much in the winter but what does one thing have to do with the other ?
The bottom line is that expanding the scope of your working capabilities means more job security and possibly more state and federal funding.
The biggest difference between cops up here and cops in texas is that maybe cops in texas enjoy a lot more community support than cops in the north east get.

Thanks for the intelligent reply. It's much better to see that some actually can think rather than put out the old argument of "what if your family lives next to a fire house that's closed?"
You are right that "call volume" isn't the best way to allocate staffing. However, I'm fairly certain that the FDNY would track things such as personnel used and manhours per incident. That, along with response time and a few other factors can lead to a better analysis of the system's needs. As far as knowing "when and where" your calls are going to be, you obviously cannot plan the exact time and location but you can very easily model trends, especially in an area with as high a volume as NYC. That's the principle behind system status management, generally predicting the area of the next call and positioning resources to handle that call.
One of the previous posters said that his company is second due for a structure fire that is 10 minutes away if a first structure fire is already going. My next question to that would be how often does this happen. If it happens once a year, then it may not pay to add resources. If it happens once a week, then staffing might have to be increased. This is all learned through proper analysis of the system, something which nobody appears willing to do. The government just wants to cut; the Union just wants to save jobs ... neither is a productive view.

Where I live, which is pretty far away from everyone else on this forum, County 911 always tones out FD for all MVA's, whether its a Code 2 (MVA w/o injuries) or Code 4 (MVA w/ injuries). On Code 2's FD responds for traffic control without lights or sirens. On Code 4's EMS and FD respond. At my FD when we get paged out for a Code 2 we send our utility truck for TC and for a Code 4 we send a rescue (1st) and usually engine depending on how many people show up. Just a little info on how things go down here.

Timber.....Sorry I had to do it.

Your right I did not ask about your fire district, I 1st asked why and what type of foam would be used. In my experience 90% of firefighters either use foam improperly or dont understand why they are using foam. You answered my question by stating you did not know what chemicals are found in YOUR fire district.
My 2nd question was a general question about how fire fighters gather information about hazards in there district.
Yes and I also asked a very simple question for all firefighters.
If you thought my questions was an attack on your department, then you could have simply not answered me. Since I do not know which dept you are with and you did respond that your dept. cant answer the question than I guess party time is over and you and your dept needs to get back to work. I sorry you feel I'm a kill joy and I've ruined the topic for you. My intent is to get others to consider this issue and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. To many firefighters have died or been injured because they do not have information available to them.
There are many "hard" questions that need to be asked in the fire service. This one fire should open the door to asking "how are we doing" and "can we do it better"?
I'm sorry that you feel you are the only one with the RIGHT to ask a question on here. Since you can not answer my general question, then maybe you need to think a little longer about what questions are important in the fire service.
If you can not take the heat (of a simple question) get out of the fire.
Thank you.

and lack of curiosity and knowledge kills fire fighters.
The building and its contents are the enemy

Agreed. But what is truly achieved when it is aired out on a public forum? We all know we have room to improve, but when we specifically call out certain agencies or certain incidents we go against what the original intent of this forum was! When Seth started this forum we could talk tactics and ways to improve things without hating on one agency or a call. Now it's a free for all where everytime a photo is posted, it gets criticized. When an Incident Alert is posted, times are questioned.
If you really want to question something, ask those involved. Airing it out for all to see is a HUGE MISTAKE! People are going to get in trouble, the press is going to print things that are hurtful and non-constructive, and the public is going to think we're all a bunch of cry babies!
Bring back the old EMTBravo.net where we would praise in public, and insult/question eachother in private!
It's bad enough that morons go on Facebook, Twitter, etc. airing out departmental issues, insulting other departments, etc. We're all suppost to be BROTHERS - grow up and speak to those you have an issue with, don't air out your dirty laundry for everyone to see! I'm tired of seeing guys getting their rocks off by seeing others look bad.
I was one of the original members here, I check it more than once a day and try to always be positive. But over the past couple of months I find myself losing interest. Let's put aside the BS and actually offer constructive criticism without the finger-pointing.
Life is stressful enough, we don't need another avenue of disappointment.

I think this thread has morphed into something other then what was intended. A question was asked about one specific timeframe in Croton and the discussion is now about general EMS staffing and response issues. If there's no other input about Croton on the date/time in question, please move the general discussion to another thread.
Thank you.

There's some other agencies out there that are in far worst shape. I guess because they're not on 46.26, it doesn't count?
Even if both of the Croton ambulances were crewed the other day, two calls would have went to Mutual Aid.
Should an ambulance show up everytime it is dispatched? Yes. Is it a reality when you do not have paid staffing, you lack available volunteer resources and most of your members can't afford to live in the jurisdiction they belong to? No.
The issue here shouldn't be aired out on this forum. If someone has a legitimate concern about the response capabilities of Croton EMS, then contact Croton EMS direct.
That is all.
Here is their contact information: CEMS

Clearly you fail to understand how EMS in the rural areas often rely on licensed fire responders at all levels to begin care. Having started in a small rural community where the closest mutual aid ambulance was 20 minutes out, I can attest that having members properly equipped to assist patients is not a disservice of any sort. Aside from administering oxygen, bleeding control, assisting with EPI-pens, spinal immobilization, CPR and even defibrillation are often performed by first responders with success. Not to mention being able to assess the situation and ammend the response appropriately.

I know you tried to explain this statement in a subsequent post, but you're missing FFEMT150's point competely.
He is not saying that the volunteers signed up to volunteer, but now want paychecks. He is saying there aren't enough people in the community that want to volunteer, so it becomes impossible for the EXISTING volunteers to make all the calls... hense the need for career EMTs.
Career members aren't expected to make all of the calls in their district, and neither are volunteers. A volunteers system's strength is in numbers. A career FF (and probably EMT) usually makes 25% of the total calls in their district. I know many volunteers that make 40-60% of the total calls in their district in an effort to pick up the slack from the lack of NUMBERS of volunteers.

That was a totally uncalled for statement. There are still many volunteers out there who are extremely dedicated. Unfortunately, due to larger call volumes, those "handfuls" of volunteers who are willing to drop anything and run to a call cannot do it all themselves. Whether you are a volunteer or not, you still have work, family, and personal committments.
Yes, a true volunteer does it from the heart and does not expect anything in return. You totally missed the point here and just used it as a chance to criticize volunteers.

I will have to agree with Chris, the Pleasantville Vac rehab was excellent, an amazing resource for a day like yesterday. Thank you for being there and very professional and proactive!

I was at work so didn't respond to this job but since the door has been opened I'll step through. Some bullet point comments on Seth's post.
First and foremost, everyone went home some minor injuries, smoke inhalation aside. The two brothers in Bridgeport were not so lucky yesterday.
Above, pre-plans and response policies were questioned and referred to as "antiquated" in Westchester. I do not know how Briarcliff operates, but I can tell you that many volunteer and career departments alike in Westchester have detailed greater alarm response policies in the CAD at 60 control and are often executed automatically without any radio transmissions necessary. In addition to that, the county "battalion cars" act as the resource officer at jobs, taking pressure off of the IC. I do not know all of the battalions personally but I will tell you two I do know bring to the table plenty of experience to know when to "suggest" to IC's when to request additional resources.
I am quite sure this fire could have been run differently, as every single fire is different and different IC's will not run the same
fire the same way. It is quite possible that had this job had occurred in another district it would have sounded more "professional" on the air. Maybe some unknown department that sounds great on the air loses the entire structure, maybe not? How u sound on the air means dick when u have someone trapped above the fire and everyone is looking at you to make a decision.
Most volunteer rescue companies in Westchester were born from fire police. Just because a particular company carries certain tools does
not mean that their membership is as specialized as their toolbox.
FAST in the weather conditions yesterday needed to be properly relieved. A good proactive FAST is doing more than anyone realizes, just being bunkered up and ready to roll on a day like yesterday is taxing on the body. If after rehab the IC chooses to use the relieved FAST for overhaul or salvage rather than request additional resources, I don't see an issue. I see it done often.
Radio discipline is a issue everywhere. And I do mean everywhere, ever hear tapes of ground ops channels from highly regarded paid
departments where maydays are stepped all over due to poor radio discipline?
The fire service is reactive by nature, if if Black Friday had never occurred PSS systems would not be an NFPA standard today. Each member from the to the IC down to the probie has to take a personal inventory after each job and ask him/herself how they can be better and safer next time.
I think in a forum such as this positivity is key. Every member can learn something from every run...
Stay Safe and Hydrate...

Pleasantville vac rehab unit deserves alot of credit they did a great job. Thanks ..

I'd also like to give a shout out to The Journal News / Lohud.com for it's top-notch non-existent coverage of this fire.

The biggest problem with letting people call to calls isn't so much the employer, it's the location of the job. So few volunteer firefighters actually work in the community they live / belong to. In a lot of the sleeper communities like mine, those guys that do work in our village either own their business, work on the railroad or work from home. For those that run their own business, they can't exactly leave every time the pager goes off, because that could lead to lost profits.
The guys on the railroad can leave, but they have to punch out, so that's money lost. (Unless this changed) Not to mention, in some of the facilities in Harmon Yards, the pagers don't go off.
And those that work from home, in some cases, double as parents. It's not exactly easy (or legal) to ditch the kids at home to go on a fire call.
I think this legislation may help some guys out, but in the grand scheme of things, it's exactly what Chris192 (I think) said - "feel good legislation." It sounds and looks great at first glance, but if your boss doesn't want you leaving or coming in late because of calls - he'll find a way to fire you - guaranteed. If you're vital to his operation and you constantly bail for automatic alarms or CO calls - he's not going to be happy.
Not a bad piece of legislation, but like most of them, there's loop holes.

pro·fes·sion·al   /prəˈfɛʃənl/ Show Spelled[pruh-fesh-uh-nl] Show IPA
–adjective
1.following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder
noun
11.a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.
What a ridiculous motto. Makes no sense according to the definition. I think Ive seen this also on Yorktown's chief car once.

First off let me start by saying that this post is by no means trying to discredit other departments or their procedures/policies. As it will be explained we arrived to our decisons based off of research. I am an Asst. Chief/member of the Highland Fire District. I am going to try and set the record straight in regards to the decisions that were made in last nights multiple structure fire incidents and in future incidents to come. As most of you are aware while Milton's Structure fire was wrapping up, we were dispatched to a poss. chimney fire on pretty much the farthest end of our district. New Paltz was dispatched with an engine on the inital dispatch. Upon arriving the 2nd alarm assignment was requested. That would normally bring an engine and manpower from one of our surrounding depts.Being that Marlboro was standing by at Milton's headquarters, Car 31 requested that they be dispatched to our location with their engine and manpower. Now normally we would have Marlboro's FAST Team dispatched on that assignment, but the fact that we were utilizing them for another assignment, it was decided to dispatch our backup FAST Team Hughsonville. Now the question is why Hughsonville? And the answer to that is .... their overall FAST Operation is in many ways the same. They require their members to attend and stay current with training, they have a set of FAST SOP's (some departments that we looked at did not), they will not respond if certain criteria is not met... (ie. at least 4 members on the truck before it responds)... you know pretty much not going to do a job that is asked of you with JUST THE MINIMUM. Yeah it may take the in excess of 20 minutes.... and for the record it was a 17 minute response for last nights incident. And I will say one thing for the first time being used it went very well. They did what you would expect from a FAST Team and then some. The decsion to utilize them took MONTHS not hours or days like I am sure that most of you are thinking or believing, but MONTHS.
If anyone has any further questions please feel free to contact me.
Thanks again to ALL of the Mutual Aid Companies that assisted at last nights incident. You assistance was GREATLY APPRECIATED !!!

Fire #1
87 Brook Street "Nappy Auto Collision & Repair"
Croton FD Units: 2082, 2083, E118, E119, E120, TL44, R18
Montrose FD Units: 2271, TL8
Ossining FD Units: 2332, 2334, E98, U51 (FAST)
Buchanan FD Units: 2553, U12 (Cascade)
Croton EMS: 5511, 55B2
Cortlandt EMS: 88B2
Ossining EMS: 36M1, 7405
WCDES: Battalion 10, C&O Zone 4
RELOCATED TO CROTON: Montrose E123, Yorktown L51
Info: CFD full assignment dispatched at 16:09 for heavy smoke coming from the building. CPD (who could see it from their HQ) updated as working fire right after dispatch. Fire in rear of 100 x 150 two story autobody shop with apartment above. Cars 2082 & 2083, E118 on location within 3 minutes, E119 & TL44 one minute after, E120 & R18 two minutes after that. Crews made entry and put two 2 1/2" lines to work, while simultaneously opened up the roof on the single story shop garage, conducted searches and laddered the building with portable ladders. (Truck had no access due to downed wires and trees). A 2nd Truck was requested (Montrose TL8) to position in the rear on Terrace Place and to assist opening up. Main body of fire knocked down 20 minutes after arrival, under control 40 minutes after arrival. Mutual Aid companies picked up at 17:25, all units off the scene at 18:52. One occupant to the hospital with smoke inhalation.
Fire #2
702 Half Moon Bay Drive
Croton FD Units: 2084, E120
Montrose FD Units: 2271, 2274, E123 (Cancelled en route & sent back to CFD for coverage)
Yorktown FD Units: 2534, L51
Ossining FD Units: 2332, 2334, E97, E98, U51 (FAST) (Cancelled en route)
Croton EMS: 55B2
Cortlandt EMS: Cancelled en route
WCDES: Battalion 10 (AKA 2084) & C&O Zone 4
Info: CFD, E123 and L51 dispatched for a basement fire at 18:11. E120 & L51 on location at 18:16 with smoke showing and sprinkler activated. Initial crews found fire in basement level being contained by sprinkler, 10-75 requested. 2084 had the command, L51 had the aerial to the roof as a precaution. The 10-75 assignment was cancelled enroute as the fire was knocked down quick. 1 L/S/O - fire contained to basement level storage room. All units up at 19:45.
On behalf of the Croton FD, THANK YOU to Ossining FD, Montrose FD, Yorktown FD, Buchanan FD, Croton EMS, Croton PD, Croton DPW, Cortlandt VAC, Ossining EMS and of course - 60 Control - for an awesome job! Thanks for the continued support.