Reputation from JJB531 - Page 2

OoO liked a post in a topic by JJB531 in Colo. shooting: Police pleaded for ambulances July 28, 2012

T John, are there more resources out there to get more information about the 3 Echo program being rolled out in Minnesota?
I don't think that anyone can argue that a coordinated PD/FD/EMS response to these incidents is necessary, and I agree with you wholeheartedly T John that we do need to take a better look at how we respond to a hostile event. But there are a few factors, like them or not, that are going to hinder the type of aggressive coordinated response to these incidents we would all like to see.
No matter how necessary it is, no matter how much it will benefit the victims of a hostile incident, there is still one rather significant issue at hand that would need to be addressed before we can even consider placing non-sworn EMS providers in a hostile environment and task them with the extraction of wounded victims... LODI/LODD benefits for EMS responders. I understand this can vary from state to state, even agency to agency. I'm going based off my "local knowledge" of EMS systems in the Metro NY area.
There is a plethora of training programs to prepare EMS providers to work in a hostile/tactical environment. There is a plethora of high speed tactical medical equipment designed for EMS responders to operate in a tactical environment. We can supply EMS providers with ballistic protection and other specialized PPE to operate in the midst of a tactical assignment. The training and the equipment is readily available, and incorporating EMS into these types of responses is not an unrealistic or impossible venture.
Now try convincing a volunteer or even commercially paid EMS provider to don such equipment and go charging forward with PD into a potentially hostile environment. It is easy to have our judgment clouded by the thought of throwing on this high-speed equipment and go forth to render aid to our victims in the tactical theatre of operations. It sounds exciting, looks cool, has the CDI (chicks dig it) factor associated with it, and so on. But what if things go south, and now the EMS provider ends up a victim him/herself?
I know as an LEO, if I am seriously injured in the line of duty, I will have the financial security through a generous line of duty salary to pay my mortgage, my bills, etc. If I am killed during the scope of my employment as an LEO, my beneficiary will be well taken care of financially by my employer, union, and numerous police foundations. Now if I switch patches on my shirt and act in Paramedic mode, serious injury leads to basic workers compensation, and if I'm a volunteer who now can not work and provide for my family and pay my mortagage and bills, I have to hope the generous public will donate money to alleviate any financial strain I have endured as a result of a serious injury. Killed in the line of duty... maybe some donations for my family, but nothing guaranteed. Like it or not, these are issues that need to be raised first before we can expect any EMS provider to take on such a task. Anyone who says it's a selfish way to look at things or just doesn't care and is going to go charging in there anyway cause "it's the right thing to do", then go for it. When I was younger I had that mindset that I didn't care. As I've become more informed and a little more experienced, my mindset has changed a bit. It's not about being a coward, it's realizing that if we're going to take on this great responsibility, then take it on with addressing ALL of the variables and issues, not just the obvious issues of training and equipment. We are all adults who hopefully understand the dangers and magnitude of certain incidents and are therefore capable of making our own decisions about our fate, whether it's running into a burning house without PPE to effect a rescue, or entering an unsecured location that may contain a potential armed threat to render aid to the injured. Most times these are split second decisions made within a moments notice as an incident is rapidly unfolding in front of us; but if we're talking about a coordinated, pre-planned response, we need to look beyond the obvious operational and logistical issues.
And for those of you who are going to say, "well I can get injured or killed at the scene of an MVA as an EMT", you're right, you can get killed at an MVA, responding to a "fall down go boom", dealing with an intox in the back of the ambulance, and so on. That's why we take certain safeguards to make these scenes safe; road flares, blocking lanes of traffic, PD escorts, safe driving practices, etc. While we can't can't control every single variable at these "routine" incidents, we can control and mitigate the majority of them. Hostile scenes have so many variables that as Helicopper pointed out, it can take hours for a scene to be deemed safe. Is the shooter identified? Contained? In custody? Threat neutralized? Are there multiple shooters? Explosive/secondary devices? There are a lot of variables to process that typically require specialized PD resources (SWAT, bomb squads, aviation, etc.), and it may take time to mobilize such resources and then time for each resource to carry out its function. So I fully understand that anything can happen at any time, and that's why these issues of LODI/LODD benefits for EMS providers shouldn't just be limited to active shooter or hostile situations.

OoO liked a post in a topic by JJB531 in Colo. shooting: Police pleaded for ambulances July 28, 2012

T John, are there more resources out there to get more information about the 3 Echo program being rolled out in Minnesota?
I don't think that anyone can argue that a coordinated PD/FD/EMS response to these incidents is necessary, and I agree with you wholeheartedly T John that we do need to take a better look at how we respond to a hostile event. But there are a few factors, like them or not, that are going to hinder the type of aggressive coordinated response to these incidents we would all like to see.
No matter how necessary it is, no matter how much it will benefit the victims of a hostile incident, there is still one rather significant issue at hand that would need to be addressed before we can even consider placing non-sworn EMS providers in a hostile environment and task them with the extraction of wounded victims... LODI/LODD benefits for EMS responders. I understand this can vary from state to state, even agency to agency. I'm going based off my "local knowledge" of EMS systems in the Metro NY area.
There is a plethora of training programs to prepare EMS providers to work in a hostile/tactical environment. There is a plethora of high speed tactical medical equipment designed for EMS responders to operate in a tactical environment. We can supply EMS providers with ballistic protection and other specialized PPE to operate in the midst of a tactical assignment. The training and the equipment is readily available, and incorporating EMS into these types of responses is not an unrealistic or impossible venture.
Now try convincing a volunteer or even commercially paid EMS provider to don such equipment and go charging forward with PD into a potentially hostile environment. It is easy to have our judgment clouded by the thought of throwing on this high-speed equipment and go forth to render aid to our victims in the tactical theatre of operations. It sounds exciting, looks cool, has the CDI (chicks dig it) factor associated with it, and so on. But what if things go south, and now the EMS provider ends up a victim him/herself?
I know as an LEO, if I am seriously injured in the line of duty, I will have the financial security through a generous line of duty salary to pay my mortgage, my bills, etc. If I am killed during the scope of my employment as an LEO, my beneficiary will be well taken care of financially by my employer, union, and numerous police foundations. Now if I switch patches on my shirt and act in Paramedic mode, serious injury leads to basic workers compensation, and if I'm a volunteer who now can not work and provide for my family and pay my mortagage and bills, I have to hope the generous public will donate money to alleviate any financial strain I have endured as a result of a serious injury. Killed in the line of duty... maybe some donations for my family, but nothing guaranteed. Like it or not, these are issues that need to be raised first before we can expect any EMS provider to take on such a task. Anyone who says it's a selfish way to look at things or just doesn't care and is going to go charging in there anyway cause "it's the right thing to do", then go for it. When I was younger I had that mindset that I didn't care. As I've become more informed and a little more experienced, my mindset has changed a bit. It's not about being a coward, it's realizing that if we're going to take on this great responsibility, then take it on with addressing ALL of the variables and issues, not just the obvious issues of training and equipment. We are all adults who hopefully understand the dangers and magnitude of certain incidents and are therefore capable of making our own decisions about our fate, whether it's running into a burning house without PPE to effect a rescue, or entering an unsecured location that may contain a potential armed threat to render aid to the injured. Most times these are split second decisions made within a moments notice as an incident is rapidly unfolding in front of us; but if we're talking about a coordinated, pre-planned response, we need to look beyond the obvious operational and logistical issues.
And for those of you who are going to say, "well I can get injured or killed at the scene of an MVA as an EMT", you're right, you can get killed at an MVA, responding to a "fall down go boom", dealing with an intox in the back of the ambulance, and so on. That's why we take certain safeguards to make these scenes safe; road flares, blocking lanes of traffic, PD escorts, safe driving practices, etc. While we can't can't control every single variable at these "routine" incidents, we can control and mitigate the majority of them. Hostile scenes have so many variables that as Helicopper pointed out, it can take hours for a scene to be deemed safe. Is the shooter identified? Contained? In custody? Threat neutralized? Are there multiple shooters? Explosive/secondary devices? There are a lot of variables to process that typically require specialized PD resources (SWAT, bomb squads, aviation, etc.), and it may take time to mobilize such resources and then time for each resource to carry out its function. So I fully understand that anything can happen at any time, and that's why these issues of LODI/LODD benefits for EMS providers shouldn't just be limited to active shooter or hostile situations.

OoO liked a post in a topic by JJB531 in Colo. shooting: Police pleaded for ambulances July 28, 2012

T John, are there more resources out there to get more information about the 3 Echo program being rolled out in Minnesota?
I don't think that anyone can argue that a coordinated PD/FD/EMS response to these incidents is necessary, and I agree with you wholeheartedly T John that we do need to take a better look at how we respond to a hostile event. But there are a few factors, like them or not, that are going to hinder the type of aggressive coordinated response to these incidents we would all like to see.
No matter how necessary it is, no matter how much it will benefit the victims of a hostile incident, there is still one rather significant issue at hand that would need to be addressed before we can even consider placing non-sworn EMS providers in a hostile environment and task them with the extraction of wounded victims... LODI/LODD benefits for EMS responders. I understand this can vary from state to state, even agency to agency. I'm going based off my "local knowledge" of EMS systems in the Metro NY area.
There is a plethora of training programs to prepare EMS providers to work in a hostile/tactical environment. There is a plethora of high speed tactical medical equipment designed for EMS responders to operate in a tactical environment. We can supply EMS providers with ballistic protection and other specialized PPE to operate in the midst of a tactical assignment. The training and the equipment is readily available, and incorporating EMS into these types of responses is not an unrealistic or impossible venture.
Now try convincing a volunteer or even commercially paid EMS provider to don such equipment and go charging forward with PD into a potentially hostile environment. It is easy to have our judgment clouded by the thought of throwing on this high-speed equipment and go forth to render aid to our victims in the tactical theatre of operations. It sounds exciting, looks cool, has the CDI (chicks dig it) factor associated with it, and so on. But what if things go south, and now the EMS provider ends up a victim him/herself?
I know as an LEO, if I am seriously injured in the line of duty, I will have the financial security through a generous line of duty salary to pay my mortgage, my bills, etc. If I am killed during the scope of my employment as an LEO, my beneficiary will be well taken care of financially by my employer, union, and numerous police foundations. Now if I switch patches on my shirt and act in Paramedic mode, serious injury leads to basic workers compensation, and if I'm a volunteer who now can not work and provide for my family and pay my mortagage and bills, I have to hope the generous public will donate money to alleviate any financial strain I have endured as a result of a serious injury. Killed in the line of duty... maybe some donations for my family, but nothing guaranteed. Like it or not, these are issues that need to be raised first before we can expect any EMS provider to take on such a task. Anyone who says it's a selfish way to look at things or just doesn't care and is going to go charging in there anyway cause "it's the right thing to do", then go for it. When I was younger I had that mindset that I didn't care. As I've become more informed and a little more experienced, my mindset has changed a bit. It's not about being a coward, it's realizing that if we're going to take on this great responsibility, then take it on with addressing ALL of the variables and issues, not just the obvious issues of training and equipment. We are all adults who hopefully understand the dangers and magnitude of certain incidents and are therefore capable of making our own decisions about our fate, whether it's running into a burning house without PPE to effect a rescue, or entering an unsecured location that may contain a potential armed threat to render aid to the injured. Most times these are split second decisions made within a moments notice as an incident is rapidly unfolding in front of us; but if we're talking about a coordinated, pre-planned response, we need to look beyond the obvious operational and logistical issues.
And for those of you who are going to say, "well I can get injured or killed at the scene of an MVA as an EMT", you're right, you can get killed at an MVA, responding to a "fall down go boom", dealing with an intox in the back of the ambulance, and so on. That's why we take certain safeguards to make these scenes safe; road flares, blocking lanes of traffic, PD escorts, safe driving practices, etc. While we can't can't control every single variable at these "routine" incidents, we can control and mitigate the majority of them. Hostile scenes have so many variables that as Helicopper pointed out, it can take hours for a scene to be deemed safe. Is the shooter identified? Contained? In custody? Threat neutralized? Are there multiple shooters? Explosive/secondary devices? There are a lot of variables to process that typically require specialized PD resources (SWAT, bomb squads, aviation, etc.), and it may take time to mobilize such resources and then time for each resource to carry out its function. So I fully understand that anything can happen at any time, and that's why these issues of LODI/LODD benefits for EMS providers shouldn't just be limited to active shooter or hostile situations.

rfdu39 liked a post in a topic by JJB531 in FDNY Paramedic and Distinguished EMTBravo Member NY10570 Condolences July 25, 2012

Truly a sad day for NY10570's friends, coworkers, family, and his extended family here on EMTBravo. It didn't take a very long to realize NY10570 was a consummate professional who loved being a Paramedic. The knowledge he shared with the EMTBravo community, and the manner in which he articulated his responses and views was a testament to the provider and the person he IS.
It's a huge loss for the EMS and EMTBravo family... I'm not the sentimental type but the loss of NY10570 is a complete shock and is being felt by all the active members here... There will always be a void here on EMTBravo without him around.
Godspeed Brother.