LTFIREPRG

This event is a reminder of how our jobs as emergency responders is changing. Hats off to all of the responders - police, fire and ems - in Aurora for the courageous acts that day, including that of the dispatchers. I am sure there will be lessons learned from our brother and sister responders that we all can take home. Until such time, I won't comment on the events there but rather some of the lessons we have learned from other events.
Post analysis of the Columbine shooting and other high profile attacks revealed that first responders need to respond and react differently to hostile events. Hence new active shooter policies for police departments (i.e. rapid entry of patrol officers and not waiting for SWAT). One area that has been historically overlooked is how to treat/evacuate a mass number of victims from the "hot" zone. How do you reach and quickly extricate dozens, if not hundreds, of injured victims?
Fire and EMS need to be included as part of a coordinated response to a hostile event. Police quickly become overwhelmed. We (non law-enforcement) have been trained to wait for an "all clear" or to know the scene is completely "safe." Post incident analysis' has showed that this approach doesn't work. In Columbine, victims were bleeding out but were unable to be reached. Realistically, it can take upwards of a few hours for an area to be deemed safe (by our traditional definition).
There are efforts popping up across the county to address this issue. In Minnesota, for example, a program called 3E (3 Echo) is being rolled out that incorporates fire/ems into a coordinated response to a hostile event. The program is based on extensive research of past events both within the United States and across the world, taking best practices deploying in many countries (i.e. Israel) that see active terrorist activity, as well as research coming from the Iraq war. The program integrates police, fire and EMS into a coordinated, initial response with a goal to rapidly treat/evacuate massive numbers of patents within minutes (15-20 minutes or less) of a hostile event. From a fire/EMS perspective, it is a fairly significant shift in the paradigm of waiting blocks away for an "all clear" or for the scene to be 100% "safe." A collaborative approach will allow first responders to evaluate the risk/benefit, realizing that some risk will need to be taken. The key in this program is training, exercise and collaboration between first response agencies prior to an incident happening. Due to the sensitive and mission critical nature of the program, its training and policies, I can't go into much further detail online.
Our jobs are changing. The fire service isn't what it used to be 30-40 years ago. While we can only hope that events such as Columbine, Virginia Tech and now Aurora will not happen in our own community, we cannot ignore the reality that, in 2012, we need to take a better look at how we (police, fire and ems) will respond to a hostile event. Its our job.

People go under the assumption (not the original poster of this thread, he's just passing along information) that because agencies go through so much training and planning for catastrophic incidents, that when something horrific such as this MCI happens, things will/should go according to these static plans; drawn on white boards in our planning rooms, presented on Powerpoint and practiced time and again in our controlled environments on the drill field.
When something so horrendous happens, the first in officers are naturally going to be way ahead of the planning curve. Of course when they see multiple people injured, some obviously DOA, they're going to urgently ask for help.
The practiced and rehearsed response to these incidents is going to take time time to catch up to the real time action on the ground.
In this case if officers are possibly pleading for EMS and EMS is probably chomping at the bit to get in there and help; being removed from the scene gives the EMS personnel the ability to reasonably think that they should be waiting for the proper orders; a secure scene advisory to move in, etc.
As in every catastrophe, there are so many individual acts of heroism and valor that occur during and immediately after the event, they are hard to count. I think, with so much focus on sensationalism in media reporting, we should always recognize that none of these events are going to go exactly as they were presented to us on a white board in our training classrooms.
I also think that point has been made many times here on Bravo, but should be mentioned again.
My personal wish is for all emergency personnel who responded into this event to get the follow-up care that they are going to need, and certainly all of the victims and civilians who acted with courage and valor under fire, get the help and care they need as well.
Nobody, no matter how experienced, no matter how fearless and salty they may be, on any of our jobs can walk away from such an incident "untouched."
Once again, the emergency responders of this country, in this case Aurora, Co. did the best they could under extreme duress. I'm quite confident they ALL did an excellent job.

I find it interesting how every post generally turns into a Paid vs. Volunteer issue or a Fire vs. Police issue. As a former NYS Fire Instructor who has trained many volunteers and a former director of the Westchester Career Fire Academy who has trained many career firefighters, there are many excellent and dedicated career and volunteer firefighters as there are many not so excellent career and volunteer firefighters. You are always going to have individuals who are going to play the system (career and volunteer), using it to their advantage, and getting everything out of it for themselves that they can. This is a fact of life and it’s not changing anytime soon.

Let’s all wake up, the fire really doesn’t care if you are paid or volunteer, it’s not going to say “lets take it easy on them, they are volunteers”. It is paramount that all firefighter’s career and volunteer keep current skills and training. The same applies to the poor victim trapped in a fire or motor vehicle, do you really think they care what the patch on your sleeve states, FD, PD, paid or volunteer!

Everyone’s time would be better spent working together, FD, PD, paid and volunteer, for the common good and betterment of emergencies services, rather then bickering over who is better or who’s doing who’s job.

I find it interesting how every post generally turns into a Paid vs. Volunteer issue or a Fire vs. Police issue. As a former NYS Fire Instructor who has trained many volunteers and a former director of the Westchester Career Fire Academy who has trained many career firefighters, there are many excellent and dedicated career and volunteer firefighters as there are many not so excellent career and volunteer firefighters. You are always going to have individuals who are going to play the system (career and volunteer), using it to their advantage, and getting everything out of it for themselves that they can. This is a fact of life and it’s not changing anytime soon.

Let’s all wake up, the fire really doesn’t care if you are paid or volunteer, it’s not going to say “lets take it easy on them, they are volunteers”. It is paramount that all firefighter’s career and volunteer keep current skills and training. The same applies to the poor victim trapped in a fire or motor vehicle, do you really think they care what the patch on your sleeve states, FD, PD, paid or volunteer!

Everyone’s time would be better spent working together, FD, PD, paid and volunteer, for the common good and betterment of emergencies services, rather then bickering over who is better or who’s doing who’s job.

I find it interesting how every post generally turns into a Paid vs. Volunteer issue or a Fire vs. Police issue. As a former NYS Fire Instructor who has trained many volunteers and a former director of the Westchester Career Fire Academy who has trained many career firefighters, there are many excellent and dedicated career and volunteer firefighters as there are many not so excellent career and volunteer firefighters. You are always going to have individuals who are going to play the system (career and volunteer), using it to their advantage, and getting everything out of it for themselves that they can. This is a fact of life and it’s not changing anytime soon.

Let’s all wake up, the fire really doesn’t care if you are paid or volunteer, it’s not going to say “lets take it easy on them, they are volunteers”. It is paramount that all firefighter’s career and volunteer keep current skills and training. The same applies to the poor victim trapped in a fire or motor vehicle, do you really think they care what the patch on your sleeve states, FD, PD, paid or volunteer!

Everyone’s time would be better spent working together, FD, PD, paid and volunteer, for the common good and betterment of emergencies services, rather then bickering over who is better or who’s doing who’s job.

I find it interesting how every post generally turns into a Paid vs. Volunteer issue or a Fire vs. Police issue. As a former NYS Fire Instructor who has trained many volunteers and a former director of the Westchester Career Fire Academy who has trained many career firefighters, there are many excellent and dedicated career and volunteer firefighters as there are many not so excellent career and volunteer firefighters. You are always going to have individuals who are going to play the system (career and volunteer), using it to their advantage, and getting everything out of it for themselves that they can. This is a fact of life and it’s not changing anytime soon.

Let’s all wake up, the fire really doesn’t care if you are paid or volunteer, it’s not going to say “lets take it easy on them, they are volunteers”. It is paramount that all firefighter’s career and volunteer keep current skills and training. The same applies to the poor victim trapped in a fire or motor vehicle, do you really think they care what the patch on your sleeve states, FD, PD, paid or volunteer!

Everyone’s time would be better spent working together, FD, PD, paid and volunteer, for the common good and betterment of emergencies services, rather then bickering over who is better or who’s doing who’s job.

I find it interesting how every post generally turns into a Paid vs. Volunteer issue or a Fire vs. Police issue. As a former NYS Fire Instructor who has trained many volunteers and a former director of the Westchester Career Fire Academy who has trained many career firefighters, there are many excellent and dedicated career and volunteer firefighters as there are many not so excellent career and volunteer firefighters. You are always going to have individuals who are going to play the system (career and volunteer), using it to their advantage, and getting everything out of it for themselves that they can. This is a fact of life and it’s not changing anytime soon.

Let’s all wake up, the fire really doesn’t care if you are paid or volunteer, it’s not going to say “lets take it easy on them, they are volunteers”. It is paramount that all firefighter’s career and volunteer keep current skills and training. The same applies to the poor victim trapped in a fire or motor vehicle, do you really think they care what the patch on your sleeve states, FD, PD, paid or volunteer!

Everyone’s time would be better spent working together, FD, PD, paid and volunteer, for the common good and betterment of emergencies services, rather then bickering over who is better or who’s doing who’s job.

I find it interesting how every post generally turns into a Paid vs. Volunteer issue or a Fire vs. Police issue. As a former NYS Fire Instructor who has trained many volunteers and a former director of the Westchester Career Fire Academy who has trained many career firefighters, there are many excellent and dedicated career and volunteer firefighters as there are many not so excellent career and volunteer firefighters. You are always going to have individuals who are going to play the system (career and volunteer), using it to their advantage, and getting everything out of it for themselves that they can. This is a fact of life and it’s not changing anytime soon.

Let’s all wake up, the fire really doesn’t care if you are paid or volunteer, it’s not going to say “lets take it easy on them, they are volunteers”. It is paramount that all firefighter’s career and volunteer keep current skills and training. The same applies to the poor victim trapped in a fire or motor vehicle, do you really think they care what the patch on your sleeve states, FD, PD, paid or volunteer!

Everyone’s time would be better spent working together, FD, PD, paid and volunteer, for the common good and betterment of emergencies services, rather then bickering over who is better or who’s doing who’s job.

I find it interesting how every post generally turns into a Paid vs. Volunteer issue or a Fire vs. Police issue. As a former NYS Fire Instructor who has trained many volunteers and a former director of the Westchester Career Fire Academy who has trained many career firefighters, there are many excellent and dedicated career and volunteer firefighters as there are many not so excellent career and volunteer firefighters. You are always going to have individuals who are going to play the system (career and volunteer), using it to their advantage, and getting everything out of it for themselves that they can. This is a fact of life and it’s not changing anytime soon.

Let’s all wake up, the fire really doesn’t care if you are paid or volunteer, it’s not going to say “lets take it easy on them, they are volunteers”. It is paramount that all firefighter’s career and volunteer keep current skills and training. The same applies to the poor victim trapped in a fire or motor vehicle, do you really think they care what the patch on your sleeve states, FD, PD, paid or volunteer!

Everyone’s time would be better spent working together, FD, PD, paid and volunteer, for the common good and betterment of emergencies services, rather then bickering over who is better or who’s doing who’s job.

I find it interesting how every post generally turns into a Paid vs. Volunteer issue or a Fire vs. Police issue. As a former NYS Fire Instructor who has trained many volunteers and a former director of the Westchester Career Fire Academy who has trained many career firefighters, there are many excellent and dedicated career and volunteer firefighters as there are many not so excellent career and volunteer firefighters. You are always going to have individuals who are going to play the system (career and volunteer), using it to their advantage, and getting everything out of it for themselves that they can. This is a fact of life and it’s not changing anytime soon.

Let’s all wake up, the fire really doesn’t care if you are paid or volunteer, it’s not going to say “lets take it easy on them, they are volunteers”. It is paramount that all firefighter’s career and volunteer keep current skills and training. The same applies to the poor victim trapped in a fire or motor vehicle, do you really think they care what the patch on your sleeve states, FD, PD, paid or volunteer!

Everyone’s time would be better spent working together, FD, PD, paid and volunteer, for the common good and betterment of emergencies services, rather then bickering over who is better or who’s doing who’s job.

I find it interesting how every post generally turns into a Paid vs. Volunteer issue or a Fire vs. Police issue. As a former NYS Fire Instructor who has trained many volunteers and a former director of the Westchester Career Fire Academy who has trained many career firefighters, there are many excellent and dedicated career and volunteer firefighters as there are many not so excellent career and volunteer firefighters. You are always going to have individuals who are going to play the system (career and volunteer), using it to their advantage, and getting everything out of it for themselves that they can. This is a fact of life and it’s not changing anytime soon.

Let’s all wake up, the fire really doesn’t care if you are paid or volunteer, it’s not going to say “lets take it easy on them, they are volunteers”. It is paramount that all firefighter’s career and volunteer keep current skills and training. The same applies to the poor victim trapped in a fire or motor vehicle, do you really think they care what the patch on your sleeve states, FD, PD, paid or volunteer!

Everyone’s time would be better spent working together, FD, PD, paid and volunteer, for the common good and betterment of emergencies services, rather then bickering over who is better or who’s doing who’s job.

I find it interesting how every post generally turns into a Paid vs. Volunteer issue or a Fire vs. Police issue. As a former NYS Fire Instructor who has trained many volunteers and a former director of the Westchester Career Fire Academy who has trained many career firefighters, there are many excellent and dedicated career and volunteer firefighters as there are many not so excellent career and volunteer firefighters. You are always going to have individuals who are going to play the system (career and volunteer), using it to their advantage, and getting everything out of it for themselves that they can. This is a fact of life and it’s not changing anytime soon.

Let’s all wake up, the fire really doesn’t care if you are paid or volunteer, it’s not going to say “lets take it easy on them, they are volunteers”. It is paramount that all firefighter’s career and volunteer keep current skills and training. The same applies to the poor victim trapped in a fire or motor vehicle, do you really think they care what the patch on your sleeve states, FD, PD, paid or volunteer!

Everyone’s time would be better spent working together, FD, PD, paid and volunteer, for the common good and betterment of emergencies services, rather then bickering over who is better or who’s doing who’s job.

Shots I took of the Space Shuttle Enterprise on its way to the Intrepid taken about 20 min ago.

Shots I took of the Space Shuttle Enterprise on its way to the Intrepid taken about 20 min ago.

Shots I took of the Space Shuttle Enterprise on its way to the Intrepid taken about 20 min ago.

Shots I took of the Space Shuttle Enterprise on its way to the Intrepid taken about 20 min ago.

Shots I took of the Space Shuttle Enterprise on its way to the Intrepid taken about 20 min ago.

Shots I took of the Space Shuttle Enterprise on its way to the Intrepid taken about 20 min ago.

As stated, a total waste of money. Definitely an advertising ploy, and it was in poor taste that the fire department allowed them to use the fire house and model in turnout gear for the photo spread. If they wanted to pay tribute to the local fire department, buy them a useful piece of equipment, they could have still put their name on the side of it. This vehicle has disaster written all over it, lets see how long before we are reading a post on how they lost control of the vehicle while responding, I just pray that no one gets hurt.

As stated, a total waste of money. Definitely an advertising ploy, and it was in poor taste that the fire department allowed them to use the fire house and model in turnout gear for the photo spread. If they wanted to pay tribute to the local fire department, buy them a useful piece of equipment, they could have still put their name on the side of it. This vehicle has disaster written all over it, lets see how long before we are reading a post on how they lost control of the vehicle while responding, I just pray that no one gets hurt.

As stated, a total waste of money. Definitely an advertising ploy, and it was in poor taste that the fire department allowed them to use the fire house and model in turnout gear for the photo spread. If they wanted to pay tribute to the local fire department, buy them a useful piece of equipment, they could have still put their name on the side of it. This vehicle has disaster written all over it, lets see how long before we are reading a post on how they lost control of the vehicle while responding, I just pray that no one gets hurt.

It's a colossal waste of money but it isn't tax dollars that were wasted. The company built it as a tribute to the local FD and it would appear that it is nothing more than an advertising ploy.

The bottom line is you can do all the Monday morning quarterbacking you want, but unless you were the I/C at this incident or were there and witnessed some event that grossly jeopardized firefighter or the State Police Officers safety, you have no right to call his judgment to utilize the officers into question.

Did anyone take into consideration it was Christmas Eve and that probably contributed to the manpower shortage? It’s easy to say pick up the radio and call for help, how far is the help and how long is it going to take to get them there. What was the I/C faced with at the time? It is quite obvious the Ancram Chief and department were very much appreciative of the assistance rendered by the State Police in the mitigation of this incident.

Instead of bickering about doing each others jobs, how about being pro active and working together to enhance the protection of life and property of the “tax payers” we serve. I can tell you when police and fire want to, they can work very well together to accomplish this. Greenburgh Police and Fairview Fire have been working together for years with EMS and Technical Rescue providing the best emergency services available.

The Ancram Fire Chief should be commended for having the guts to employ the assistance on the State Police, and the State Police should be commended for assisting.

The problem with operating special operations units is four fold, the initial start up cost of equipment & training, cost of maintaining and replacing equipment, cost of continuing education and training and the extensive commitment of members of the unit.
Let’s start with any unit’s most valuable resource, personnel. There is a tremendous amount of time that will be required to be devoted to learning and becoming proficient in the skills needed to perform as a member of the special operations unit. Then there is the commitment of maintaining and advancing those skills. All training should meet the minimum requirements as out lined in the appropriate NFPA Professional Qualifications Standard. Keep in mind this is in addition to your regular firefighting and EMS skills and training.
The cost of equipment is extremely expensive to purchase and maintain. Make no mistake; if you are going to start a special operations unit, then you must be committed to purchasing ALL the required equipment needed to carry out a safe and successful operation.
Based on the cost and commitment to establish and maintain a special operations team, it is not practical or in some cases achievable. While it may be beneficial to establish specialized units in locations that warrant them, such as a Sound Shore Water Rescue Unit, this would be better accomplished by a multi jurisdictional unit funded by and made up of members of several departments, all sharing equally in the cost, administration and staffing of the unit. Westchester County Special Operations Team is open to all members, both career and volunteer. This is a good fit for anyone who has the desire and commitment to serve on a special operations team.

The bottom line is you can do all the Monday morning quarterbacking you want, but unless you were the I/C at this incident or were there and witnessed some event that grossly jeopardized firefighter or the State Police Officers safety, you have no right to call his judgment to utilize the officers into question.

Did anyone take into consideration it was Christmas Eve and that probably contributed to the manpower shortage? It’s easy to say pick up the radio and call for help, how far is the help and how long is it going to take to get them there. What was the I/C faced with at the time? It is quite obvious the Ancram Chief and department were very much appreciative of the assistance rendered by the State Police in the mitigation of this incident.

Instead of bickering about doing each others jobs, how about being pro active and working together to enhance the protection of life and property of the “tax payers” we serve. I can tell you when police and fire want to, they can work very well together to accomplish this. Greenburgh Police and Fairview Fire have been working together for years with EMS and Technical Rescue providing the best emergency services available.

The Ancram Fire Chief should be commended for having the guts to employ the assistance on the State Police, and the State Police should be commended for assisting.