lad12derff

Wouldn't a ticket have been a better option?

Old cellar nozzles? ( insert sarcasm )

Old cellar nozzles? ( insert sarcasm )

Or they can continue to spend money on studies until they get the one they are looking for.

Or they can continue to spend money on studies until they get the one they are looking for.

This study went quietly into the sunset and why you ask?... Maybe it's because it's not what somebody wanted to hear.

I know we have been down this road before and it just would not sit right if we don't bring it up again. When I respond to a call and I am advised by 60 Control to stage away till PD arrives I do just that. I can tell you that for every shooting, stabbing and assault call I respond to I ask if PD in en route. I also advise that we will stage away until clear to enter the scene. Do I want to help someone in distress? Yes I do. Do I want to be part of the action? Yes I do. Do I want to injure or kill one of my Brothers under my supervision and not return them home the same way they came to work. NO FRIGGIN WAY!!! Do we need to get on the radio to advise PD to stage away till our arrival? 2 Members of Public Safety are in critical condition for the simple fact that :
#1 They are not dressed in proper fire gear
#2 They are not wearing SCBA
#3 They most likely do not have elevator keys and or don't know how to control an elevator in a fire situation
#4 They are acting out of the scope of their job description
Does wearing a uniform transform us into something we are not? We tell civilians to vacate and do not return for valuables or anything else for that matter. When does the risk vs reward decision come into play? Do we really need to do another agency's job?
For everyone who gets his/her panties in a bunch over this post get over it! Hold a picture tight of your loved ones everyday and ask yourself one thing. Is this the smartest thing I am about to do?
I will say a prayer for the 2 NYPD members and I hope for a speedy and healthy recovery

I don't know anyone dragging these officers trough the mud here. I don't remember saying that the officers aren't sworn to protect life and property. I am tired of cops thinking the FD is against them here and on the street. The public may dislike them but I certainly do not. The facts still remain that most officers are not trained to encounter a fire in any building. How does that turn into us bad mouthing the PD? It's a fact of life. So as usual it has taken the LODD for people to wake up and smell the coffee and realize there is a problem with the system. What a shame!!
There are big differences to PD driving by a fire and stopping to render assistance while FD is notified or being dispatched and racing to the scene to dove right in. They will always beat us there.
The same goes for FD driving by a crime in progress. And stopping to render assistance and waiting for PD to arrive. We just don't get dispatched though.
So in conclusion if by starting this topic we have made our Brothers in Blue rethink entering an unknown fire condition we have done our job. To save LIFE.
Stop thinking we hate you, that could not be further from the truth

If the animal PD dispatchers had actually asked the one question that would have been pertinent I wouldn't be getting my class A ready. Where is the fire, the radio run was for a 59 of a residence 2007 Surf Ave, 13th floor. Had they said 2007 surf ave fire in the hallway they would not have done what they did. We hear PD gets 2 weeks off no questions asked for smoke inhalation, thats the rumor. Nothing in the PD academy has anything to do with saving peoples lives when a fire is involved. We now have basically two dead cops, the female is not going to ever return to duty because they thought they could do something. Something would have been to make sure the doors which are sometimes borderline impossible to get open had access and that the elevators were recalled. PD should not ever be using the elevators in fireman service, that is why it is called fireman service, cause its for FD use. You specifically hear on the PD tapes, use the elevator key. When we show up if the men have to hump up 13 flights to save someone its going to take time. Why should the cop who rolls up to the fire before hand get in before us to verify to his dispatcher a fire is occurring and it never be told to FD which is in route?

I, along with 25 of my Brothers spent 2 days paying our respect to Lt Walsh and FF Kennedy. I have to tell you that there needs to be a class on proper etiquette taught to the younger generation of firefighters. I can't tell you how many members I saw carrying cases of beer on their shoulders walking the streets where our Brother was being celebrated. Guys just walking by the church with 24 on their shoulder. I don't really know if they were career or volley and don't really care who they are affiliated with but their actions disgusted me as well as other New Rochelle Firefighters. If you want to have a few beers between the service and the last drive past the sea of blue please go to a bar. If you want to tailgate and party in front of the civilians like morons please go to a football or baseball game. In front of the church and on peoples lawns is not the place!!!!

I know we have been down this road before and it just would not sit right if we don't bring it up again. When I respond to a call and I am advised by 60 Control to stage away till PD arrives I do just that. I can tell you that for every shooting, stabbing and assault call I respond to I ask if PD in en route. I also advise that we will stage away until clear to enter the scene. Do I want to help someone in distress? Yes I do. Do I want to be part of the action? Yes I do. Do I want to injure or kill one of my Brothers under my supervision and not return them home the same way they came to work. NO FRIGGIN WAY!!! Do we need to get on the radio to advise PD to stage away till our arrival? 2 Members of Public Safety are in critical condition for the simple fact that :
#1 They are not dressed in proper fire gear
#2 They are not wearing SCBA
#3 They most likely do not have elevator keys and or don't know how to control an elevator in a fire situation
#4 They are acting out of the scope of their job description
Does wearing a uniform transform us into something we are not? We tell civilians to vacate and do not return for valuables or anything else for that matter. When does the risk vs reward decision come into play? Do we really need to do another agency's job?
For everyone who gets his/her panties in a bunch over this post get over it! Hold a picture tight of your loved ones everyday and ask yourself one thing. Is this the smartest thing I am about to do?
I will say a prayer for the 2 NYPD members and I hope for a speedy and healthy recovery

I know we have been down this road before and it just would not sit right if we don't bring it up again. When I respond to a call and I am advised by 60 Control to stage away till PD arrives I do just that. I can tell you that for every shooting, stabbing and assault call I respond to I ask if PD in en route. I also advise that we will stage away until clear to enter the scene. Do I want to help someone in distress? Yes I do. Do I want to be part of the action? Yes I do. Do I want to injure or kill one of my Brothers under my supervision and not return them home the same way they came to work. NO FRIGGIN WAY!!! Do we need to get on the radio to advise PD to stage away till our arrival? 2 Members of Public Safety are in critical condition for the simple fact that :
#1 They are not dressed in proper fire gear
#2 They are not wearing SCBA
#3 They most likely do not have elevator keys and or don't know how to control an elevator in a fire situation
#4 They are acting out of the scope of their job description
Does wearing a uniform transform us into something we are not? We tell civilians to vacate and do not return for valuables or anything else for that matter. When does the risk vs reward decision come into play? Do we really need to do another agency's job?
For everyone who gets his/her panties in a bunch over this post get over it! Hold a picture tight of your loved ones everyday and ask yourself one thing. Is this the smartest thing I am about to do?
I will say a prayer for the 2 NYPD members and I hope for a speedy and healthy recovery

We need to reach out to our counterparts and ensure we are giving them some good basic training to make informed decisions on the actions they take at fires if they are in before us. It's not like the old days the smoke today can overcome you in a few breaths as we see happened here. Also we are now learning more and more about fire behavior and it's critically important for us to control ventilation especially before water is applied. We have all seen the well meaning officers on arrival who have taken windows or held the door open. We know this will quickly increase the intensity of the fire.
I can see that having them could come in handy for police matters but I think they should be forbidden from using them at fires. The responding companies need them to get to the fire floor quickly. At the very least you need to get 2 engines and 1 truck up to the fire floor to begin the attack. If PD arrives and takes one of the elevators to the upper floors that is one less for us to use to get upstairs. And lets face it in NYC's public housing it's pretty common for one elevator to be out of service.

Bratton today commented that he called several other PD's to ask if they had a protocol for fires, and they did not, because it is not their job. Fire proof MD fires are not like any other animal. Door frames are generally in block walls with steel frames and doors, in other words, you won't be donkey kicking your way in to rescue anyone. This is going to be an extremely unfortunate event that has probably like someone said been done thousand of times. Except this time they went to a rubbish fire in a public hallway and not an apt fire. Hopefully only one casualty from this is the result, although I would venture to guess she is going to be severely disabled from her lack of oxygen as well.
You don't respond to fires with the intentions of saving anyone unless you are equipped and trained to do so, and with both being done by your employer. Im glad we had two good trucks on the box who are good at FPMD fires to be the ones to rescue these two. Hopefully a miracle will occur.

Dispatching law enforcement personnel to building fires for the purpose of entering an IDLH atmosphere and conducting a search is playing Russian roulette with the LEO's lives. Just as common sense tells us not to dispatch firefighters to crimes in progress for the purpose of taking police action due to the obvious extreme danger to firefighters as they are not trained or equipped for such action, law enforcement personnel should not be placed in harm's way inside a burning building. I feel for the injured officers and their families. The officers acted bravely but should never have been placed in a situation such as this by their department to begin with. I am amazed that any law enforcement officer would agree with placing his brothers and sisters in situations that they are neither trained or equipped to handle. An appropriate way of honoring the two injured PO's would be for the police commissioner to immediately institute an SOP for response to and actions to be taken at fire scenes by police officers. The main theme should be police officer safety. God bless the two injured PO's and let this be the last time such a tragedy is permitted to occur.

I was involved 20+ years ago with an NYPD ESU officer who was killed in a fire response. It was a devastating event for many (my partner was his friend and the officer knew when he was to be intubated, he would not speak again. so he asked my partner to say goodbye to his family for him. The next day my partner quit EMS).
Since this is not the 1st time NYPD officers were critically injured while "operating" in a structure fire, I am surprised to find that the NYPD does not have a policy.
In my experience many police depts. including NYPD actually have a policy, its unwritten, but its very effective (sadly in a negative way). Police officers that attempt rescues are often given awards, sometimes promotions. This sends a very clear message to the members. This action is rewarded.
Many years ago we had a fire in an animal hospital & the FD rescued an attendant and a police officer (who had tried to make the rescue). A few months later their was 2 articles in the news paper (on the same page), 1) the officer receiving an award and detective badge, 2) the NYS Labor dept. was fining the PD for failing to follow the law in protecting the police officer.
My heart goes out to the officers and the families, but sadly this will happen again, because law enforcement in general believes they must respond to every call and do "something".

I know we have been down this road before and it just would not sit right if we don't bring it up again. When I respond to a call and I am advised by 60 Control to stage away till PD arrives I do just that. I can tell you that for every shooting, stabbing and assault call I respond to I ask if PD in en route. I also advise that we will stage away until clear to enter the scene. Do I want to help someone in distress? Yes I do. Do I want to be part of the action? Yes I do. Do I want to injure or kill one of my Brothers under my supervision and not return them home the same way they came to work. NO FRIGGIN WAY!!! Do we need to get on the radio to advise PD to stage away till our arrival? 2 Members of Public Safety are in critical condition for the simple fact that :
#1 They are not dressed in proper fire gear
#2 They are not wearing SCBA
#3 They most likely do not have elevator keys and or don't know how to control an elevator in a fire situation
#4 They are acting out of the scope of their job description
Does wearing a uniform transform us into something we are not? We tell civilians to vacate and do not return for valuables or anything else for that matter. When does the risk vs reward decision come into play? Do we really need to do another agency's job?
For everyone who gets his/her panties in a bunch over this post get over it! Hold a picture tight of your loved ones everyday and ask yourself one thing. Is this the smartest thing I am about to do?
I will say a prayer for the 2 NYPD members and I hope for a speedy and healthy recovery

I, along with 25 of my Brothers spent 2 days paying our respect to Lt Walsh and FF Kennedy. I have to tell you that there needs to be a class on proper etiquette taught to the younger generation of firefighters. I can't tell you how many members I saw carrying cases of beer on their shoulders walking the streets where our Brother was being celebrated. Guys just walking by the church with 24 on their shoulder. I don't really know if they were career or volley and don't really care who they are affiliated with but their actions disgusted me as well as other New Rochelle Firefighters. If you want to have a few beers between the service and the last drive past the sea of blue please go to a bar. If you want to tailgate and party in front of the civilians like morons please go to a football or baseball game. In front of the church and on peoples lawns is not the place!!!!

I know we have been down this road before and it just would not sit right if we don't bring it up again. When I respond to a call and I am advised by 60 Control to stage away till PD arrives I do just that. I can tell you that for every shooting, stabbing and assault call I respond to I ask if PD in en route. I also advise that we will stage away until clear to enter the scene. Do I want to help someone in distress? Yes I do. Do I want to be part of the action? Yes I do. Do I want to injure or kill one of my Brothers under my supervision and not return them home the same way they came to work. NO FRIGGIN WAY!!! Do we need to get on the radio to advise PD to stage away till our arrival? 2 Members of Public Safety are in critical condition for the simple fact that :
#1 They are not dressed in proper fire gear
#2 They are not wearing SCBA
#3 They most likely do not have elevator keys and or don't know how to control an elevator in a fire situation
#4 They are acting out of the scope of their job description
Does wearing a uniform transform us into something we are not? We tell civilians to vacate and do not return for valuables or anything else for that matter. When does the risk vs reward decision come into play? Do we really need to do another agency's job?
For everyone who gets his/her panties in a bunch over this post get over it! Hold a picture tight of your loved ones everyday and ask yourself one thing. Is this the smartest thing I am about to do?
I will say a prayer for the 2 NYPD members and I hope for a speedy and healthy recovery

I know we have been down this road before and it just would not sit right if we don't bring it up again. When I respond to a call and I am advised by 60 Control to stage away till PD arrives I do just that. I can tell you that for every shooting, stabbing and assault call I respond to I ask if PD in en route. I also advise that we will stage away until clear to enter the scene. Do I want to help someone in distress? Yes I do. Do I want to be part of the action? Yes I do. Do I want to injure or kill one of my Brothers under my supervision and not return them home the same way they came to work. NO FRIGGIN WAY!!! Do we need to get on the radio to advise PD to stage away till our arrival? 2 Members of Public Safety are in critical condition for the simple fact that :
#1 They are not dressed in proper fire gear
#2 They are not wearing SCBA
#3 They most likely do not have elevator keys and or don't know how to control an elevator in a fire situation
#4 They are acting out of the scope of their job description
Does wearing a uniform transform us into something we are not? We tell civilians to vacate and do not return for valuables or anything else for that matter. When does the risk vs reward decision come into play? Do we really need to do another agency's job?
For everyone who gets his/her panties in a bunch over this post get over it! Hold a picture tight of your loved ones everyday and ask yourself one thing. Is this the smartest thing I am about to do?
I will say a prayer for the 2 NYPD members and I hope for a speedy and healthy recovery

I know we have been down this road before and it just would not sit right if we don't bring it up again. When I respond to a call and I am advised by 60 Control to stage away till PD arrives I do just that. I can tell you that for every shooting, stabbing and assault call I respond to I ask if PD in en route. I also advise that we will stage away until clear to enter the scene. Do I want to help someone in distress? Yes I do. Do I want to be part of the action? Yes I do. Do I want to injure or kill one of my Brothers under my supervision and not return them home the same way they came to work. NO FRIGGIN WAY!!! Do we need to get on the radio to advise PD to stage away till our arrival? 2 Members of Public Safety are in critical condition for the simple fact that :
#1 They are not dressed in proper fire gear
#2 They are not wearing SCBA
#3 They most likely do not have elevator keys and or don't know how to control an elevator in a fire situation
#4 They are acting out of the scope of their job description
Does wearing a uniform transform us into something we are not? We tell civilians to vacate and do not return for valuables or anything else for that matter. When does the risk vs reward decision come into play? Do we really need to do another agency's job?
For everyone who gets his/her panties in a bunch over this post get over it! Hold a picture tight of your loved ones everyday and ask yourself one thing. Is this the smartest thing I am about to do?
I will say a prayer for the 2 NYPD members and I hope for a speedy and healthy recovery

I, along with 25 of my Brothers spent 2 days paying our respect to Lt Walsh and FF Kennedy. I have to tell you that there needs to be a class on proper etiquette taught to the younger generation of firefighters. I can't tell you how many members I saw carrying cases of beer on their shoulders walking the streets where our Brother was being celebrated. Guys just walking by the church with 24 on their shoulder. I don't really know if they were career or volley and don't really care who they are affiliated with but their actions disgusted me as well as other New Rochelle Firefighters. If you want to have a few beers between the service and the last drive past the sea of blue please go to a bar. If you want to tailgate and party in front of the civilians like morons please go to a football or baseball game. In front of the church and on peoples lawns is not the place!!!!

I, along with 25 of my Brothers spent 2 days paying our respect to Lt Walsh and FF Kennedy. I have to tell you that there needs to be a class on proper etiquette taught to the younger generation of firefighters. I can't tell you how many members I saw carrying cases of beer on their shoulders walking the streets where our Brother was being celebrated. Guys just walking by the church with 24 on their shoulder. I don't really know if they were career or volley and don't really care who they are affiliated with but their actions disgusted me as well as other New Rochelle Firefighters. If you want to have a few beers between the service and the last drive past the sea of blue please go to a bar. If you want to tailgate and party in front of the civilians like morons please go to a football or baseball game. In front of the church and on peoples lawns is not the place!!!!

I, along with 25 of my Brothers spent 2 days paying our respect to Lt Walsh and FF Kennedy. I have to tell you that there needs to be a class on proper etiquette taught to the younger generation of firefighters. I can't tell you how many members I saw carrying cases of beer on their shoulders walking the streets where our Brother was being celebrated. Guys just walking by the church with 24 on their shoulder. I don't really know if they were career or volley and don't really care who they are affiliated with but their actions disgusted me as well as other New Rochelle Firefighters. If you want to have a few beers between the service and the last drive past the sea of blue please go to a bar. If you want to tailgate and party in front of the civilians like morons please go to a football or baseball game. In front of the church and on peoples lawns is not the place!!!!

I, along with 25 of my Brothers spent 2 days paying our respect to Lt Walsh and FF Kennedy. I have to tell you that there needs to be a class on proper etiquette taught to the younger generation of firefighters. I can't tell you how many members I saw carrying cases of beer on their shoulders walking the streets where our Brother was being celebrated. Guys just walking by the church with 24 on their shoulder. I don't really know if they were career or volley and don't really care who they are affiliated with but their actions disgusted me as well as other New Rochelle Firefighters. If you want to have a few beers between the service and the last drive past the sea of blue please go to a bar. If you want to tailgate and party in front of the civilians like morons please go to a football or baseball game. In front of the church and on peoples lawns is not the place!!!!