ex-commish

This is so sad!!! Our family has a house down there and this is heartbreaking Thank you to all the NJ FDs / EMS / PD for all of your efforts.

Be safe out there brothers

In a comparison of Brotherhood today vs the 70s or 80s here's a story. Maybe this gives an idea of how things have changed.
Last year or so I was invited to visit a firehouse, which actually is one of the busiest in Connecticut. My brother was a career firefighter there during the late 70s and into the 80s. In the kitchen was this very large table. Everybody ate there. Once in awhile he would invite me down to visit. The jokes, laughter, and entertainment was priceless. Everybody joined in except maybe the "probie" who was told to keep his mouth shut until he proves himself.
When I went down to that same firehouse, the guy that invited me showed me the kitchen where I used to join the members. Then he just left me. It was quite different from what I remembered back in those days. Nobody was talking. Either they were on their cell phones texting or talking, or watching a TV. Also, I noticed gone was that big kitchen table that everybody used to share the meal on. Now every individual was sitting by themselves with their own little table in front of them. The only guy that talked to me was the Captain who I had known for years and was good friends with his brother.
I walked in as a retired firefighter from another city in Connecticut. Yeah, I'm an old guy now. No more fires for me and I remember when we didn't go to medical calls. What little hair I have left is all white now and my belly isn't as tight as it should be. I walk a little slower too, but you would think I was some bum off the street. If it wasn't for thaty captain that I knew, I would have left after ten minutes because I felt very uncorfortable there. Nobody even asked about my brother who spent maybe 15 years there and retired as a B/C. (and he did have a good reputation).
A little different story to compare. About two years ago the New London, Ct Fire Dept transported me to the hospital in New London for a medical condition. During the two weeks I was there, guys from the job, who I didn't even know stopped by. Everyday, somebody was there. They would bring me coffees etc. They were concerned for my car where I had to leave it and "they" brought it to the firehouse parking lot where it was much safer. Those guys from New London F.D. treated me great. In this case, I saw that Brotherhood is Alive and Well. And every once in awhile, they invite me to the firehouse, as a Retired Brother, and they are not concerned that maybe my belly isn't as tight as it used to be.
And I have to say, my Brothers always welcome me to the firehouse where I spent a few years on the job there. Most I of them I never worked with, but they treat me good.
I was a volunteer firefighter in a combo dept back in the early 70s. We all got along great, volunteer and paid. When I moved to another part of Connecticut in those 70s, I entered a War Zone. People I didn't even know hated me for the job I did. It still really hasn't changed. Brotherhood doesn't exist. Same today as it was then.
My brother who retired from that very busy dept I mentioned earlier as a Battalion Chief, wanted to join the local volunteer dept when he moved up to this area. He lived about a block away from the firehouse, was able to go to calls 24/7, and always had a mop in his hand to clean up after any event. I thought that this small dept had won the lottery when they got him. He had been a driver and officer on the exact same type of Ladder truck during his career that they had. "His orders were; "Don't you touch that Ladder Truck".
One time at a mutual aid fire they couldn't get the ladder down. Guess who figured out what was wrong and was able to get it down ? On another night that Ladder truck was requested to respond mutual aid to another fire. He was at the firehouse with three other younger members who couldn't operate that truck. The chief had been out plowing snow and told him face to face, "Don't you touch that ladder truck". As a result, that ladder truck NEVER responded to that fire. He was also never allowed to drive any of the other trucks. He stuck it out for about two years. I would have lasted two weeks, maybe !
There are many more stories both good and bad. The term Brotherhood should not even be questioned. It should just be there. When you work together and you survive together, Brotherhood takes on a thing of its own. You work together through good and bad times. If you talk about each other, it was in a joking manner. Today because of society, that's not always possible. In my opinion as a result instead of uniting it has created dividing.
For the younger people out there whether career or volunteer, it may be hard to understand how different and how great it once was. I can only say, just take my word for it.

Brotherhood Test:
Here's how you test a firehouse to see if they are Brothers or not.
Send your daughter to a firehouse at 0200 with a flat tire and explaining that her father is a firefighter and he is working tonight.
If they point to a 24hr towing service down the street or give her the number for AAA, they are not Brothers.
If they tell her to pull around back, change the flat, change the oil, rotate the tires, wash the windshield, and give her a cup of coffee and a piece of cake. Then they are Brothers.

You know this is quite simple when you come right down to it. Brotherhood is really just remembering to follow a few core tenets:
Treat others as you want to be treated.
Remember we're here to serve so put others above yourself
The wants and needs of the many outweigh the wants and needs of the few...or the one.
Everyone has a place to serve and all service is valuable and important even if only in small amounts.
I am who and what I am in the fire service because of those who came before me and those who serve with me.
WE are the fire service, I am only one very small part of it.

Brotherhood can take on a number of different aspects. Yes without doubt firefighters talking and doing firefighting activities is surely a big part of it, but how about a few others like:
When a member or spouse/ family member of a member is sick long term or gets deployed their fellow members help them out with things like,
*shopping
*yard work
*house cleaning
*babysitting or...
*How about actually taking 15 minutes out of our busy schedules to visit the guy/gal in the hospital
*or if need be a little financial support for the members family to help get them through and...
maybe even something as simple as an ear if it's needed
Here's a good one too - Treating the members you don't like as well as the ones you do...a little respect goes a long way
I think you get the idea

Great topic Brian, I often heard the talk of the 'Good Old Days" when I was at the firehouse as a pup with my dad, watching, listening and seeing how the guys went about carrying out serving their community and always having each others backs no matter the situation. I joined my department in 1982, although I was there long before that with my dad and really enjoyed "hanging out" at the station and listening to the stories of the Big ones that occured in town and neighboring towns, the jokes played on one another, how so and so got into trouble with the Chief, the key was I was listening, not opening my mouth as a 18 year old kid that just joined even though my dad was one of the Chiefs. I was taught by watching and learning to how to respect the fire service by a band of brothers that seemed to do everything together, the firehouse was the hub of the community and a gathering place. Well sadly it surely is not that way, one night not long ago, a few of us that have been around for awhile were now the ones telling stories that we had gained during our service time and I made a comment about the "good old days" and much to my dismay the President at the time made a remark that appalled me to no end, this is what came out of the mouth, "Forget those days, they are long gone", summed it up for me right there. Am I as active as I once was, NO!, Do I have the drive I once had, NO!, can I do what I could do when I was 18 or 19, NO! I've put in 32 years into the emergency services both as a volunteer and as a career and still have it in my blood and desire to make my department the best department it can be but my words often go unheard, often ignored to the younger members that couldn't tell you who the first fire Chief was, hell they couldn't tell you who the Chief was in 2000, or even know that someone like my dad who still visits the fire station every day was even a Fire Chief, or that he is nearing 60 years as a member, unless they read it on one of the plaques at the station. I will say this, if we forget how we got here then we might as well close the doors, forgetting the past or not even wanting to know it is a travesty

It's a dame shame! Brotherhood is alive with certain long time members that have thick skin or ones you went to school with. Then came certain members that can't take a joke or go running to superiors to file a complaint. Those new breed of members are destroying the brotherhood. It's like walking on eggs. Riding a truck, going to a meeting, or a social event is very difficult. It has come to a point you can't trust anyone and say nothing about knowbody

FOUND and ok!

Antiquefirelt, I do think you hit the nail dead center on the head.
Respect for senior firefighters and officers has been destroyed by self-centered arrogant cocky young pups fresh out of firefighter 1 training who think they know it all too. Technology has taken away that close knit family feeling, and then the younger age coming in today are all "know-it-alls" because their daddy was a chief or their whole family was in the department...wrong. They come in instantly barking orders and demanding respect...wrong.
When I first joined in Long Island, I kept quiet, listened when a senior firefighter or officer spoke, volunteered for every assignment even if it was cleaning toilets, we had to stand at attention whenever the chief entered the meeting room during meetings or drills, and I never let a senior firefighter pack hose after calls even if I were exhausted. I asked them questions and tried to learn something new every time, even if I was already comfortable with what we were drilling on. I never acted cocky, or arrogant, or touted my own horn. After time, I saw that I EARNED the respect they finaly showed me when I was around the station, and I was able to joke around more. It took time. Today; everyone expects instant over-night success and respect just because they joined. I fully blame that on what was already mentioned a few times; todays kids are getting awards for everything, even just for participating, and they never fail and do not learn that they have to work hard to succeed. They are now turning 18 and joining the fire service expecting to be rewarded instantly for everything, and they dont know how to earn anything. Its sad.
I guess old timers like you and I are a thing of the past...
Brotherhood is dead, I dont know when it was on life support or how it ever was allowed to slip away like it did, but people like me, and you (antiquefirelt, Firnatine, and others) will still try to pass on the traditions and share the brotherhood that we have still in our hearts. Its up to the others to accept it and practice it though and thats what bothers me...

On the contrary in NY paid firefighters have mandatory basic and in-service training. Volunteers do not although most volunteer deparments do require FF! and some FF2 as well but that is under home rule and not dictated by the state.

Good luck with FASNY....I wrote them years ago when I was working as both a CFI and SFI and when the state went from the Basic, Int, and advanced cirriculum to FF1 and FF2. I expressed my concern that the time has come that we (volunteers) need to come up to par with the rest of the country with training. I felt that the FF1 as we have now was not enough for entry level and should include FAST, AVET, and HAZ-OPS at a minumum. Got no where.

On the contrary in NY paid firefighters have mandatory basic and in-service training. Volunteers do not although most volunteer deparments do require FF! and some FF2 as well but that is under home rule and not dictated by the state.

Just another paid position on a rotten fish. Being paid is not always the answer. How about every volunteer on this board, or better yet in this area write a letter and make a copies. Send one to FASNY, and the others to your elected officials demanding the same training as our paid counterparts. Professional firefighter training (and yearly refresher training) is written into law, remove the professional (paid) label so that firefighter training for both volunteer and paid is the same. The state will have find additional funding in the budget to accomplish this. FASNY would also have to be persuaded to support this. I think a lot of the problems we see in this area would improve. Might put a dent in some of the recruitment efforts, but maybe the ones who complain about training are not the people we want joining.

"The end result is you have people who are too afraid to talk with each other look at each other or even engage in friendly banter because something might be taken the wrong way. In my opinion this actually makes for a more hostile work environment as it erodes the camaraderie that has been a hallmark of the emergency services forever."
I agree word for word...just want to add it also gives some in charge that have vendettas against certain people some leverage.

No matter how many times the topic of provision of FAST is discussed in these forums, I still see many who seem to believe that FAST must be provided by a special 'team' (like haz mat, tech rescue or fire investigation). Like it or not, FAST is part of every firefighter's duties. Any engine, truck, rescue company or squad must be fully capable of being assigned as the FAST when arriving at an incident and functioning in that role should a firefighter get into trouble and require immediate assistance. This training should be part of the process of becoming certified as a firefighter.

Carl sold Macks to NR in the early 1950's. He retired from Hendrickson (Spartan ERV) this spring. Their are rumors that he started selling horses to FD's, he was around that long.
Nothing scarier than watching a 70-80 year old salesman climb a 100' ladder!

I found this on officer.com, it's a pretty good read.
http://www.officer.com/article/10850327/police-suicides-drop-in-2012
It's saddens me to think that there were 126 of my brothers and sisters out there that felt they were so alone and that things were so bad that they had no choice but to take their own life.
It is incumbant on us all to keep an eye on each other and to offer a helping hand or a kind word or an offer to talk if we see someone that may be in need.
We are all quick to ball break which most certainly has it's place in the emergency services but maybe if we were all as quick to notice the warning signs of a coworker in distress, something can be done to save a life.
The YPD dealt with this in 2005 when one of our brothers took his own life. We now have a peer counseling team made up of specially trained cops and supervisors that are available 24/7 to assist a cop in need. Yonkers also has an EAP program where all city workers can seek help.

"The end result is you have people who are too afraid to talk with each other look at each other or even engage in friendly banter because something might be taken the wrong way. In my opinion this actually makes for a more hostile work environment as it erodes the camaraderie that has been a hallmark of the emergency services forever."
I agree word for word...just want to add it also gives some in charge that have vendettas against certain people some leverage.

"The end result is you have people who are too afraid to talk with each other look at each other or even engage in friendly banter because something might be taken the wrong way. In my opinion this actually makes for a more hostile work environment as it erodes the camaraderie that has been a hallmark of the emergency services forever."
I agree word for word...just want to add it also gives some in charge that have vendettas against certain people some leverage.

Lately there seems to be a strong emphasis on harassment and harassment policies in emergency services. While I don't condone or encourage any form of deliberate harassment against anyone due to their race, religion, gender, etc...I do wonder if this has become a shield for the thin skinned or those with agendas. Like many on here I remember the days of good old fashioned b*** breaking and pranks and many times being the target of it and laughed with it and got even and laughed even more. It was a sense of belonging. A sense of trust. I also remember many strong disagreements and arguments, some very intense but at the end of the day it was over. Today you have to worry if someone will take what you say or do to the point where they will file internal or even get a lawyer or run to the police ( yes I have seen this happen) and look to file outside charges. I feel it has come to a point where you truly have to be careful what you say and do because you never know how someone is going to take it and it is unfortunate because I feel most incidents are not intended to be malicious rather innocent yet there is a chance someone may take it the wrong way and harassment policies that I have read are pretty much clear cut with zero tolerance by the AHJ and the AHJ has to act if a complaint is brought to them.
Here's to the good old days!!!

It seem as though if members of a Emergency Service( Paid or Volunteer ) have been in for along period of their career, that person knows the boundaries of what they can say or do.I always felt that joking and breaking b***s was a important part of bonding with one another.It seems as though when a probie joins or is hired they are quick to jump to conclusions that there is hostile or harassment taken place. It's important that employees or volunteers have a chance to release steam in the form of ribbing or practical jokes. It's like the old saying" If they don't make fun of you or break your chops, most likely that person doesn't like you. Thick skin is wearing out in the service, and it does effect moral. Of course there is a thin line not to cross, but if that happens it should be dealt with in a professional manner behind closed doors. The one thing I hate is when someone is made a example of in front of others. In a field where we deal with fire, accidents, death, etc. We need each other in a caring and joking atmosphere, not a hostile and "Let's not joke around anymore" attitude. Humor is the best medicine. But not in front of civilians! Everybody is always listening and watching. It's a damn shame, but this is the world we live in today; Sue, Suspend, Lay off, Transfer,Arbituator,and Sue again

Coming soon to a Kindle near you: "Hurt Feelings on the Fire Floor" a novel co-authored by folks who have gotten on the job via court order rather than merit ... So sad.

I went on the fire dept in 1975. I didn't know anybody. I thought I made a mistake taking the job. I thought these guys in the firehouse hated me. But I found out in a short time that it was actually the opposite. Very strong friendships developed. Actually, we all seemed to enjoy the attention. Name calling, joking, verbal abuse was all part of the firehouse. When one of us needed help at home for whatever reason, those guys were right there. It didn't matter who you were.
Things started to change in the mid 90s. You couldn't say things that we used to say. There was a change in the overall firehouse atmosphere. Life in the firehouse changed. Suddenly we were like kids in school being told what we could say and what we couldn't say.
Those guys that busted my stones years ago get together for a Country Breakfast once a month now. We act the same way as we did back in the 70s and 80s at the firehouse kitchen table. The other people in the restraunt get a free comedy show when we're all there. Our mannerism doesn't seem to bother those people in that restraunt and it certainly doesn't bother us.
I'm just glad I got a chance to have a great group of guys give me plenty of verbal abuse over the years. And I gave it back too.

Act but not investigate seems to be the usual course of action. They don't even bother to get the other side of the story in many cases.