CFI609D

I must agree with Mr. Polet on one point. I, too dislike the term "First Responder." I prefer to be called a Firefighter. Many people draw their picture of our job just like Mr. Polet. To them, we spend our days sitting around the kitchen table playing cards or checkers and expecting a big pension for doing so. As a college professor, he should know that you can't just make a statement like that without research to see if it's true. I suggest he, using the Scientific Method, do a survey of firehouses nationally to see how many fire stations even have a checkerboard or a deck of cards in their quarters.
He is also correct when he says that people should learn to save themselves and their families without the aid of firefighters. Every family should have an escape plan to safely get out of their home without the aid of firefighters. It should also have two ways out and a meeting place outside. The man is a genius! Why didn't we think of that?
He also says we should be preventing fires or trying to end destructive fires altogether. Right again, Mr. Polet, we should be pushing for laws that require automatic sprinklers, even in one family homes and college dorms. Those are two places where the fire death rate is high.
As for the "America's heroes" image? I've only made three rescues in my 34 years on the job. That's not very productive of me, so I never thought of myself as a hero. I am sure the average college professor is more worthy of the title because in the same 34 years he will have passed his "knowledge" on to hundreds of young men and women.
I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture. Just call me "Firefighter," I'll be happy with that because I can meet up with any Firefighter in the World and I'll know what he does for a living. Mr. Polet can have the title "First Responder" if he likes, but he'll have to start showing up at emergencies in under 5 minutes to keep the title because that's when we get there, rain or shine, day or night, Christmas included. And even if we don't like you, we'll get on our bellies, go into the fire, and pull your sorry ass out.

Loosing? that was a long time ago, Then again what is the public expectation in a city that re-elects a mayor with a known criminal/drug history

No Syd, THANK YOU and the EFD for yet another outstanding program!

That's because we have a generation brought up to believe "everything is about ME". And this attitude is reinforced constantly in music, movies and TV ..perfect example, shows like Survivor, Big Brother ect who's core message is screw everyone else...lie, cheat, steal, backstab and otherwise do whatever you have to do to get "mines". Hard to have Brotherhood when "normal" thinking means thinking only of yourself and how you're going to get what you "deserve".

I noticed in the flier that you have to be in "excellent" physical condition but only of "good" moral character. I guess the city doesn't worry that Firefighters go into people's houses when they are not home.
And, Cap, you must be old school if you noticed all the typos. Back in your day (and mine) the job descriptions always said "Performs light clerical duties." That piece of the job description is gone, so candy dates don't have to spel gud no more.
I better stop writing now or I'll get in trouble

I agree with you in that every department should make firefighting their priority, but I don't think parades are why many of them don't, parades are but a symptom. When you come right down to it, any department that places attending parades over firefighting is suffering a far larger problem within their organization so whether or not they attend them won't make any difference on the fireground.

Ok Seth, I hope you are never in a life and death moment as a paramedic, and you ask for some med, a line setup ANYTHING, and your emt partner doesn't speak or communicate English, (but had an interpreter help him take his class), that you come away with the same liberal thinking, as the family looks on and the patient is dying.
Let anybody become anything they want in America, but this is called EMERGENCY service for a reason. Learn the language FIRST, then become chief of the dept if that's what you want to do. And you are right in one respect, communication is one of if not the leading cause's of problems when Line of Duty deaths occur. I don't think we are going to help that by putting more people on the fire ground that need to have an scba and interpreter.

They are a complete waste of money. A true measure of your worth is not some BS Chinese junk trophy 5 feet tall, its hearing from neighboring FD's that you get $hit done, wether you have 5 guys or 15 at a fire. I haven't been to a parade in probably 15 years, sure they are fun, but if your tax payers knew that you spent 3k between the band, the food and the diesel and gas to get there, you think they would be happy? Sure kids like them, but I bet your neighbor would like those 10-20 people spending a nice sat afternoon at the emergency they called in instead. And I hardly think that the 10 kegs of beer is hurting anyone financially at these events, not when they budget in the tens of thousands to host them.

First I'd like to take issue with the statement that parades are an integral part of team building or public visibility. Company drills and training and learning to work with others while taking classes at the training center are how you foster a team mentality, not strutting down the street in every town that decides to have a parade. As far as visibility goes, I feel like parades draw the wrong types of people trying to be visible, the guy you haven't seen at a call in six months but who shows up for the spread and to make himself "visible". If you really want positive public image for your department participate in a fundraiser for a good cause, put a team together to do a walk or run for a cause, participate in something greater than the department showing what you do to give back. A question I'd ask about the guys involved in this debacle, are they good responders, do they pull their weight where it's really important, on the fire scene? On the flip side, how many of the members who actually marched aren't around regularly to attend drills and calls? The chief in question sounds like a real prima Donna to me, immature, bombastic, and if he thinks that his offensive racist language was acceptable because the members he was berating weren't minorities, then he's just flat out incompetent.

I know the question was specifically what ONE thing rookies should know. Unfortunately it is not that simple. When I teach I try to emphasize they need to learn to follow the Marine Corps philosophy of "adapt, improvise, and overcome." In addition, whenever I teach a probie class, I hand out something I got from Lt. Tim Klett of FDNY many year ago he refers to as "The Four Ups" which all firefighters, career or volunteer, should take to heart and live by.
“Listen Up”
“When you are first starting in the fire service, there is a lot going on. You are entering a culture that is unlike any other one on this planet. You will hear stories, tales and just plain B.S. But listen carefully. That is our past talking. All of the information has value….Listen to the older, over-the-hill, past-their-prime, malcontents, for the little ‘pearls of wisdom’ that aren’t in any textbooks. A lot of important information that will help keep you safe and alive on the fire ground is not written down. The fire service is very young. We are losing our experience. The firefighters that went to fires during the war years are slowly retiring. Talk to them before they leave. We are losing our history, we are losing our past. Don’t let this happen.”
“Clean Up”
“The firehouse is your second home. Treat it as such. And if you are the junior firefighter working, you are the lowest on the totem pole. You get the dirty work….This is based on the fact that all the junior people before you did it, or should have done it. You do it until the next probie (comes along). It is part of belonging, it is doing what you should be doing. And it is always pretty funny, because in my experience, the ones that piss and moan about doing the chores usually end up doing them by themselves for a long time. But the ones that just do it…usually find that they have help. They become accepted into the “family” a little quicker.”
“Step Up”
“Be involved in your company and in your department. Attend company functions, help run them if possible….Become a productive member of your Company. Above all, go to funerals and services, especially the line of duty ones. Pay your respects. Become a part of the fire service by deed and not by mouth.”
“Shut Up”
“Spend more time listening and doing than talking about it. Show by your actions and your deeds what type of firefighter and member of this great Brotherhood you are.”

Would anyone believe me is I said there are literal cry babies in the fire service and I don't mean complainers

I know the question was specifically what ONE thing rookies should know. Unfortunately it is not that simple. When I teach I try to emphasize they need to learn to follow the Marine Corps philosophy of "adapt, improvise, and overcome." In addition, whenever I teach a probie class, I hand out something I got from Lt. Tim Klett of FDNY many year ago he refers to as "The Four Ups" which all firefighters, career or volunteer, should take to heart and live by.
“Listen Up”
“When you are first starting in the fire service, there is a lot going on. You are entering a culture that is unlike any other one on this planet. You will hear stories, tales and just plain B.S. But listen carefully. That is our past talking. All of the information has value….Listen to the older, over-the-hill, past-their-prime, malcontents, for the little ‘pearls of wisdom’ that aren’t in any textbooks. A lot of important information that will help keep you safe and alive on the fire ground is not written down. The fire service is very young. We are losing our experience. The firefighters that went to fires during the war years are slowly retiring. Talk to them before they leave. We are losing our history, we are losing our past. Don’t let this happen.”
“Clean Up”
“The firehouse is your second home. Treat it as such. And if you are the junior firefighter working, you are the lowest on the totem pole. You get the dirty work….This is based on the fact that all the junior people before you did it, or should have done it. You do it until the next probie (comes along). It is part of belonging, it is doing what you should be doing. And it is always pretty funny, because in my experience, the ones that piss and moan about doing the chores usually end up doing them by themselves for a long time. But the ones that just do it…usually find that they have help. They become accepted into the “family” a little quicker.”
“Step Up”
“Be involved in your company and in your department. Attend company functions, help run them if possible….Become a productive member of your Company. Above all, go to funerals and services, especially the line of duty ones. Pay your respects. Become a part of the fire service by deed and not by mouth.”
“Shut Up”
“Spend more time listening and doing than talking about it. Show by your actions and your deeds what type of firefighter and member of this great Brotherhood you are.”

I know the question was specifically what ONE thing rookies should know. Unfortunately it is not that simple. When I teach I try to emphasize they need to learn to follow the Marine Corps philosophy of "adapt, improvise, and overcome." In addition, whenever I teach a probie class, I hand out something I got from Lt. Tim Klett of FDNY many year ago he refers to as "The Four Ups" which all firefighters, career or volunteer, should take to heart and live by.
“Listen Up”
“When you are first starting in the fire service, there is a lot going on. You are entering a culture that is unlike any other one on this planet. You will hear stories, tales and just plain B.S. But listen carefully. That is our past talking. All of the information has value….Listen to the older, over-the-hill, past-their-prime, malcontents, for the little ‘pearls of wisdom’ that aren’t in any textbooks. A lot of important information that will help keep you safe and alive on the fire ground is not written down. The fire service is very young. We are losing our experience. The firefighters that went to fires during the war years are slowly retiring. Talk to them before they leave. We are losing our history, we are losing our past. Don’t let this happen.”
“Clean Up”
“The firehouse is your second home. Treat it as such. And if you are the junior firefighter working, you are the lowest on the totem pole. You get the dirty work….This is based on the fact that all the junior people before you did it, or should have done it. You do it until the next probie (comes along). It is part of belonging, it is doing what you should be doing. And it is always pretty funny, because in my experience, the ones that piss and moan about doing the chores usually end up doing them by themselves for a long time. But the ones that just do it…usually find that they have help. They become accepted into the “family” a little quicker.”
“Step Up”
“Be involved in your company and in your department. Attend company functions, help run them if possible….Become a productive member of your Company. Above all, go to funerals and services, especially the line of duty ones. Pay your respects. Become a part of the fire service by deed and not by mouth.”
“Shut Up”
“Spend more time listening and doing than talking about it. Show by your actions and your deeds what type of firefighter and member of this great Brotherhood you are.”

I know the question was specifically what ONE thing rookies should know. Unfortunately it is not that simple. When I teach I try to emphasize they need to learn to follow the Marine Corps philosophy of "adapt, improvise, and overcome." In addition, whenever I teach a probie class, I hand out something I got from Lt. Tim Klett of FDNY many year ago he refers to as "The Four Ups" which all firefighters, career or volunteer, should take to heart and live by.
“Listen Up”
“When you are first starting in the fire service, there is a lot going on. You are entering a culture that is unlike any other one on this planet. You will hear stories, tales and just plain B.S. But listen carefully. That is our past talking. All of the information has value….Listen to the older, over-the-hill, past-their-prime, malcontents, for the little ‘pearls of wisdom’ that aren’t in any textbooks. A lot of important information that will help keep you safe and alive on the fire ground is not written down. The fire service is very young. We are losing our experience. The firefighters that went to fires during the war years are slowly retiring. Talk to them before they leave. We are losing our history, we are losing our past. Don’t let this happen.”
“Clean Up”
“The firehouse is your second home. Treat it as such. And if you are the junior firefighter working, you are the lowest on the totem pole. You get the dirty work….This is based on the fact that all the junior people before you did it, or should have done it. You do it until the next probie (comes along). It is part of belonging, it is doing what you should be doing. And it is always pretty funny, because in my experience, the ones that piss and moan about doing the chores usually end up doing them by themselves for a long time. But the ones that just do it…usually find that they have help. They become accepted into the “family” a little quicker.”
“Step Up”
“Be involved in your company and in your department. Attend company functions, help run them if possible….Become a productive member of your Company. Above all, go to funerals and services, especially the line of duty ones. Pay your respects. Become a part of the fire service by deed and not by mouth.”
“Shut Up”
“Spend more time listening and doing than talking about it. Show by your actions and your deeds what type of firefighter and member of this great Brotherhood you are.”

I know the question was specifically what ONE thing rookies should know. Unfortunately it is not that simple. When I teach I try to emphasize they need to learn to follow the Marine Corps philosophy of "adapt, improvise, and overcome." In addition, whenever I teach a probie class, I hand out something I got from Lt. Tim Klett of FDNY many year ago he refers to as "The Four Ups" which all firefighters, career or volunteer, should take to heart and live by.
“Listen Up”
“When you are first starting in the fire service, there is a lot going on. You are entering a culture that is unlike any other one on this planet. You will hear stories, tales and just plain B.S. But listen carefully. That is our past talking. All of the information has value….Listen to the older, over-the-hill, past-their-prime, malcontents, for the little ‘pearls of wisdom’ that aren’t in any textbooks. A lot of important information that will help keep you safe and alive on the fire ground is not written down. The fire service is very young. We are losing our experience. The firefighters that went to fires during the war years are slowly retiring. Talk to them before they leave. We are losing our history, we are losing our past. Don’t let this happen.”
“Clean Up”
“The firehouse is your second home. Treat it as such. And if you are the junior firefighter working, you are the lowest on the totem pole. You get the dirty work….This is based on the fact that all the junior people before you did it, or should have done it. You do it until the next probie (comes along). It is part of belonging, it is doing what you should be doing. And it is always pretty funny, because in my experience, the ones that piss and moan about doing the chores usually end up doing them by themselves for a long time. But the ones that just do it…usually find that they have help. They become accepted into the “family” a little quicker.”
“Step Up”
“Be involved in your company and in your department. Attend company functions, help run them if possible….Become a productive member of your Company. Above all, go to funerals and services, especially the line of duty ones. Pay your respects. Become a part of the fire service by deed and not by mouth.”
“Shut Up”
“Spend more time listening and doing than talking about it. Show by your actions and your deeds what type of firefighter and member of this great Brotherhood you are.”

I would rather not answer any questions about myself on this thread. As gpeifer mentioned it was originally about a fantastic job our members did on a very busy and frigid night, surely saving multiple lives and mitigating property damage, and I would hope it might focus on its original intent. As far as 313- apparatus is not my division and I would rather not get into that, and as far as regionalization / consolidation- I am for it under the right circumstances but again, this is not the correct thread to discuss that. I will keep an eye on this site over the next week or so, and if a thread pops up with regionalization / consolidation as the topic I will consider chiming in. Same thing for the memorabilia / museum question- this is not the appropriate thread to discuss that.
I would like to keep the attention on the great work that our members did on the night in question, as well as during numerous other working fires so far this winter (most of which were not reported on in the IA section here) . Notably, the skilled and dedicated firefighting operations that took place on the night of the 2 jobs that this thread initially focused on was done by a force comprised of 1 in 6 firefighters with only a week or so out of the academy, and another 30+ with less than a year on the job, and many of the bosses very new in their current rank, I was not at all involved with the operations on that night, but I am very proud of the excellent work that was done by our members and the attention should be on them in this thread.

"We have to pass the bill to know what's in it" - N. Pelosi
Well now we know. Who could have possible thought there could be something negative buried in approximately 2409 pages (the house and senate versions are slightly different).

In NYS they are. And that's been reconfirmed by the courts a number of times

I know the question was specifically what ONE thing rookies should know. Unfortunately it is not that simple. When I teach I try to emphasize they need to learn to follow the Marine Corps philosophy of "adapt, improvise, and overcome." In addition, whenever I teach a probie class, I hand out something I got from Lt. Tim Klett of FDNY many year ago he refers to as "The Four Ups" which all firefighters, career or volunteer, should take to heart and live by.
“Listen Up”
“When you are first starting in the fire service, there is a lot going on. You are entering a culture that is unlike any other one on this planet. You will hear stories, tales and just plain B.S. But listen carefully. That is our past talking. All of the information has value….Listen to the older, over-the-hill, past-their-prime, malcontents, for the little ‘pearls of wisdom’ that aren’t in any textbooks. A lot of important information that will help keep you safe and alive on the fire ground is not written down. The fire service is very young. We are losing our experience. The firefighters that went to fires during the war years are slowly retiring. Talk to them before they leave. We are losing our history, we are losing our past. Don’t let this happen.”
“Clean Up”
“The firehouse is your second home. Treat it as such. And if you are the junior firefighter working, you are the lowest on the totem pole. You get the dirty work….This is based on the fact that all the junior people before you did it, or should have done it. You do it until the next probie (comes along). It is part of belonging, it is doing what you should be doing. And it is always pretty funny, because in my experience, the ones that piss and moan about doing the chores usually end up doing them by themselves for a long time. But the ones that just do it…usually find that they have help. They become accepted into the “family” a little quicker.”
“Step Up”
“Be involved in your company and in your department. Attend company functions, help run them if possible….Become a productive member of your Company. Above all, go to funerals and services, especially the line of duty ones. Pay your respects. Become a part of the fire service by deed and not by mouth.”
“Shut Up”
“Spend more time listening and doing than talking about it. Show by your actions and your deeds what type of firefighter and member of this great Brotherhood you are.”

E204 is its Westchester County designation. FDMV has WCDES designations for engines 201 through 207, and ladders 61-64.

1) The US Census 2010 (with 2012 supplemental). The City of Mt Vernon Website claims 70,000+ in multiple locations
2) You started off by adding rigs with fewer ff's than I said the standard calls for then using that to try to justify your position. If the flexibility of more rigs is so important, then why not 1 man rigs? MVFD could have 20 on the street.
Wow...we really do all those things? I never would have considered that we do anything other than fire Thanks for pointing that out.
NIOSH only measured the results that experienced fire suppression personnel did, maybe you should try to understand what they did, and why they did it was because the IAFF wanted to proved that staffing matters and that too many depts. do not have enough personnel per rig.
While 3 man companies often do a spectacular job, their is no way they can do better than a comparable trained 4 man crew. Often the 3 man crew is really a 1 man crew, as the driver is at the pump and the officer should be an officer and if he is pulling hose, he is not doing his job.
3) Your right all those chiefs in major depts. around the world who have studied this don't know what you do because they are no longer "in the trenches". FDNY should go to twice as many 3 man companies, because the guys in the trenches know it all. All over Great Britain & Germany Engines run with minimum of 6 and they have much better construction and fire prevention than we do. Paris runs 8 man engines..........but what do they know....
Studies performed by Dallas, Providence, NYC, and others must all be wrong because you've been there and done that.
Sorry this tapped you out. Most of the world works this way, but here in the north east we can see past the walls that surround every square mile.

I know the question was specifically what ONE thing rookies should know. Unfortunately it is not that simple. When I teach I try to emphasize they need to learn to follow the Marine Corps philosophy of "adapt, improvise, and overcome." In addition, whenever I teach a probie class, I hand out something I got from Lt. Tim Klett of FDNY many year ago he refers to as "The Four Ups" which all firefighters, career or volunteer, should take to heart and live by.
“Listen Up”
“When you are first starting in the fire service, there is a lot going on. You are entering a culture that is unlike any other one on this planet. You will hear stories, tales and just plain B.S. But listen carefully. That is our past talking. All of the information has value….Listen to the older, over-the-hill, past-their-prime, malcontents, for the little ‘pearls of wisdom’ that aren’t in any textbooks. A lot of important information that will help keep you safe and alive on the fire ground is not written down. The fire service is very young. We are losing our experience. The firefighters that went to fires during the war years are slowly retiring. Talk to them before they leave. We are losing our history, we are losing our past. Don’t let this happen.”
“Clean Up”
“The firehouse is your second home. Treat it as such. And if you are the junior firefighter working, you are the lowest on the totem pole. You get the dirty work….This is based on the fact that all the junior people before you did it, or should have done it. You do it until the next probie (comes along). It is part of belonging, it is doing what you should be doing. And it is always pretty funny, because in my experience, the ones that piss and moan about doing the chores usually end up doing them by themselves for a long time. But the ones that just do it…usually find that they have help. They become accepted into the “family” a little quicker.”
“Step Up”
“Be involved in your company and in your department. Attend company functions, help run them if possible….Become a productive member of your Company. Above all, go to funerals and services, especially the line of duty ones. Pay your respects. Become a part of the fire service by deed and not by mouth.”
“Shut Up”
“Spend more time listening and doing than talking about it. Show by your actions and your deeds what type of firefighter and member of this great Brotherhood you are.”

Not an opinion - just stating a fact! - Theoretically a "fire district" could be created in Westchester that does include 100% of the county - that could circumvent "Home Rule"

can you say "Home Rule"