ny10570

Why does it matter aside from maybe helping figure out what is wrong with the patient? Forget about how its just wrong to treat someone differently based upon a medical condition, what if they don't know they're carrying some disease. Everyone gets treated the same unless I suspect an infection requiring droplet precautions.

Moderator note: This was the very last post made by Lenny, before he left us for keeps. RIP.

PEMO3 how long have you been out of NYC? Since I got on on '06 we've been doing field pronouncements. Pissed off 6'3" 220lb brother screaming you'd better save his life = transport no matter how cold and dead his brother was. I've had very few families get upset and the few that did actually thanked us after calmly explaining what we did, what the hospital would have done, and what they can now do. I am a huge advocate for field termination and that's before you start considering the risks to the crews carry the pt and transporting to the ER. Public places, businesses, or volatile situations get transported. Otherwise we clean up as best we can, inform the family, and leave with PD. You don't need training, just compassion and common sense.

For any doubting the benefits of working arrests in the field, look at the horrible CPR thats performed during packaging and transport. They've already been down for however long it took you to be notified and respond. Add the time you spend for just the initial interventions and medications. In NYC, the average best case scenario for in home cardiac arrest without bystander CPR is 6 to 8 minutes from arrest to first responder. Another 12 to 18 for first round of ALS interventions. Interrupting quality CPR at this point just to get to an ER that will essentially push the same drugs you would isn't helping the patient. Stay, give it your best effort, and ensure quality CPR.

Problem Solved!

lol

Transit already has 'em

http://communitym.com/article_images/police%20at%20subway%20stop.jpg

Never understood why you guys carry full spares. Getting flats has got to be rare enough and keep you out of service long enough that it'd be cheaper to handle with a roving repair unit or back at the precinct.

Definitely TL5. The lettered SCBA brackets, fleur de lis, and compartment layout give it away. The spec doesn't mention it, but did they include the lost finger tip in the rear A/C blower??

HazMat is an especially contentious issue in NYC because technically the NYPD is the lead agency until the incident is determined to not be terrorism or criminal. However the FDNY is still to be in charge of decontamination and mitigation. NYPD frequently does not notify FD of suspected HazMat calls while they investigate them. This is not speculation, since I started working in Manhattan I have witnessed this on multiple occasions. This has been going on for years though. 9/11 hasn't changed anything, as HM1 is probably busier now than it was before.

The volume seems about right. The truck takes an inordinate amount of abuse for the sheer number of miles it covers.

Fire Chiefs Claim Cop Commanders Hinder Them At Emergencies

http://thechiefleader.com/news/news_of_the_week/fire-chiefs-claim-cop-commanders-hinder-them-at-emergencies/article_0d442094-c9cf-11e1-8f17-001a4bcf6878.html

That NPR article is from when NYC first proposed the tax and is talking about Peteluma California. I do not believe NYC ever actually started charging the crash tax.

Industry standard is typically not a cause for action. Rather, collective bargaining agreements are the proper avenue, at which point a PERB or similar complaint can be made, or if need be an Article 78 hearing.

If CBA's don't dictate staffing, there is no such thing as "minimum" in the legal sense. Rather, the "minimum" is whatever the city says it is.

True, the standard alone isn't enough. However a member's injury that could have been prevented with proper staffing would be cause.

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2012/07/11/metro-north-to-test-smartphone-based-paperless-tickets/

Looks like MetroNorth is leading the way with the latest ticketing innovation. Anyone that has tried to purchase a peak ticket at a busy station while rushing to catch a train can attest to the pains of waiting for someone to try and force some crusty bottom of your shoe bill into a machine while you frantically wait. I'm looking forward to this.

With NFPA being the industry standard, has anyone tried suing any dept under 1710 to compel proper staffing? Seems like an injury as a result of decreased staffing would be a good starting point.

If everyone would just keep that info in their purse or wallet none of this ice, yellow dot, etc junk would be necessary. Do yourselves a favor. Emergency contact, med history, allergies and medications. Date it, update it as needed, and burry it in your wallet. I will find it when I pick your pocket, I promise.

The people being robbed by valets were handing over their house keys with their car keys. People programing their actual home address into their GPS have also gotten into trouble. People getting their identity stolen are handing over sensitive information. I'm not saying leave your DOB, social, and checking account number in there. My comment about the sheriffs not being stupid is I'm hoping they would not ask for sensitive info on that card. Personally my registration and insurance cards are copies with my address blacked out.

Unless the state is going to hand out and replace scanners you will have a system that few citizens use and even fewer agencies can read.

Assuming the state sheriffs aren't complete idiots the info in there wouldn't be that useful. Home address is already on your registration and insurance cards. An emergency contact name and phone number, medications, allergies, and medical conditions is pretty benign info. If they're breaking into your car, crank phone calls aren't really that profitable and generally not a priority for car thieves.

Ok let's look at this how the legal system will look at it .... the memo from the NYS DOH mentions while working in a EMS system. So we need to define EMS System first. And that will be: "a network of services coordinated to provide aid and medical assistance from primary response to definitive care, involving personnel trained in the rescue, stabilization, transportation, and advanced treatment of traumatic or medical emergencies. Linked by a communication system that operates on both a local and a regional level, EMS is a tiered system of care, which is usually initiated by citizen action in the form of a telephone call to an emergency number. Subsequent stages include the emergency medical dispatch, first medical responder, ambulance personnel, medium and heavy rescue equipment, and paramedic units, if necessary." Notice the it says trained in rescue.

Next they will look at Standards. Standards are enforcable in court. Such as AHA CPR Standard. We will look at the grandaddy of standards NFPA. Let's look at NFPA 1001: Standard for Fire Fighter Professional Qualifications. Before we get that some are volunteers, the word professional in this case don't mean paid.

1.1 Scope.

This standard identifies the minimum job performance requirements (JPRs) for career and

volunteer fire fighters whose duties are primarily structural in nature.

1.2 PurposeThe purpose of this standard shall be to ensure that persons meeting the requirements of this

standard who are engaged in fire fighting are qualified. It shall not be the intent of the standard

to restrict any jurisdiction from exceeding these requirements.

4.3*

Emergency Medical Care.

Minimum emergency medical care performance capabilities for entry-level personnel shall be

developed and validated by the AHJ to include infection control, CPR, bleeding control, and

shock management

Next they will look into your fire dept. Go pull out your by-laws or charter and I am sure it will state something very close in protecting life.

Now for an example for you. You get toned out to an auto accident with person ejected. You FD is there before the ambulance, you being a firefighter/emt where are you going to go 1st?

Hope this now helps

NYS makes it very easy to identify who is and who is not part of an EMS system. No agency number, then you're not an EMS agency and you are not part of the EMS system any more than any other resource they could call upon to help at a scene.

All of this from the NFPA blows back on the agency. They did not train you or certify you to operate in that capacity, then that is their responsibility as the AHJ.

Yes, firefighters are tasked with protecting life, but that is as firefighters. Stumble upon a gun battle, and they have no duty to act yet there is a threat to life.

Westchester could very easily operate just as efficiently and with just as many if not more resources with a centralized command structure. We have the staffing and manpower, but too often no where we need it when we need it.

Great idea, but ICE didn't catch on and neither will this.

Do you really believe this will affect the fire service? There are other plastic fuel can manufacturers out there. In only a few short seconds I found http://www.midwestcan.com/static.asp?path=2840 Made in the good ole US of A. They even make a 5 gallon metal "Jerry" can!

NYS statutes do not obligate an individual citizen, regardless of training, to respond to a situation or provide care unless there is a formal duty by job description or role expectation. Such a duty to act arises from participation with an agency having jurisdiction.

That says it all right there. Not an EMS response agency, no EMS responsibility in your job description, and no EMS expectation from you role equals you are a firefighter and not an EMT.

Unless I'm mistaken the Yonkers budget is still subject to comptroller approval for a few more years. So in June the city of hills will once again be trying to prevent state intervention and maintain their independence from an oversight committee. Yonkers was, is, and will continue to be at risk for state takeover. Why the nitpicking over semantics?

This one is easy ... 1st of all the Good Sam law in NY only works if you are outside your agency ... such as drivig down the road and see an accident and you choose to act. And the law only limits you as long as you don't work outside your training or do something stupid.

If you are an EMT (even though your FD does not provide an ambulance, please note that I said an ambulance) you still have a Duty to Act under your certification.

Now to take this step to a legal side, if the courts pull your fire departments mission statement, which they will, I am sure in one way or the other it states that your fire department mission is to protect lives. This to shows that as an EMT with your fire department you have a Duty To Act.

An EMT would not have a duty to act if they are operating as a firefighter in a non ems agency. The duty to act applies when you are with an agency with the authority to respond. His FD has no authority to respond to medical emergencies.

They are absolutely ridiculously handcuffed with what they can do. Simple things like down grading calls get handled swiftly and severely if they are wrong. They are their own little kingdom with an operations guide that regular field members cannot get access to. We definitely have some great dispatchers and when they're on the air, especially in the Bronx South it is a night and day difference. Too bad they're outnumbered by dead weight.

Like I said, ask the district lawyer. I can only extrapolate from other examples. If you are a physician working an ambulance as an EMT and you cric a patient prepare to lose your EMT card.

If you are on scene with the FD you act as a firefighter. Your agency is not an EMS agency and puts themselves at risk if they put you to work as an EMT. In NYC all firefighters whether they are EMTs or Medics on the outside operate as CFRs on an assignment. You should address this with your dept to establish a definitive policy. The district has a lawyer, put him to work.

#1 I am not a lwyer. My dad ius and he gives me EMS law stuff he comes across, and I read lot.

First, act within your scope of practice. Then imagine a scenario of you in front of a jury trying to justify why you did NOT act, while a lawyer points out why you should have, and see who would win. I bet the jury would say an EMT on a scene of an injury should act.

You asked if the FD is liable if "they have an .... hold c-spine" If "they" are not a credentialed agency, 'they" should prabably act within 'their" scope of practice and spread kitty litter and light flares etc. and not do stuff they are not credentailed to do. Just sayin'.

Sadly it should be noted your FD likey has insurance to cover the legal action if a victiim decides it is all your fault for the crick in his neck after he wrapped his car around a tree. An individual care giver does likely does NOT have insurance. I don't. I have been sued twice and have not had to write any checks. There is a legal term, I think called "caveat superior" (My HS latin teacher would croak!) that says that if you are working for someone and do what they tell you, then HE is on the hook for what you do. He may DENY telling you to do it in that situation!

There are many FF PD and EMS folks who have become lawyers or investigate for thise that are. Maybe they will comment on this thread?

I read recently of a Calif. case of a two car group of office workers. The lead car crashed and burned. The 2nd car folks got out and rescued someone from car 1, and paralized them while doing it. The vicitm sued the citizen savior, who invoked the good sam law as defense. The court ruled for the victim, saying good sam was for first aid givers, and that yanking the driver out of the buring car was a rescue, and therfore not covered.

I don't know of caveat superior. I know caveat emptor, Let the buyer beware.

The California case is from 2008 and was specific to California because the decision spoke directly to the language of the law. That being said, a similar decision could conceivably come down in NY or they could find their own reason to hang you out to dry.

This seems like an obvious one to me, but apparently it needs to be said...

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files//PDF/CodesStandards/SCBA_Alert_070212.pdf

Exposure to high temperature environments, which

firefighters can encounter during fires they are

attempting to extinguish, can result in the thermal

degradation or melting of a Self- Contained Breathing

Apparatus (SCBA) facepiece lens, resulting in

elimination of the protection meant for the user’s

respiratory system and exposing the user to products

of combustion and super heated air.

What makes you think Yonkers is close to being taken over by the state?

When the comptroller is reviewing your budget, I believe the next step is a state appointed supervisor. On June 27 when the Comptroller rejected Yonkers budget they were a few steps away from state take over.