FiftyOnePride

It seems like every day another new feature is being introduced on this site. Personally, I think the site is greatly improved. The favorite feature I like is when someone makes a new post the site will update to reflect it. It has to have taken a lot of effort on the part of the administration to make these improvements.
I've noticed the fundraising goal has been fairly stagnant as of late. If a majority of the "active" posters on the site would just step up and help the site reach it's very reasonable goal of a few thousand dollars, it would be a good thing. It would be doing the right thing imho. After all, we all participate here, get good information, share our thoughts and opinions, and for me being retired, it's a way to stay connected to the fire service.
Tis the season, and I encourage my fellow emtbravo members to help the site meet it's fundraising goal.

I know somebody other than me who watched the video is thinking this, so I'm going to pose the question:
For a.....DOG in the water?
While I give full credit to the members' performance at this alarm, I must ask; where is the "risk/reward" assesment for this type of response and subsequent rescue? I can understand the concern about civilians attempting an amateur rescue attempt, and putting their lives and thefore LAFD/PD members potentially at risk.
But what about a sniper with a tranquilizer-dart gun and a net deployed a hundred or two yards down river? C'mon people, use your imagination here. What else could have been done?
The brother who actually made the grab got multiple puncture wounds and bites from the animal. That was the hardest part of the video to watch. I was wondering if he had some extra protective gear on to prevent the dog from biting him; aside from his regular rescue gear. Guess not.
*What if the dog is rabid?
*What would critics be saying if the helo had a tragic accident during the rescue attempt? Do you think the Chief and other Commanders would be receiving any criticism/lawsuits from grieving familes/getting roasted in the press, etc?
*Helo rescues as routine as they might be for a place like the Los Angeles basin, are still some of the riskiest operations undertaken by emergency services, are they not?
Risk ALL OF THIS.....for a dog?
Conclusion: IMHO, If I was making decisions at this incident (based on the limited information received in the post and on the video), I would never have put the helo rescue into operation. Nor would I have risked injury (which did occur) to any one of the firefighters. You know it can be heartbreaking to sit by and just watch as an animal struggles. Human emotion takes over; everyone wants to do something. BUT, somebody has to evaluate what the risk/reward is; and at the end of the day no firefighter's life is worth risking for an animal. As cold as that may sound, that's what "Incident Commanders" are paid to do; take the emotion out of the equation and make decisions in the best interest of those you serve and protect, YOUR TROOPS.
~Just an opinion, and once again give credit to all the brothers/sisters who performed their duties as ordered!

Nobody got off the rigs to check the structure. No walk around, no knock on the door, no look through the windows. Nothing. Nadda. Disgusting. End.

Aside from the children standing on top of the aerial as it rolls down the street?

My wife and I took a trip to Boston this week as a mini-honeymoon, on the way back through we stopped in Worcester, more specifically at the location of the Worcester Cold Storage fire that took place December 3, 1999, taking with it the lives of 6 Worcester Firefighters. In the demolished ruins of it, the city decided to put a brand new FH which was opened last year and a monument for the fallen. Here are some of the pictures from the stop. A very powerful monument, a very nice tribute.

The MFC website recently went through an overhaul, and is current under renovations, but a bulk of the new web page is put together minus some information and some formatting issues...
www.millertonfire.com
Enjoy!

http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-products/Fire-Goggles/articles/746966-Firefighter-Face-Protection-Goggles-vs-Faceshields/
The link, which I received in one of my TSL emails talks about NFPA 1971, which is about to be revised. More specifically, what is going to be changed and added to the revision. One proposal for the committee to consider is to make goggles mandatory and face shields optional. If they go with goggles, how do they mandate helmets be sold? With them already integrated with the helmet, or separately, and how to suggest they be protected if integrated? Does eye protection have to be regulated in conjunction with the helmet or can it be separate?
The article raises these points and a few more..
What does everyone think?
I'm not trying to start one of those epic 'what color is better for a firetruck?' or 'traditional or salad bowl helmet?" threads, I think this is an important topic, as showcased in the Hartsdale cover photo display on emtbravo.com and the apparent ruckus that arose from that.

Make sure you have your volume turned up when you look at their homepage...

Great info from everyone again, thank you! Gonna take all this and actually do something with it now.

Thanks everyone for the input, and don't stop please! Several people have mentioned Dragon Rescue, including a few PM's, so I have a few different routes to go, thanks again everyone I do appreciate it.
Most likely I am going to take what people have written and provided here and try and use as much as possible to help me get better aquainted, and the others in my company, thanks again!

Our district already has one elevator, and is soon to be gaining another one via new construction right in the village. This one is going to be used a lot more than the current one, but regardless I would like to brush up and learn more on the ins and outs of getting a person or persons removed from an elevator that will not operate, and any other incidents that may occur involving one.
My experience is limited so I know this is the place to come to to help me, thanks to everyone who responds and takes the time to put together their knowledge.
How do you train or how would you train? Any evolutions or is it simply a verbal discourse on the subject with perhaps a Power Point slide to back it up?

In Poughkeepsie we go to these on a routine basis and it's usually pretty easy to gain access. We turn the power off and just use the drop key to get the door open. Also, most elevators get stuck from a electrical glitch and sometimes switching the power on and off may get the elevator moving again.

My department had a class done by DRM whom taught a good class on rescue. Most likely you are dealing with an elevator possibly 4 floors or less which is hydraulic. First determine what floor the stuck elevator is on. Most cars stop moving due to door issues, so making sure the door is shut and that the floor above/below is clear you can move on to the rescue. Using proper tag out procedures you can shut off electric and then remove the cover and use the hydraulic override to lower the elevator to proper floor height and let the victims walk out. Polling will allow you to locate the elevator car location (What floor). Rescue from the car would require a good anchor and roping so that if the car is moved no one is at risk of injury. The lowering and stopping of the car can be done using the hydraulic override. The last thing you want to do is to take (Victims) out using a ladder and the top of the elevator car. Since we need a controlled rescue I think by law the top of the elevators are locked so that the victims cannot climb out of the elevator.

here are some steps that need addressing and some already have
determine what kind of elevator you are being called to work on you may only have a hydro, but does your mutual aid area have traction elevators?
do you have the keys to open all the doors you may come across?
where is the elevator stuck?
is it a true emergency ie medical call or just a stuck occupied elevator?
do you have an sop for lock out tag out? ANY elevator you are going to work on MUST have the power shut off before starting any evolution.This is probably the most important thing you have to do. with that said do you leave a member at the shut off, (in the old days we always took the fuses out and put them in our pockets), do you shut it off and lock it out so no one else can put it back on, or do you just assume because you shut it off that no one else is in the building answering the same call: IE: building maint, PD, elevator repairman who might turn it back on for whatever reason.
how many people are in the elevator? involves making contact with the occupants and possably calming them down BEFORE any attempt to open doors
where is the car in relation to the floor
is there a fall hazard into the shaft by ANYONE FD or OCCUPANT UPON REMOVAL
a little giant ladder/ closet ladder is standard on all our responses to help remove occupants
how good are you at getting the doors open practice makes perfect
AND PLAN B FOR THAT ONE IN A HUNDRED CALL WHERE NOTHING YOU PRACTICED WORKED
This is just a quick overview some steps were already mention in previous posts I am sure i left out something along the way

Our district already has one elevator, and is soon to be gaining another one via new construction right in the village. This one is going to be used a lot more than the current one, but regardless I would like to brush up and learn more on the ins and outs of getting a person or persons removed from an elevator that will not operate, and any other incidents that may occur involving one.
My experience is limited so I know this is the place to come to to help me, thanks to everyone who responds and takes the time to put together their knowledge.
How do you train or how would you train? Any evolutions or is it simply a verbal discourse on the subject with perhaps a Power Point slide to back it up?

Our district already has one elevator, and is soon to be gaining another one via new construction right in the village. This one is going to be used a lot more than the current one, but regardless I would like to brush up and learn more on the ins and outs of getting a person or persons removed from an elevator that will not operate, and any other incidents that may occur involving one.
My experience is limited so I know this is the place to come to to help me, thanks to everyone who responds and takes the time to put together their knowledge.
How do you train or how would you train? Any evolutions or is it simply a verbal discourse on the subject with perhaps a Power Point slide to back it up?

What is the need for this "Member Reputation System" ?
This will prove nothing.

You guys have some GREAT information in this thread. Why don't you all start really bumping each other up with these "reputation buttons"? This is one of the more productive, less dramatic threads. Give yourselves some credit. Just MHO.

It's pretty similar to what has been posted, removal of burning material from the "firebox," followed by chains and/or bombs. Tarps are placed for initial removal and any bouncing embers. Checking for extension is usually occurring during this process while the top of the chimney and the bottom are operating. Folks on the roof are packed up as well as anyone else entering the structure, dry line is stretched to the door.
How it is treated? A special kind of structure fire designation is the best way I can put it.
I am curious to see more about the use of PPA/V in extinguishment however.

Our rig roles with a qualified driver at least, with qualified personnel in tow, but more often than not with an interior qualified FF in the shotgun seat, and since we do not have cabs that fit more than two there is usually a trail of pov's with qualified members meeting up at the other departments barn.
Typically the requested departments OIC will decide staffing unless something specific is requested from the home department.

Some excellent points have been made in this thread.
A few I would add:
1. When you can't see where you are placing your foot, CRAWL! (Possible exception to this would be the nozzle man and backup man who, while advancing the line, may do the duckwalk technique previoulsy discussed)
2. The idea of a 360 recon is nice, but is often impractical...aim to get a look at at least 3 sides of the building before entering...the time you take to get an immediate look at the 4th side of the building when it is not readily accessible could allow the fire to grow exponentially and could mean the difference between life and death for anyone still inside.
3. CRAWL!!
4. Incident Commander should assign members early on to get a look at the back of the building and communicate findings to everyone on the fireground (again, this may not be practical to assign to first due Engine or Ladder Companies).
5. CRAWL!!!
6. Develop a mindset of constantly sizing up the building from a six-sided perspective. This doesn't mean you need to actually see all six-sides (all four "sides" plus what is above you and what is below you), but rather that you are "situationally aware" of there being six sides the building and that all members on the fireground are continually assessing and communicating to one another fire and smoke location, structural integrity, etc.
The biggestmistake we make is not knowing what exacctly is going on below us and getting caught above the fire sometimes.
7. CRAWL!!!!

RIP