ny10570

paint jobs do not improve visibility. If all the lights and reflective striping don't do it, no color is going to make a difference. The additional cost of painting the car is compounded by the additional cost of repairing these cars.
When they are slashing budgets and laying people off, every wasted dollar matters.

Does it really matter who posts RIP on of these threads? Its not like there's any unique info coming from this thread. The story is all over the media. So yes, on EMTBravo a thread about lights and consolidation os going to get a lot more attention than this tragedy. But that is only because there are better places to focus your concern than a thread here that just posts links to other sites.

paint jobs do not improve visibility. If all the lights and reflective striping don't do it, no color is going to make a difference. The additional cost of painting the car is compounded by the additional cost of repairing these cars.
When they are slashing budgets and laying people off, every wasted dollar matters.

paint jobs do not improve visibility. If all the lights and reflective striping don't do it, no color is going to make a difference. The additional cost of painting the car is compounded by the additional cost of repairing these cars.
When they are slashing budgets and laying people off, every wasted dollar matters.

Well they aren't, but everything is cyclical. Nicer parks should equal a more attractive municipality and this brings people, people who pay taxes. Also, most people will never need the fire department and it's not always at the forefront of their minds. This isn't right, because no one needs us until the REALLY need us, but it explains peoples attitudes.

There are several things "disturbing" about this recording:
1) It is a recording and not a video. We have been told that the guy was just walking down the street. We have no way of knowing any of his actions prior to the officer spotting him.
2) We also do not have any indication were the officer was other than in close proximity to the subject. Did the officer have cover or was it a naked confrontation? If the officer is caught in the open with no cover, then unless the guy is in uniform, he’s going to the ground.
3) Regardless if the guy has a permit or not if the officer gives instructions for his safety or that of others, follow his instructions Period!
4) The subject was recording this incident. He was able to quote rules. It seemed like he was looking for a confrontation.
5) The officer involved identified himself a sergeant. A sergeant in a City police department is not a kid out of rookie school. His instructions were clear, concise and he maintained control. There was no panic in his voice.
The subject tried to manipulate the confrontation to seem like he was a victim being picked on by the police. As we cannot see what is going on, it’s hard to know what’s actually occurring. I don’t know the area or the people involved. I don’t know how much the above contributed to the instructions that were given. But the fact is, if a police officer with a gun pointed at you gives you a command, obey it, period, end of story. As you can see by my profile, I am a retired police officer. I worked in a city and was involved in a shooting and several almost shootings. On one occasion, almost shot a detective in my own department who jumped a gun call. I responded to a man with a gun call and was the first uniform on the scene. I saw a guy standing over a man on the side walk with a shotgun in his hand. I instructed him to drop the gun several times and he failed to follow my directions. As he turned toward me with the gun still in his hand, I started to squeeze the trigger and continued to yell for him to drop the gun. At the last second, I saw a portable radio in the other hand and it gave me enough to pause. He then yelled he was a cop. A second later he later he would have been dead and I would have had to live with the fact that killed a good guy. Later, asked him why he did not do as I commanded. He told me that I should have recognized him and known he was a police officer. He had sun glasses on and just gotten his hair cut and I didn’t recognize him. It happened a long time ago and I still have bad memories about it.

Not at all. Add to your official duties documenting mechanism of injury and patient condition during extrication via photography and voila it is allowed. want to play it safe, as long as no patient photos are included this doesn't appear to apply.
This seems pretty simple. It applies only to those summoned to the scene. If you're not responding as a provider you're not covered.
If you are on scene working, any images recorded must be in accordance with your job. If you're wearing your helmet cam, if its part of a dept training program you should be allowed. Still unsure, after everything is said and done. Reach out to the family, explain what was recorded and get a release signed.
No release signed, destroy all images. Release signed, utilize to the extent allowed by your agency's rules.
This just adds a penalty to what should already be common sense practice.

nycmedic you couldn't be more wrong. If they did start sending EMS off at the PD text we're going to have more units chasing bogus arrests. That will make our already slow response time slower. Currently we're averaging just over 7 minutes to 1-3 segments. Add fire to the mix and the response times drop to 4:28. This doesn't include call processing. Just dispatched to 84. Firefighters, due to their numbers can quickly dismount and get to the patient. By the time we gather all our crap and wait for the elevator (because stairs scare us) we've taken another minute or two longer than the engine. So since arrest, its been 90 seconds of call taking, 7 minutes of driving, and say...2 minutes till patient contact. Thats over 5 minutes of dying brain.
Then we have AHA's research saying it takes 6 or 8 (I can't remember which) to effectively run an arrest.
Then there's perks that aren't quantified. CFR's operate in their normal response area. We get yanked all over the city. How many times have you been unsure of the jobs location until you saw the giant red signal light sitting ifo? Then we have to get the patient out of the tiny apt packed with 20 years of crap and 5 floors up. How efficiently can you clear the hallways, get your crap, and get the patient out with just the 5 of you?
Drop the I don't need firefighters bull and do what's best for the patient. Multiple hands doing high quality cpr for two minute intervals. Fire will be facing cuts, but removing the CFR program will only cost more lives.

M'Ave you are 100% right that the test is not the issue. The real problem is the dept didn't recruit. They didn't recruit whites, blacks, hispanics, anyone. They never had to, the tests always had a line around the block and before 9/11 lists would never come anywhere near being exhausted. As soon as they started a real recruiting effort aimed at diversifying the dept they affected real change in both the number of minorities and their scores. This is where an activist judge becomes a pain in the a**. Rather than wait and see if this change was meaningful he jumped the gun and will do far more harm the good.
The two accepted ways to address this are a pass/fail test of the skills the dept insists matter or a knowledge based test. Knowledge based test are very expensive and time consuming. You have to be willing to educate all of the applicants to a level where they can not just pass, but pass well.
No matter what happens, the vulcans want a number. They don't care the quotas do more harm than good. They taint every minority member of the dept as having taken the easy way no matter how they actually did it.
Firemedic, your argument is the exact argument for pass/fail testing. The test is just there cut out anyone who cannot make it. The academy is there to make them into good firefighters. You're right, the argument is not that the dept's test is racist. They are saying that the results have a racial bias, the cause of which is irrelevant. If the result is biased you must find a test that does not have the same biased results unless the test is germane to the job.
In NYC's testimony they were unable to prove any difference between candidates at the top of the list and lower on the list once they were hired. They argued the quality of the training is what enabled this equality. They had people testify as to the how much harder the instructors had to work with lower list candidates. They even demonstrated that it took more candidates to fill a class the lower on the list you got. But they were never able to prove list number impacted the quality of the firefighter. Apparently Chicago was unable to also.
Technically there is still an EMS promotional. The last one was combine with the open competitive, so when the judge ruled on one he essentially ruled on both. There is rumor of a promotional coming, but its not a new rumor and it has yet to happen.

In this case, the PD didn't really "create" their own PC. In fact, the Supreme Court decision in the instant case was a mere affirmation of several of their previous decisions, all of which boil down to the doctrine of "good faith." As long as the police are operating in good faith, then they can act. The good faith doctrine covers all searches and seizures that are categorized under the 4th Amendment, and acts more-or-less as a safeguard for police protection in instances when bona-fide actions that are undertaken in the spirit of the 4th Amendment produce different results, suspects, or both.

If I was running fox...I would cancel it as well...bottom line..I'm running a business. The show has done a wonderful job and like all things...it just ran its time. How about complimenting fox for running it as long as it did and even putting on such a show back in the early 90's to begin with. Heck of run...and a bunch of people brought to justice. Kudo's fox for what you started and ran for such a long time. Also I thought it was on their Sunday night line up originally with: The Simpsons, In Living Color and Married with Children

Too bad he didn't speak in front of the education department as well. Hopefully his testimony is passed on.
As a high school teacher, I can't tell you how happy I am to hear someone say this. Those have been my thought for far too long. There are some students in my classes who should definitely pursue a path other than college. I don't think society (or their parents) realize how important other career paths are and that they shouldn't be seen as consolation prizes. Keeping students who would truly benefit from a learning environment other than a classroom in a desk for four years helps no one - the student, society, etc. High schools used to offer classes like "shop". While those classes weren't meant to teach someone everything there was to know about carpentry, etc, at least students would be exposed to those essential skilled labor fields. If the class served to interest the student, they had an idea that there was something out there for them to study. I remember coming home with all sorts of stuff I made out of wood, metal, etc. I can't say I was great at it, but at least those classes were offered. And I knew how to use most of the tools in the classes already from when I helped my dad rebuild the porch, work on the car, etc. It's rare to find a school that offers classes like than anymore. There are the BOCES programs for students around Westchester (and other parts of NYS), but enrollment is often limited.
I've been reading educational literature lately in which there is a push for "college or career readiness". I've yet to see that happen, but it would be great if it ever did.

M'Ave you are 100% right that the test is not the issue. The real problem is the dept didn't recruit. They didn't recruit whites, blacks, hispanics, anyone. They never had to, the tests always had a line around the block and before 9/11 lists would never come anywhere near being exhausted. As soon as they started a real recruiting effort aimed at diversifying the dept they affected real change in both the number of minorities and their scores. This is where an activist judge becomes a pain in the a**. Rather than wait and see if this change was meaningful he jumped the gun and will do far more harm the good.
The two accepted ways to address this are a pass/fail test of the skills the dept insists matter or a knowledge based test. Knowledge based test are very expensive and time consuming. You have to be willing to educate all of the applicants to a level where they can not just pass, but pass well.
No matter what happens, the vulcans want a number. They don't care the quotas do more harm than good. They taint every minority member of the dept as having taken the easy way no matter how they actually did it.
Firemedic, your argument is the exact argument for pass/fail testing. The test is just there cut out anyone who cannot make it. The academy is there to make them into good firefighters. You're right, the argument is not that the dept's test is racist. They are saying that the results have a racial bias, the cause of which is irrelevant. If the result is biased you must find a test that does not have the same biased results unless the test is germane to the job.
In NYC's testimony they were unable to prove any difference between candidates at the top of the list and lower on the list once they were hired. They argued the quality of the training is what enabled this equality. They had people testify as to the how much harder the instructors had to work with lower list candidates. They even demonstrated that it took more candidates to fill a class the lower on the list you got. But they were never able to prove list number impacted the quality of the firefighter. Apparently Chicago was unable to also.
Technically there is still an EMS promotional. The last one was combine with the open competitive, so when the judge ruled on one he essentially ruled on both. There is rumor of a promotional coming, but its not a new rumor and it has yet to happen.

M'Ave you are 100% right that the test is not the issue. The real problem is the dept didn't recruit. They didn't recruit whites, blacks, hispanics, anyone. They never had to, the tests always had a line around the block and before 9/11 lists would never come anywhere near being exhausted. As soon as they started a real recruiting effort aimed at diversifying the dept they affected real change in both the number of minorities and their scores. This is where an activist judge becomes a pain in the a**. Rather than wait and see if this change was meaningful he jumped the gun and will do far more harm the good.
The two accepted ways to address this are a pass/fail test of the skills the dept insists matter or a knowledge based test. Knowledge based test are very expensive and time consuming. You have to be willing to educate all of the applicants to a level where they can not just pass, but pass well.
No matter what happens, the vulcans want a number. They don't care the quotas do more harm than good. They taint every minority member of the dept as having taken the easy way no matter how they actually did it.
Firemedic, your argument is the exact argument for pass/fail testing. The test is just there cut out anyone who cannot make it. The academy is there to make them into good firefighters. You're right, the argument is not that the dept's test is racist. They are saying that the results have a racial bias, the cause of which is irrelevant. If the result is biased you must find a test that does not have the same biased results unless the test is germane to the job.
In NYC's testimony they were unable to prove any difference between candidates at the top of the list and lower on the list once they were hired. They argued the quality of the training is what enabled this equality. They had people testify as to the how much harder the instructors had to work with lower list candidates. They even demonstrated that it took more candidates to fill a class the lower on the list you got. But they were never able to prove list number impacted the quality of the firefighter. Apparently Chicago was unable to also.
Technically there is still an EMS promotional. The last one was combine with the open competitive, so when the judge ruled on one he essentially ruled on both. There is rumor of a promotional coming, but its not a new rumor and it has yet to happen.

This is the same argument that lost NYC their case. Its the disparate impact clause. If you cannot prove that those who score higher on the test make better firefighters and that test has a disproportionate impact on any one group, the test is assumed to be biased. When you look at past FDNY probie classes there is no difference in promotion rates from the first classes off the list to the last classes. Until you can make a test that assesses firefighter ability cities are going to keep losing these cases.

Sorry, but you have almost zero right to privacy on the road. Not only are you in plain sight, but driving is a privilege granted by the state. As such they have rights to almost anything driving related you do. That includes how many trips to Hannaford you took last Wednesday. You're welcome to walk, but then you're back out in plain sight and the city is allowed to install facial recognition cameras along your route and track you that way.

Sorry, but you have almost zero right to privacy on the road. Not only are you in plain sight, but driving is a privilege granted by the state. As such they have rights to almost anything driving related you do. That includes how many trips to Hannaford you took last Wednesday. You're welcome to walk, but then you're back out in plain sight and the city is allowed to install facial recognition cameras along your route and track you that way.

Sorry, but you have almost zero right to privacy on the road. Not only are you in plain sight, but driving is a privilege granted by the state. As such they have rights to almost anything driving related you do. That includes how many trips to Hannaford you took last Wednesday. You're welcome to walk, but then you're back out in plain sight and the city is allowed to install facial recognition cameras along your route and track you that way.

Its not the perceived emergencies that burn people out and turn people off of EMS runs. Its the out right BS runs that we continue to encourage. The tooth ache call, the sniffles, I missed my Dr appointment, etc. Firefighters get just as annoyed at the automatic alarms, malicious false alarms, etc. While only 1% of all runs are major fires the burned out ballast, burner back puff, etc are all real enough where you can understand why someone would call 911.

We need legitamate EMS not BS calls. A certain city in Westchester use to do 1500 runs a year with over 200 firefighters and now does 9000 with 155 firefighters. I would say that city fire dept is holding up to their end of the productivity agreement but not the city. I don't think you will find one person on this board, including myself, who would not be willing to do any and all real EMS calls. It is the general illness calls, the runny nose calls, the twisted ankle calls that happened at 4:00 in the afternoon and they need a ride to the hospital at 2:00 am calls. We all know the calls I am talking about. I have been around a little while.

Democrats support unions republicans do not, see Wisconsin. It is funny that the majority of emergency service people lean to the republican side, but their party does not support them.

The nation standard for turnout time is 1 minute regardless of the pay status of the responders. Here they are talking about making a local requierment that is substandard to the national standard. The national response standard is BLS in 4 minutes (drive time) and ALS in 8 minutes, both with 1 min for call processing and 1 minute for "turnout time".
Is it reasonable that someones grandparent having chest pain, or a spouse having been struck by a vehicle or someones child with an ubstructed airway can get a timely EMS response?
There are many ways to provide EMS to ones community and in every case the local EMS agency has an obligation to provide a response that meets what the courts say are "reasonable standards".

I believe that the Medical Advisory Committee for the Regional Council has finally taken steps to mandate that any EMS agency must be "in the ambulance" responding within three (3) minutes of a 911 call being received. I think the implementation date has been set, and that if an agency cannot meet this mandate the take themselves out of service for that day. More info is available from the regional council.
With the Fitch & Associates study on EMS findings, positive changes should be forthcoming.

That hits the F%$# nail on the head. I am not a terrorist. I spent my time on the Pile, and luckily, so far, have only had minor problems (PTSD, and sinus problems) compared to what some of my co-workers are going through. I am really getting disgusted with the way our government is acting. I really am beginning to believe it is time for a Second American Revolution. No more Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Tea Party, but we the voters need to look at what the candidates are about. Elect only those that put country above all else. No more multiple term members, if we can have term limits on the President, then we should have them on Congress as well. Eliminate their pensions and life time health benefits for serving just one term. The current government (not just Obama, but his predecessors, Bush(s) Clinton, etc.) have given away money like crazy, and never once checked the recipients like this. Why start now?

Isn't Moynihan station supposed to open up space at Penn for MetroNorth in the distant future? These revenue neutral projects are ridiculous. They need to spend money attracting more customers rather than adding services for existing customers.