Patch6713

My third Child left from Purdys NY today to head up to Albany to a 5 year stint in the US Army, she is going to Missouri for Boot Camp and AIT training to become a M P. Her Mother and I are extremely proud of her , she has been a member of Somers FD since she was 16, she has completed EMT and FF 1 and 2 and Safety and Survival. ( She is 20) I want to wish her all the best as well I want to keep her in our thoughts and prayers. I also wish to Thank all who have and are currently serving THANK YOU for all you are doing and have done for this great country we all live in.
Jim and Gina Arena
God Bless America

To Poughkeepsie Police Officer John Falcone's family, friends and the Brothers and Sisters of the Poughkeepsie Police Department; we here at EMTBravo, hundreds of fellow police officers, firefighters and emergency medical personnel all grieve with you for the tragic and senseless loss you have suffered.
Most of us did not know John personally, but we now know who he was because of his actions; his willingness to go into harms way, do his duty, and heroically carry out his final call.
He will never be forgotten by us.
When a tragedy like this happens, when a man such as Officer Falcone is taken from this world in the line of duty, our hearts are broken with yours, we stand at attention and salute him and all of you, and offer you all our deepest condolences and respect.
He reminded all New Yorkers, and all fellow Americans, what it means to be a Police Officer. An innocent three year old girl will live her life thanks to the courageous and selfless last actions of a hero.
Officer John Falcone, No Greater Love....Rest in Peace and thank you.

Date: 2-11-11
Time: 1708
Location: 1480 Rt. 32, Town of Ulster
Frequency: 33.48, Frequency 4
Units Operating: East Kingston, Ulster Hose, Glasco, Mt. Marion, Port Ewen, Ruby, County Cars, Mobile Life, Saugerties, Bloomington, Cause and Origin, Central Hudson Gas and Electric
Weather Conditions: Cold
Description Of Incident: Barn Fire with horses inside the barn
Reporters/Writer: Patch6713
1708 – East Kingston dispatched for working barn fire
1709 – Car 25 on the road. County advising working fire with horses inside.
1709 – Ulster Police responding
1710- 2nd alarm for East Kingston, Ulster Hose with E61-10, Glasco 29-11, Mt Marion FAST, Port Ewen to EK station 1, Ruby to EK station 2, UC Cause and Origin, Central Hudson Gas and Electric, Car 56, 56-1, Mobile Life
1711 – Frequency 4 for ops, 25-18 Responding
1714 – Additional tankers from Ruby and Spring Lake to the scene.
1718 – Saugerties with one engine to stand by at the Glasco station.
1719 – Glasco with 29-13 to the scene.
1721 – Bloomington with one engine to stand by at Spring Lake station.
1722 – Saugerties responding to Glasco
1726 – Bloomington standing by
1733 – Update to command – All mutual aid has been filled, four fire investigators responding, Central Hudson responding with no ETA
1735 – Ulster Hose a second call for the agency with a FAST to Highland for a possible structure fire
1538 – Mt. Marion all available manpower to stand by in quarters, Centerville with one engine to the Mt. Marion station.
1539 – 56-A and 56-S arriving
1540 – Saugerties to fill tankers at Cafaldo Park, 53-30 to take the job from the standby detail.
1753 – Spring Lake 59-20 is in service, Bloomington is released from standby
1-12-11
0908 - East Kingston dispatched for a rekindle.
0914 - 25-18 arriving

Date: 2-11-11
Time: 1708
Location: 1480 Rt. 32, Town of Ulster
Frequency: 33.48, Frequency 4
Units Operating: East Kingston, Ulster Hose, Glasco, Mt. Marion, Port Ewen, Ruby, County Cars, Mobile Life, Saugerties, Bloomington, Cause and Origin, Central Hudson Gas and Electric
Weather Conditions: Cold
Description Of Incident: Barn Fire with horses inside the barn
Reporters/Writer: Patch6713
1708 – East Kingston dispatched for working barn fire
1709 – Car 25 on the road. County advising working fire with horses inside.
1709 – Ulster Police responding
1710- 2nd alarm for East Kingston, Ulster Hose with E61-10, Glasco 29-11, Mt Marion FAST, Port Ewen to EK station 1, Ruby to EK station 2, UC Cause and Origin, Central Hudson Gas and Electric, Car 56, 56-1, Mobile Life
1711 – Frequency 4 for ops, 25-18 Responding
1714 – Additional tankers from Ruby and Spring Lake to the scene.
1718 – Saugerties with one engine to stand by at the Glasco station.
1719 – Glasco with 29-13 to the scene.
1721 – Bloomington with one engine to stand by at Spring Lake station.
1722 – Saugerties responding to Glasco
1726 – Bloomington standing by
1733 – Update to command – All mutual aid has been filled, four fire investigators responding, Central Hudson responding with no ETA
1735 – Ulster Hose a second call for the agency with a FAST to Highland for a possible structure fire
1538 – Mt. Marion all available manpower to stand by in quarters, Centerville with one engine to the Mt. Marion station.
1539 – 56-A and 56-S arriving
1540 – Saugerties to fill tankers at Cafaldo Park, 53-30 to take the job from the standby detail.
1753 – Spring Lake 59-20 is in service, Bloomington is released from standby
1-12-11
0908 - East Kingston dispatched for a rekindle.
0914 - 25-18 arriving

First of all, chains are primarily for ice and slippery packed down snow, not necessarily snow. You can make good progress with no chains of any kind thru virgin snow where traffic has not packed it down and made it icy on the road surface. Even if you are driving your POV and start to slide the first thing you do is get out of the vehicle tracks and on to virgin snow to regain traction.
Automatic chains are excellent in urban settings. Main and secondary roads are usuallly salted /sanded to control Ice early and there is no need for chains. When you leave the main roads and encounter slippery roads, you switch to onspots.
You need both onspots and reguler chains because at about 4-6" of snow, onspots will build up snow between the tire and the rubber onspot wheel and push the onspot away from the tire.
Driving on clean pavement with regular chains has a tendency to "throw a chain" and the loose crosslink will swing and possibly cause significant body damage.
So, the use of onspots or standard chains shouldn't have anything to do with laziness (unless your'e too lazy to put them on), or Golf.
They are tools in your toolbox and applied as conditions warrant. How do you know when conditions warrant? Take a ride.

If we are dispatched, we will come. If the PD gets there first and it's minor and dispatch tells us so, we would slow down our response. We wont return to quarters unless told by the FD IC on scene, or we get there and evaluate. We trust our PD agencies, but belive in the "trust, but verify" motto.

Date:4/19/10
Time:2145
Location: NYS THRUWAY PAST SPRINGTOWN RD UNDERPASS, PLATTEKILL
Frequency: 33.48,46.46
Units Operating: PLATTEKILL, MLSS
Weather Conditions: FAIR
Description Of Incident: BOX TRUCK FIRE
Reporters/Writer:
2150 WORKING FIRE AT APPROX.
2200 REPORT OF FIREFIGHTER DOWN POSSIBLY DUE TO INHALATION OF AN UNKNOWN SUBSTANCE, 2205 MOBILE LIFE ALS UNIT OUT OF NEWBURGH TO INTERCEPT WITH PLATTEKILL.
MLSS 286 INTERCEPTED WITH PLATTEKILL EMS
PT BEING TRANSPORTED ALS
ATF TO THE SCENE
UNKNOWN FURTHER

Date:4-4-10
Time: 12:05-15:17, 18:16-18:29
Location: 235 Chestnut Hill Road
Frequency: UC Dispatch, UC Fire ground 5
Units Operating: Woodstock: 67- 0,10,13,14,15,17,21,31,40,41,42,43,50 West Hurley: 66-12
Weather Conditions: Warm, Sunny
Description Of Incident: Working Structure Fire
Reporters/Writer: Ach67-1a
Some times may not be correct or even there. I didn't catch most of em due to driving the ladder.
12:05 UC911 Woodstock Stations 1,4,5 Dispatched for reported Mattress on fire.
12:05 67-2, 67-14 responding.
12:05 67-15 Responding to station with full crews for apparatus from special drill.
12:06 67-2 Large column of smoke visible from center of town. Request Co. 66 with tanker and manpower and additional alarms for manpower and remaining Woodstock tankers.
12:07 67-0,40,42,50 responding
12:09 67-10,13,17 responding
12:09 67-2,14,40,42 On scene reporting well involved structure fire with extension to deck of neighboring exposure
12:13 67-10,13 arriving
12: 66-12 o/s
12: 67-17 o/s
12: Additional m/a request for engine from co.66 to setup draft at Zena school.
12: Co.66 unable to assemble engine. Tankers rerouted to hydrant at golf course for refilling.
13: Under control lengthy overhaul in progress
14: 67-17 released from scene driver to pick up 67-15 at station and return to scene to pick up hose
15:17 All units in service in quarters
18:16 Woodstock co.s 1 and 4 dispatched for rekindle of previous fire
18:16 67-2 responding
18:19 67-10,13,40 responding
18:21 67-2 o/s return all equipment with exception of 67-40. Smoking fence post. homeowners unable to put out due to melted garden hose sustained in previous fire
18:29 All units in service

A. Did they get there?
B. Did they serve the purpose that they were called for?
C. Did they have adequate manpower/ equipment?
D. Was there untoward effect (loss of life/ increased risk) secondary to their delayed response under extreme circumstances (ie. 3 extra alarm fires in the same Battalion)?
E. Did that response/ utilization of resources/ specific department preplan save or spend manpower from a department that otherwise dedicates limited manpower to high volume areas?
F. Would it be different if it was 1100 hrs on a weekday?
These are questions that when answered will lead to a productive conversation, otherwise there is a lot of scanner listening - armchair quarterbacking in this discussion which seems to be an increasing trend in this forum. This is extremely counterproductive,leads to overall misinformation, and threads being locked.
Albeit there are a few with tride and true fireground experience speaking of this call, most partaking in this thread (including myself and 90% of the membership here on EMTBravo) have somewhat limited fireground experience (just from age and profile information) in comparison to the scopes of decision making that is required in such unique situations (ie. practical preplans for multiple extra alarm fires in the same area with limited manpower/ resources and water supply coordination for a hydranted city during a state of emergency that essentially puts all of your hydrants out of service). Perhaps before we break out the "jump to conclusion mats" we could base our $h!t talking on some valid information. Perhaps "senior members", UC 911/ DC 911 Dispatchers, Emergency Management professionals, or a Chief of an involved Department would care to elaborate prior to this becoming a "blue light argument".

Milton Fire was first. They called marlboro with a engine, highland fast team, engine and tanker, clintondale with tanker. while that fire was going on highland got called to a worker. now marlboro is highlands fast team. they were already in milton. that is why hughsonville was called. highland PREPLANED it that way in case of a situation like that. and then plattikill gets a worker that marlboro is also fast team for. now note Milton and highland use the same mutual aid companies most of the time. now when both get a worker at the same time other companies need to get called in.

Also, OSHA only requires you to have bourkes eye shield while NFPA requires more of a full face shield. I thought that this was the only main difference between the requirements, I was not aware of the two inner shells. Before you purchase anything, make sure your department will accept it. If the helmet you purchase meets of exceeds the departments requirements they have to accept it. However, if it does not meet your department requirements, the department does not have to accept them.
Meeting the NFPA requirements for eye protection will make it safer for you, but not having it is not a death sentence. FDNY uses bourkes eye shields on their helmets.

Date: 1-20-10
Time:1712
Location: Braziel Hill Rd
Frequency: 33.48, 46.46
Units Operating: Accord, Olive, Kerhonkson, Cripplebush,
Weather Conditions: 35 and near dark
Description Of Incident: Working trailer fire
Reporters/Writer: Patch6713
1712 - Dispatch for accord for a reported structure fire
1713 - 15-2 responding
1713 - Police responding
1714 - 15-B responding
1714 - County advising responding units - driveway only accessible by a 4x4. Occupants going back into the house to retrieve pets
1715 - Car 15 responding, given update
1716 - Olive command requesting Olive, Kerhonkson, Cripplebush with tankers to the scene
1716 - 15-30 responding
1716 - 15-2 O/S working fire
1718 - Car 15 requests lay 4 inch in, 15-2 advising 1/2 mile driveway, Car 15 still requests lay 4 inch in
1720 - Fire ground 4 established
1722 - 15-22 O/S
1726 - All Mutual aid filled
1728 - Kerhonkson and Napanock with additional tankers to the scene, request a full second alarm, one ambulance to the scene
1733 - Cause and Origin to the scene
1734 - Car 42 responding
1734 - 56-S responding
1735 - Co 15 establishing a draft

I think we're missing the point here. if the leaders of these departments mentioned didn't feel that the local PD often abused the use of Fire Police on a regular basis to direct traffic all over town, well after the emergency is over, probably sometimes when the rest of the FD hasn't even been called, then I don't think we would even be having this dicussion. The point the FD's are trying to make is that it's not their responsibility to manage traffic for the police. they're supposed to ASSIST the PD in controlling it, not have to control it totally because there's only 1 LEO on the scene. Major incidents, disasters, MCI's aside they shouldnt be out there for 10's of hours for every incident.
As for that truck they just bought, it will probably be used at the scene/ relatively close to the scene to protect the dept's firefighters and other misc. personnel at the scene as it's intended, instead of having guys spread out all over town managing the ripple effect traffic snarls caused by the scene. The feeling I'm getting from this statement is that they don't mean that that wont be doing any traffic contol at all, only that they will not leave what is normally the older population of the FD out on the road for hours on end after everyone else has gone home. Anyone else see my point?
Our dept. gives PD 2 hours to bring in the proper staffing to manage the traffic so we can be released, after a couple incidents and conflicts that was the final decision made. 2 hours after the emergency is over and the incident is no longer a FD action then it's up to PD to take over.

1) We empty the fireplace or woodstove.
2) We spray a dry chem extinguisher up the chimney until it comes out of the top of the chimney and there is no more fire present.
3) If step 2 didn't work, we have chains that we will use. It is part of our policy to avoid unnecessarily going on the roof.

I'd be upset if blue lights were taken away from volunteers. While I feel a majority of EMT bravo users are located in bedroom communities of nyc there are many vollies in rural communities of ny. Places that make Pine Plains and Millerton seem like big cities. I know when i'm in parts of Ulstser, Sullivan, Green, and Columbia Counties that if I see a blue light I pull over for them. Someone needs help, I don't have a scanner, and it could be my family they are going to help. Do I agree with people driving like they do sometime with blue lights. No. Not at all. I think if the state decided to take blue or green lights away i'd be upset for the volunteers in the more rural areas of the state where the blue light still means something.
Would I still work as a firefighter with out a pension? No. I would have gone and become a police officer and continued to be a volunteer firefighter. Collected two pensions at once, LOSAP and State. Seems like no one wants to look at the law enforcement pension system. Why didn't we ask if police officers would still be cops if they didn't have a pension? After all we are both in the same pension system.