SECTMB

I just thought I would chime in re: Bnechis.
While we may not always agree, I always value an alternate opinion, especially one based on a wealth of education and experience. I often will check out a topic because I see he has posted on it.
The fire service, both locally and nationally is riddled with important issues affecting our delivery of services, not the least of which is manpower. Maybe someday the information and ideas exchanged and debated on this site will provide some practical solutions that get implemented for the benefit of the fire service and therefore the benefit of the citizens we serve.

I just thought I would chime in re: Bnechis.
While we may not always agree, I always value an alternate opinion, especially one based on a wealth of education and experience. I often will check out a topic because I see he has posted on it.
The fire service, both locally and nationally is riddled with important issues affecting our delivery of services, not the least of which is manpower. Maybe someday the information and ideas exchanged and debated on this site will provide some practical solutions that get implemented for the benefit of the fire service and therefore the benefit of the citizens we serve.

I just thought I would chime in re: Bnechis.
While we may not always agree, I always value an alternate opinion, especially one based on a wealth of education and experience. I often will check out a topic because I see he has posted on it.
The fire service, both locally and nationally is riddled with important issues affecting our delivery of services, not the least of which is manpower. Maybe someday the information and ideas exchanged and debated on this site will provide some practical solutions that get implemented for the benefit of the fire service and therefore the benefit of the citizens we serve.

I just thought I would chime in re: Bnechis.
While we may not always agree, I always value an alternate opinion, especially one based on a wealth of education and experience. I often will check out a topic because I see he has posted on it.
The fire service, both locally and nationally is riddled with important issues affecting our delivery of services, not the least of which is manpower. Maybe someday the information and ideas exchanged and debated on this site will provide some practical solutions that get implemented for the benefit of the fire service and therefore the benefit of the citizens we serve.

I just thought I would chime in re: Bnechis.
While we may not always agree, I always value an alternate opinion, especially one based on a wealth of education and experience. I often will check out a topic because I see he has posted on it.
The fire service, both locally and nationally is riddled with important issues affecting our delivery of services, not the least of which is manpower. Maybe someday the information and ideas exchanged and debated on this site will provide some practical solutions that get implemented for the benefit of the fire service and therefore the benefit of the citizens we serve.

I just thought I would chime in re: Bnechis.
While we may not always agree, I always value an alternate opinion, especially one based on a wealth of education and experience. I often will check out a topic because I see he has posted on it.
The fire service, both locally and nationally is riddled with important issues affecting our delivery of services, not the least of which is manpower. Maybe someday the information and ideas exchanged and debated on this site will provide some practical solutions that get implemented for the benefit of the fire service and therefore the benefit of the citizens we serve.

I just thought I would chime in re: Bnechis.
While we may not always agree, I always value an alternate opinion, especially one based on a wealth of education and experience. I often will check out a topic because I see he has posted on it.
The fire service, both locally and nationally is riddled with important issues affecting our delivery of services, not the least of which is manpower. Maybe someday the information and ideas exchanged and debated on this site will provide some practical solutions that get implemented for the benefit of the fire service and therefore the benefit of the citizens we serve.

I just thought I would chime in re: Bnechis.
While we may not always agree, I always value an alternate opinion, especially one based on a wealth of education and experience. I often will check out a topic because I see he has posted on it.
The fire service, both locally and nationally is riddled with important issues affecting our delivery of services, not the least of which is manpower. Maybe someday the information and ideas exchanged and debated on this site will provide some practical solutions that get implemented for the benefit of the fire service and therefore the benefit of the citizens we serve.

I just thought I would chime in re: Bnechis.
While we may not always agree, I always value an alternate opinion, especially one based on a wealth of education and experience. I often will check out a topic because I see he has posted on it.
The fire service, both locally and nationally is riddled with important issues affecting our delivery of services, not the least of which is manpower. Maybe someday the information and ideas exchanged and debated on this site will provide some practical solutions that get implemented for the benefit of the fire service and therefore the benefit of the citizens we serve.

Riding the rear step or up in the hose bed putting on your gear while the truck was responding. Not 'your' gear, the gear in the racks mounted on the truck for everyone, first come first served.
Canvas coats, rubber boots, poly helmets, quickly replaced, personally, with nomex coat, bunkers, gloves and leather cairns new yorker helmet.
Those elephant airpack hoses that pinched off when you crawled through a window and cut off your air.
The manual transmission 1948 open cab, no doors engine that had to be double clutched and you'd get passed by civilian cars if you had more than one lane of travel.
Our new engine in 1974 with the first diesel automatic in the department. The end of civilians passing us while responding.
2-1/2" hose replaced with state of the art 3", 1-1/2" attack lines replaced with 1-3/4".
Plectrons in the house, sirens and horns for outside. Motorola Minitor pagers only if you bought one for yourself.
One portable radio per truck, two frequencies, 46.14 and 46.26
Wood ground, roof and attic ladders.
Blue 'Kojack' light for your POV.
Having wig-wags before the PD on my POV.
No County fire training facility.
Being one of the first five members of your department to become one those new EMTs.
Tower ladders, or elevated platforms, were very rare.
Getting in on the 'mini-pumper' craze with an underpowered, overloaded, 4 wheel drive that sank to the axles first time off road.
But, after 40 years, helping your neighbors and those visiting your community, in their time of need, never gets old.

According to the brief story, both he and his wife sued. I can only assume she sued for lack of consortium while he recovered from whatever injury he suffered. I wonder what value her suit put on his stud services.
I thought injuries suffered while in performance of official duties were covered by workers compensation.

With all due respect to anyone trying to attach historical actions, particularly those of the United States, with the current climate pervasive throughout the Middle East and the rise and expansion of radical Islam, please keep in mind that the United States is 232 years old and only engaged in extended international intervention with our involvement in WWI 95 years ago.
The players in the Middle East have been at this for thousands of years. There are relationships and rivalries that we can't possibly get our heads around. What do we have for historical reference, the Hatfields and McCoys? Now throw in righteous religiosity and it goes to levels that are incomprehensible.
Don't forget, maybe we 'installed' the Shah, ( the same can be said of most of the Middle East countries whose 'leaders'/royal families/potentates were put/helped into place post WWII) but what was the quality of life for the Iranian populace then vs. now and remember, we did not support the Shah either when the revolution took place. We allowed his government to fall, Carter hung him out to dry.
I think I shouldn't care about whatever took place to get us to this point. I just care about what we're going to do moving forward and how are we going to prevent those who want our demise from achieving it. And make no mistake, there are many individuals out there with Napoleon complexes that want to see our way of life consigned to the scrap heap of humanity.
I think some of these people are counting on a perceived pacifism on our part following two wars to advance their agenda to our detriment.

You know, these staffing issues, whether rural Pennsylvania or suburban Westchester, boil down to this. If you want to rely on a volunteer system, you will sometimes get an adequate response of dedicated, professional citizen firefighters who will bust their buts to save your life and property. Sometimes, Not. Thats not a negative criticism, its reality. In a volunteer system you can get a huge response or no response depending on time of day, time of year, whatever.
You want a guaranteed 24/7 response. You have to go paid and the taxpayers have to be willing to accept the increase in cost to offset the benefit.

I also must say that this is not an out of control thread.
What I think is happening in Yorktown is the ages old continuation of a narrow view and short term fixes for long term problems. Most of the comments and suggestions have been forward thinking.
Volunteer ranks are diminishing for a number of reasons, most of which have to do with whose got the time when job(s) and family commitments take more time today than in the past and the demands of volunteering take much more time. Paid department ranks are diminishing as well due to budget cut backs.
So it should be incumbent upon each fire department/district to give some consideration to how they might work with their neighboring departments to overcome some of the mutual problems we all face.
By the way, if anybody needed a new firehouse, it's Millwood. Theirs should have been condemned years ago, and I believe was so full of building code violations they couldn't use it to host other than fire department functions. Theirs couldn't get built fast enough. But for all its size, and it's big, no bunk provisions for the inevitable advent of paid personnel, be it 5, 10 or more years from now. At least not on the plans I saw.

I will be interesting to see the plans. I keep seeing firehouse renovations and new construction, including my own, with no accommodation for bunk rooms. These firehouses are planned for service lives long into the future yet there is not long term planning for part time or permanent staff.
Also, what are the numbers of Yorktown members in proximity to the new firehouse siting? Great to have a firehouse to cover a portion of the district, provided there
are also members available to respond to it.
I wonder if some of the more out of the way areas would be better served by a dual response.

I will be interesting to see the plans. I keep seeing firehouse renovations and new construction, including my own, with no accommodation for bunk rooms. These firehouses are planned for service lives long into the future yet there is not long term planning for part time or permanent staff.
Also, what are the numbers of Yorktown members in proximity to the new firehouse siting? Great to have a firehouse to cover a portion of the district, provided there
are also members available to respond to it.
I wonder if some of the more out of the way areas would be better served by a dual response.

Let's blame the lawyers. And remember that most legislators are lawyers.
In the 'old' days, pre 911, a person called the local police to report an odor or smoke. They sent a patrol car to check it out. Now with 911 the FD is dispatched to every single call, every single automatic alarm. Why? liability. My house burned down because you 'checked it out' before you sent the firetruck. The patient died because you checked it out first and we lost time in our golden hour. How many 'steam from the shower set of the alarm' calls to you hear? In a week?
Also, before we became a nation of milquetoasts you took yourself to the hospital for most anything short of a traumatic amputation. Now you call 911 for a hangnail. I monitor the scanner while working from home and I hear the dispatches. An engine and a rescue responding to a fall down drunk, etc. etc. It used to be the cops would pick him up and take him to get help. No more. And this in districts where, if a fire call were to come in, mutual aid would be required because their on duty manpower and apparatus are tending to a drunk, etc.
Volusia County is trying to cope with their issues. They're trying to find a balance between call volumes, staffing and money. What works or doesn't work for them may have no bearing on another district as each district has its own unique characteristics. Don't fault them for trying and I haven't heard a definitive plan as to how they plan to deploy these rigs.
The public isn't demanding more and more services, the legislators over the years, to curry favor with the electorate created the nanny state and the public is taking advantage of it. I don't remember the exact date, but personal responsibility disappeared, I think, about 20 years ago or so.
Unfortunately the public has no more money to contribute to support the system as it is today. Catch 22.

Also this week it was reported that just with the four uniformed unions, annual pension costs will exceed annual salary costs. Then there was the highly reported case of the rubber room teacher who after ten years out of the classroom continues to collect 100K in salary on his way to an 85K a year pension for life.
There are 8 million people in NYC alone and only a couple of hundred thousand city, state workers. As long as the public continues to read stories of ex uniformed services employees collecting pensions twice the average annual income of private sector persons, some on disability pensions while competing in marathons, etc. and
stories that 3/4 of all train conductors get disability pensions, and rubber room stories galore, the public will not rally to the defense of the unions issues.
The public's attitude is going to be do more with less, just like we have to do. A four man engine crew will just have to do the same work as a five man crew, and so on. etc, etc.
The unions have been their own best and worst enemy. Particularly the teachers. We have continued to spend more and more every year on the schools and yet we produce more morons than ever before with lower graduation and test scores. With the schools in particular there is no correlation between more spending and better results.
In the case of the City, you can't blame Bloomberg. You need to go back to, at least, Lindsay and everyone, Mayors and Council members since and every head of every union that 'punted', 'kicked the can', etc. and failed to act responsibly. Same on all the other levels of Govt.
They didn't act responsibly so we've already reached the tipping point, we're on the downside now and there isn't anybody within these groups that has the knowledge, ability and leadership to change the direction of the slide. There are just too many selfish interests to accommodate and not enough public money left to do it.

Also this week it was reported that just with the four uniformed unions, annual pension costs will exceed annual salary costs. Then there was the highly reported case of the rubber room teacher who after ten years out of the classroom continues to collect 100K in salary on his way to an 85K a year pension for life.
There are 8 million people in NYC alone and only a couple of hundred thousand city, state workers. As long as the public continues to read stories of ex uniformed services employees collecting pensions twice the average annual income of private sector persons, some on disability pensions while competing in marathons, etc. and
stories that 3/4 of all train conductors get disability pensions, and rubber room stories galore, the public will not rally to the defense of the unions issues.
The public's attitude is going to be do more with less, just like we have to do. A four man engine crew will just have to do the same work as a five man crew, and so on. etc, etc.
The unions have been their own best and worst enemy. Particularly the teachers. We have continued to spend more and more every year on the schools and yet we produce more morons than ever before with lower graduation and test scores. With the schools in particular there is no correlation between more spending and better results.
In the case of the City, you can't blame Bloomberg. You need to go back to, at least, Lindsay and everyone, Mayors and Council members since and every head of every union that 'punted', 'kicked the can', etc. and failed to act responsibly. Same on all the other levels of Govt.
They didn't act responsibly so we've already reached the tipping point, we're on the downside now and there isn't anybody within these groups that has the knowledge, ability and leadership to change the direction of the slide. There are just too many selfish interests to accommodate and not enough public money left to do it.

Today, so many of the apologists and agitators that fostered such violence against the police are 'respected' members of the community, the city council, local governing boards and the media.
Think Rangel, Sharpton, Barron to name a few, think Ayres from Chicago and the countless other 'left leaning radicals' from the 60's and 70's that have found a
welcome home in local and national government. 40 years of behind the scenes, under the radar activism from within is why were at the tipping point today.

I don't think you can equate coming upon a hostage or robbery situation with coming upon a fire. I think the immediacy of action is on very different levels.
Maybe the well intended actions of passersby good samaritans had unintended consequences, maybe not. Maybe the outcome was already realized before they took action.
In the wake of the tragedy I find it comforting to know that there are still people who will intervene at great personal risk to help others.
Remember the video not too long ago of the passersby who banded together to lift the burning vehicle off the person. Had they waited for the FD the outcome would not have been the favorable one it turned out to be.
Condolences to the family and friends of the victims and kudos to the firefighters and civilians who tried so hard to effect a different outcome.

I have two comments.
1. Ironic that today firehouse.com has an article on firefighter obesity!
2. You guys, and you know who you are, tell me some more about the greater levels of training and competency of paid 'professional' departments.
Oh yea!!!

Well, I wasn't there but I monitored 60 Control from the start. What is they say about real estate: Location, Location, Location. In this case it worked against everyone. Narrow, long street access, significant distances for responding departments, poor water supply and a big head start in a large volume structure.
The size of the fire and the size of the response without any injuries I'm aware of is rather remarkable.