FF1

When it is time to nominate and vote for officers in your volunteer department, how do you base your selections? Does your department have any qualifications for their officers and how does it vary from one position to another? I would like to hear from some other small departments like mine as well as larger ones.
I guess you could say I am getting frustrated with hearing the "Campaign Promises" from some of the "younger" members with barely any experience who want to be officers. Does anyone think that a 21 year old firefighter with only a year experience as a firefighter I who WANTS to be an officer and THINKS they can do the job can actually be an effective line officer such as Lieutenant or Captain? Does anyone feel that experience in the National Guard or other armed services should be all they need to be an effective line officer in the fire service?
How many of you are tired of the "Popularity Contests" and want to have some form of control over the nomination and election of volunteer fire officers? How many of you actually want experienced, trained, knowledgeable fire officers instead of the most popular person in the station??
Sorry, just frustrated, but I thought it would make an interesting conversation about officer qualifications, and the election process in volunteer agencies.
All input welcome, positive of negative, I dont even own QTIPS so dont worry about me taking it personally. Thanks.
Moose
PS- Anyone know how to add a Poll Question to this topic??? Im a past moderator and even I forgot!

Our department has recently put trainning requirements, as well as years served requirements into effect for our line officers.
Lt. is 3 years served with FF1 FF2 FF survival ICS 100 and 300 Intro to fire officer and Evoc
Capt. is 5 years served and must have served a term as Lt. with all Lt. trainning requirements as well as ISC 700 Truck Co. ops Fire Officer 1 and Fire behavior and arson awareness
All officers must have continuous 15% monthly attendence to run
We post a form in our house for all candidates. This is filled out by the cadidate and states amount of time served, all trainning, skills from personal life (jobs, military, other emergency service experiance, ect.) that you can bring to the table as an officer, and your vision and goals for the dept. as an officer.
We also have anoymous ballots for voting. It is a sheet with boxes next to the candidates names stating check x number of names. This seems to create a situation where the best person for the position gets elected.
With that said, volunteer elections will never be a perfect system.

Our department has recently put trainning requirements, as well as years served requirements into effect for our line officers.
Lt. is 3 years served with FF1 FF2 FF survival ICS 100 and 300 Intro to fire officer and Evoc
Capt. is 5 years served and must have served a term as Lt. with all Lt. trainning requirements as well as ISC 700 Truck Co. ops Fire Officer 1 and Fire behavior and arson awareness
All officers must have continuous 15% monthly attendence to run
We post a form in our house for all candidates. This is filled out by the cadidate and states amount of time served, all trainning, skills from personal life (jobs, military, other emergency service experiance, ect.) that you can bring to the table as an officer, and your vision and goals for the dept. as an officer.
We also have anoymous ballots for voting. It is a sheet with boxes next to the candidates names stating check x number of names. This seems to create a situation where the best person for the position gets elected.
With that said, volunteer elections will never be a perfect system.

Date:12/5/11
Time:08:58
Location: 105 Westchester Ave. C/S Main St.
Frequency:
Units Operating: PCFD E58, E60, E61, E62, E63, TL2, L31, R40, U65, 2392, 2393 - TMFD R6(FAST)
Units On Standby: PCFD E59, E64
Weather Conditions: 50* and overcast.
Description Of Incident: Several calls from PD for a possible fire at this location. First ariving PCFD units confirmed a working structure fire at this location and had Port Chester fill out the assignment. 2392 requested an additional engine to the scene (E62), TMFD FAST (R6), and Cause and Origin to the scene. Fire k/d at aproximately 09:30.
Reporters: FF1, JP59, PETEROSE313
Writer: FF1
http://www.lohud.com/article/20111205/NEWS02/111205003/Port-Chester-building-closed-after-fire-reveals-violations-authorities-say?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage

Date:12/5/11
Time:08:58
Location: 105 Westchester Ave. C/S Main St.
Frequency:
Units Operating: PCFD E58, E60, E61, E62, E63, TL2, L31, R40, U65, 2392, 2393 - TMFD R6(FAST)
Units On Standby: PCFD E59, E64
Weather Conditions: 50* and overcast.
Description Of Incident: Several calls from PD for a possible fire at this location. First ariving PCFD units confirmed a working structure fire at this location and had Port Chester fill out the assignment. 2392 requested an additional engine to the scene (E62), TMFD FAST (R6), and Cause and Origin to the scene. Fire k/d at aproximately 09:30.
Reporters: FF1, JP59, PETEROSE313
Writer: FF1
http://www.lohud.com/article/20111205/NEWS02/111205003/Port-Chester-building-closed-after-fire-reveals-violations-authorities-say?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage

I think that us volis that are in it for the right reasons know what we signed up for. Those guys that say they aren't compensated for what they do and the time that they sacrifice can resign and walk away anytime they want.

I think that us volis that are in it for the right reasons know what we signed up for. Those guys that say they aren't compensated for what they do and the time that they sacrifice can resign and walk away anytime they want.

Date: 8/30/2011
Time: 1545hrs
Location: 7 Winding Brook Drive (X Fenimore Rd)
Frequency: 46.26, Fire 15, EMS 15, 155.750 (PD), 155.280 (EMS),
Units Operating on Scene: [TMFD: 2231, 2232, 2233, E51, E36, L19], [VMFD: 2241, U9], [LFD: 2221, TL7, R1], [NRFD: E22 (FAST)], [LTMVAC: 66A1, 66B2], [HEMS: 61A4], [WCDES: Bat 15, C & O zone 2], TMPD, LPD
Units Operating on Standby at TMFD HQ: [HFD: 2161, E10], [VMFD: TL20]
Weather Conditions: Clear
Description Of Incident: Working fire in a 1 story wood frame. Fire was believed to be started by a generator that set curtains on fire. Homeowner called 911 when she saw flames. TMFD was then dispatched for a reported structure fre. 2231 was first on scene and reported heavy fire from front beadroom. Fire was contained to 2 front rooms and took aprox 15-20 minutes. Larchmont R1 was requested for Rehab and Cascade.
Reporters: firedude, FF1
Writer: firedude
Larchmont Patch Article

With the hurricane expecting to reach a Cat 1 or 2 when it makes land fall, coastal communities can expect anywhere from 0-6ft of storm surge along with significant rainfall. Make sure your pumps, saws and any other mechanical equipment you need are gased, oiled, and ready to run.
If your department is going to run flood water evacuations, or other types of water rescues without calling for a water rescue team, be sure to follow the following guidelines (and by no means take this as "Ok, we're good to go for flood water and swift water response").
- NO turnout gear in or around the water - turnout gear, especially pants and boots WILL DROWN YOU. It is impossible to kick and try and stay afloat wearing it.
- Wear your life jacket anytime you are within 6 feet of water.
- Do not wear neoprene rescue suits in flood waters, this includes ice rescue suits. Gas and other petroleum based products that are found floating in the flood waters will break down your suit eventually reaching your skin giving you a nasty burn. They also not water tight, leaving room for water contaminated with sewer waste, oils, and other nasty stuff to get inside the suit and fester up against your skin for the duration of you wearing it.
- Always walk in flood waters with a prod pole that reaches feet in front of you (not directly in front of where you are standing), much like sounding the floor when VESing a room. Manhole covers, sewer drain lids and other items will be forcefully removed by the water, leaving a hole in the road filled with downward flowing water. You will get sucked in, and you will drown; it has happened many times before and a fireman recently drowned in Colorado.
- Swift water constitutes any water moving faster then 1kts.
- Remember the adage of "REACH, THROW, ROW. GO." Any rescue where we can stay warm and dry, is the most successful type. If you are unsure, call for a swift water team, in fact call for the swift water team anyways, it is far better to have them in route, then realizing 20 minutes down the line you need them in rapidly rising waters.. They have the training and knowledge on how to preform this most difficult type of rescue. The GO portion, should only be performed by individuals who reach the Technical or Operational level of swift water. Any member can stand on the shore and throw a rope, or shove a pike pole to the individual. DO NOT tie your entry team off to a rope that is tied to a shore, if they slip, they will be pulled under water by force and drown.
Again, this is by no means a training module or any release to say you are good to go for swift or flood water rescue. Use this as an awareness tool.

Water puts out fires, period. The more water you use, the more damage there is and the more manpower, hose, and apparatus are needed.
One of the best major firefighting and salvage tools, and this is debatable to some, is CAFS. You can make an extremly quick knockdown, with MUCH less water. Fires that are blowing out the windows you can knock back from the inside. The CAFS foam reduces surface tension, and allows water to penetrate into the wood more efficiently. It's also extremly advantageous in areas with limited water supply. It reduces overhaul, and reduces the chances of a rekindle. As far as handlines, it makes them lighter, enabling an easier attack. With proper compressed air, the kink is not any more a factor then with water.
Many people in Hudson Valley departments hate CAFS, and a lot of the reason is the lack of training and poor specification of CAFS sytems. Some departments use Class A foam straight, but bypass the compressed air system because they don't know how to properly use it. I've seen many CAFS systems in a variety of manufacturers that makes it as simple as hitting a button.
And, I know at least here in Texas, if you meet certain CAFS criteria, it can lower your ISO rating by as much as 1.5 points.
Numerous studies have shown that CAFS is much more effective then water. The main part of the problem is tradition disease. Are we really doing anything that differently to put out fires then we did with bucket brigades 100 years ago?
Does NYS or any fire schools offer CAFS courses, such as this:
http://teexweb.tamu.edu/teex.cfm?pageid=training&area=TEEX&templateid=14&Division=ESTI&Course=ASP540

I am a person with a college diploma and am currently pursuing a fire career and I can honestly say that my college degree is only worth the paper that its printed on. Too many people stress college for everything now-a-days and dont realize that it may not be for everyone.
I got a degree because i felt that it was what was expected of me and honestly, I didn't learn much at all. All of my skills in the business world were taught to me at my current job and were learned on the fly. Very rarely, if ever, do I come across an obsticle in my job and revert back to my schooling.
With that said, I do feel that certain fields, such as Medical, Teaching, and Engineering are very technical and do rely heavily on schooling, but others, such as Business, Trades(electrical, construction, plumbing, ect) and Emergency Services are all about the kind of person you are by nature and on the job trainning and experiance.
Also, Common Sense, a vital skill that many people are lacking, cannot be taught at any college or trade school.
This is only one person's opinion, I apologize if I offended anyone.

There have been some really terrific posts here so far. I'm just picking this one as a jumping off point for my opinion. The FDNY's policy has been eroded over the years by lazy individuals whining about not obtaining the job on their own merit. Do you need a BA/BS to be a good firefighter? Nope, not at all. I know many terrific firemen, and know of many before my time who they still tell stories about, who did not have a degree. There are many tradesmen who have skills and knowledge that lends itself to our craft and they did not go the college route.
That being said, the overwhelming majority of my co-workers have a 4 year degree. I think we're a better department for it. To quote someone who posted before me, "it teaches you how to learn" and that's an invaluable quality. The experience of going to college teaches you how to think objectively and analytically. Some people may have that trait innately, but a degree serves as an affirmation of that ability. In addition, attending college shows effort and drive. You actually had to put in the time and effort to achieve that Associates or Bachelors degree and guess what.....it's a lot of work. Putting in that time and effort shows that you MIGHT at the very least have the drive to be a self starter and a motivated employee. Firemen are often in a position of having to think and make decisions independently and they're better off with a deeper well of experience to draw from.
With today's increases in the diversity of our workload, our interaction with the public has increased as well. We don't just sit behind closed doors until we head into a fire and then go home. We interact intimately with the public on EMS runs, fire prevention initiatives, class visits and fire inspections to name a few. In every example, education can do nothing but help.
Having a college degree doesn't make you a smart individual and they're are plenty of bright articulate people who don't have a formal higher education. However, with a civil service hiring process and it's simplicity, pre-requisites do nothing but help to distinguish a more qualified candidate. Even if obtaining some degree serves only to show that someone put in the extra effort.
The FDNY's current hiring standards are pathetic. 15 college credits (one silly semester) or 6 months of work experience. That's right, go flip burgers for 6 months, you're in! It's a tragedy to lower standards and to do it simply to increase the number of minority members is embarrassing to every member of a minority group who puts in the effort and it's a serious dis-service to the people of New York who deserve the best. Historically, the acceptance rate to the FDNY is between 8 and 10%. That's pretty low. If you have tens of thousands of people testing for, at most, a couple of thousand positions......you should be able to demand very high standards. They're obviously not having any trouble filling positions. The only people who I've heard complain about standards are those who haven't put in the time, effort, care or thought to take the many free assistance tools available to them.

I am a person with a college diploma and am currently pursuing a fire career and I can honestly say that my college degree is only worth the paper that its printed on. Too many people stress college for everything now-a-days and dont realize that it may not be for everyone.
I got a degree because i felt that it was what was expected of me and honestly, I didn't learn much at all. All of my skills in the business world were taught to me at my current job and were learned on the fly. Very rarely, if ever, do I come across an obsticle in my job and revert back to my schooling.
With that said, I do feel that certain fields, such as Medical, Teaching, and Engineering are very technical and do rely heavily on schooling, but others, such as Business, Trades(electrical, construction, plumbing, ect) and Emergency Services are all about the kind of person you are by nature and on the job trainning and experiance.
Also, Common Sense, a vital skill that many people are lacking, cannot be taught at any college or trade school.
This is only one person's opinion, I apologize if I offended anyone.

I am a person with a college diploma and am currently pursuing a fire career and I can honestly say that my college degree is only worth the paper that its printed on. Too many people stress college for everything now-a-days and dont realize that it may not be for everyone.
I got a degree because i felt that it was what was expected of me and honestly, I didn't learn much at all. All of my skills in the business world were taught to me at my current job and were learned on the fly. Very rarely, if ever, do I come across an obsticle in my job and revert back to my schooling.
With that said, I do feel that certain fields, such as Medical, Teaching, and Engineering are very technical and do rely heavily on schooling, but others, such as Business, Trades(electrical, construction, plumbing, ect) and Emergency Services are all about the kind of person you are by nature and on the job trainning and experiance.
Also, Common Sense, a vital skill that many people are lacking, cannot be taught at any college or trade school.
This is only one person's opinion, I apologize if I offended anyone.

Thats the exact point I was trying to make.

The point that I was trying to make is that college isn't everything. I am a believer that you create your own luck and any person and accomplish anything they want, as long as they keep their eye on the prize and strve toward that goal every day.
I'm not suggesting these men should life coaches for anyone. I am backing up my statment with examples. They were simply examples of men without college who succeeded.
I'm sorry. There is no need for arrogence.

I see your point, but I also think that it depends on the career path you choose. In order to be a doctor, an education is a must, but in order to be a sucessful businessman or entrepreneur, not so much. I have found that real world experiance is critical. You can't teach drive and determination.
Bill Gates of Microsoft, Steve Jobs of Apple and Richard Branssen of Virgin Records were all college dropouts.

Classy reply. My friends who partied the four years I dug ditches and did inter-facility transports are in $100,000 debt and using their History and Communications degrees to work at the mall and wait tables while I'm making a good living, establishing a retirement and looking at houses. Nothing is a definite and you get out of life what you put in to it.

In an age where having a Bachelor's degree is becoming as common as a high school diploma, and the economic climate giving a greater pool to choose from, should a college degree, at least an Associate's be required?<BR><BR>On the flip side, college isn't for everyone. We're losing a lot of skilled blue collar workers because of colleges.

I am a person with a college diploma and am currently pursuing a fire career and I can honestly say that my college degree is only worth the paper that its printed on. Too many people stress college for everything now-a-days and dont realize that it may not be for everyone.
I got a degree because i felt that it was what was expected of me and honestly, I didn't learn much at all. All of my skills in the business world were taught to me at my current job and were learned on the fly. Very rarely, if ever, do I come across an obsticle in my job and revert back to my schooling.
With that said, I do feel that certain fields, such as Medical, Teaching, and Engineering are very technical and do rely heavily on schooling, but others, such as Business, Trades(electrical, construction, plumbing, ect) and Emergency Services are all about the kind of person you are by nature and on the job trainning and experiance.
Also, Common Sense, a vital skill that many people are lacking, cannot be taught at any college or trade school.
This is only one person's opinion, I apologize if I offended anyone.

I am a person with a college diploma and am currently pursuing a fire career and I can honestly say that my college degree is only worth the paper that its printed on. Too many people stress college for everything now-a-days and dont realize that it may not be for everyone.
I got a degree because i felt that it was what was expected of me and honestly, I didn't learn much at all. All of my skills in the business world were taught to me at my current job and were learned on the fly. Very rarely, if ever, do I come across an obsticle in my job and revert back to my schooling.
With that said, I do feel that certain fields, such as Medical, Teaching, and Engineering are very technical and do rely heavily on schooling, but others, such as Business, Trades(electrical, construction, plumbing, ect) and Emergency Services are all about the kind of person you are by nature and on the job trainning and experiance.
Also, Common Sense, a vital skill that many people are lacking, cannot be taught at any college or trade school.
This is only one person's opinion, I apologize if I offended anyone.

I am a person with a college diploma and am currently pursuing a fire career and I can honestly say that my college degree is only worth the paper that its printed on. Too many people stress college for everything now-a-days and dont realize that it may not be for everyone.
I got a degree because i felt that it was what was expected of me and honestly, I didn't learn much at all. All of my skills in the business world were taught to me at my current job and were learned on the fly. Very rarely, if ever, do I come across an obsticle in my job and revert back to my schooling.
With that said, I do feel that certain fields, such as Medical, Teaching, and Engineering are very technical and do rely heavily on schooling, but others, such as Business, Trades(electrical, construction, plumbing, ect) and Emergency Services are all about the kind of person you are by nature and on the job trainning and experiance.
Also, Common Sense, a vital skill that many people are lacking, cannot be taught at any college or trade school.
This is only one person's opinion, I apologize if I offended anyone.

I am a person with a college diploma and am currently pursuing a fire career and I can honestly say that my college degree is only worth the paper that its printed on. Too many people stress college for everything now-a-days and dont realize that it may not be for everyone.
I got a degree because i felt that it was what was expected of me and honestly, I didn't learn much at all. All of my skills in the business world were taught to me at my current job and were learned on the fly. Very rarely, if ever, do I come across an obsticle in my job and revert back to my schooling.
With that said, I do feel that certain fields, such as Medical, Teaching, and Engineering are very technical and do rely heavily on schooling, but others, such as Business, Trades(electrical, construction, plumbing, ect) and Emergency Services are all about the kind of person you are by nature and on the job trainning and experiance.
Also, Common Sense, a vital skill that many people are lacking, cannot be taught at any college or trade school.
This is only one person's opinion, I apologize if I offended anyone.

Date: 7/12/11
Time: 0906
Location: 237 Mamaroneck Ave
Frequency: 46.26 dispatch, Fire 17, EMS 15,
Units Operating:
MVFD - Full department
TMFD - FAST ladder 19
PCFD -1 engine and 1 ladder relocate
Harrison Ambulance
Batt 15
C/O Zone 3
PCRRBEMS - 77A1, 77A6
MEMS - 68A1
LVAC - 66A1
TMAD - 49M1, 49-11 (medical command)
Scarsdale - 79A1
Weather Conditions: Hot, Humid
Description Of Incident:
Cannot hear on scene units, only dispatch confirming working fire and that units stepping on each other
0922 - 3 story, 3 l/s/o/ primaries underway, ladder 19 making the roof
0948 - Fire under control, overhauling ATT
Reports from the journal news that 4 people were rescued by FD. - http://www.lohud.com...|text|Frontpage
video of first arriving engine -
PM with additional
Reporters: Firedude (with most of the info)
Writer:JohnnyOV

Date:5/12/11
Time:06:39
Location: Boston Post Rd. between Chatsworth Ave and Monroe Ave.
Frequency: Fire Ops 15, Fireground 7
Units Operating: Engine 35, Engine 33, Tower Ladder 7, Larchmont/Town of Mamaroneck VAC, Larchmont PD, Town of Mamaroneck PD
Weather Conditions: 60* and sunny
Description Of Incident:Reported as a car flipped over on Boston Post Road. SUV was T-Boned and flipped on to its roof. Driver (only passenger in the vehicle) was trapped inside the vehicle and was quickly extricated without the use of extrication tools. Engine 33 was put back in service after the victim was extricated, while Engine 35 and Tower Ladder 7 remained on scene to address fluid on the roadway and to secure the scene until the vehicle was towed.
Reporters: FF1
Writer: FF1