firemoose827

I just wanted to ask for clarification here, but it seems to me the Levels are backwords in this quote, shouldnt FF1 be the basic level and FF2 be the advanced level? Yet here it states prerequisite for FF1 is FF2??? Just curious to see if it was a typo. I am currently a FF2 which I thought was the highest level a volunteer could reach in NYS since they do not have FF3 certification. This is great information though, and according to this I am only lacking the extra training hours that I lack for the academy, and then Rescue Technician Basic, in order to be a NYS Firefighter. I need to get me CPR back too but thats easy. Thanks for sharing this.

I was going to "reply" to your comment but I think Sage, firecapt32 and Bnechis did a fine job of explaining things better to you. But I can ask you a few questions to paint a better picture for you; what if a cop grabbed a well intentioned bystander, who "just wanted to help his neighbors", gave him some body armor and an AR 15, and told them to enter a bank filled with hostages and save them? Do you think the outcome will be positive, or messy?? OK, now take a Paramedic at an MCI accident. This medic grabs that same John Q Public guy who realy wants to help and tells him to go start an IV on the two unconcious people in the one car and do a needle chest decompression on them as well...are we getting anywhere yet?? If you want to help your neighbor thats great, I salute you and encourage you, but you need to KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING if you truly want to help someone. Training is essential to the fire service. It must be done, and it must be maintained and refreshed or you will end up killing someone. Im sorry, but your attitude towards the fire service and how you feel you dont need training to be a firefighter is dangerous, and its how we have so many LODD's to think about. Just one last thought to leave you with; your the John Q Public guy who realy wants to help, you jump on the shiny fire engine when the siren goes off, because you know, you want to help, right? When you arrive on scene you hear someone yelling for help, theres smoke coming from the structure but no fire, and you run up to the front door with your cape fluttering and your chest puffed out and you open the door..........do we still have viable victims to rescue at this point? Did we know what the signs of impending backdraft were before opening the door? Did we know where the fire was and have it properly vented and hoselines in place? But hey; you just want to help... Get training, or like everyone else told you already join the red cross or the local church so you can help.

I just wanted to clarify my position here, I wrote this in the FAST topic and quickly saw how many of you could get confused and call me out on this issue, so allow me to clarify; I believe there can be two forms of membership in the volunteer service; Firefighters, and "Support Personnel". The firefighters need that standard of training for the whole state, to be on the same page as other firefighters and I believe that we should have to get licensed like EMT's and Paramedics have to, so we have to re-certify every 5 years to keep up to date on old and new skills and demonstrate to an official person that we can still PERFORM those skills AND have the knowledge needed to stay alive, that we didnt forget it or that we actually PAYED ATTENTION during classes. Around here I see it too much; young guys go take every class, YET they are in the back row, no note books or pens, joking around with "buddies", not paying attention and there is NO TEST. At the end you go up and get your pretty piece of cardboard with you name on it and some fancy signatures from the fire administrator and fire coordinator (that means absolutely NOTHING without the "Passed Exam" in the upper corner) and go back to your station and start to brag about it... I feel that by having to pass both a written exam and practical exam, supervised by state officials from the fire service, in order to receive a "Firefighter I" License (Like a NYS EMT Card but for Firefighter I, II, III, Fire Officer I, II,III, and Haz-Mat Tech I, II, III) it would force these younger guys to pay attention and actually learn, and by re-certifying every five years its not just a get the certificate and throw it out and forget it type thing anymore, you need to stay on top of things, read articles, attend other classes so you can pass the re-cert tests. Thats what the volunteer fire service needs. As far as "Support Personnel", they can be like the old "Fire Patrol" units. They can support exterior ops like hose lays, drafting, ladder positioning, rehab areas, staging areas and then later assist with salvage operations and re-packing the hose and cleaning tools so the exhausted firefighters can take time to re-charge. Or like I mentioned in my quote, assist with shelters and other support functions like fund raisers and fire prevention activities.

This is the best, most direct and precise way to describe it. Just the way I feel. It shouldnt be that difficult to have certification tests and if you dont have it on file you dont fight fire. You just need honorable, trained and experienced leaders to enforce it. If you have a chief that got to the position by "skating" by with only essentials of firemanship that he took 30 years ago and no other training than yes, he wont support the new requirements because then he wont be approved. THATS why cheifs and officers refuse to accept changes, improvements and new laws in the fire service (atleast the volunteer side anyway because 95% of volunteer departments either dont have or dont enforce job requirements for the position of officer, just any warm body can take the job). They refuse to support anything that will make them and their "lack of training" look bad. That and they will loose their authority...and the pretty white hats and blinky red lights and the cool radio to play with...

1) To answer your first part simply; its called leadership. If your IC allows these drivers and "exterior" people to lead a rescue there are more issues in your department then you know. IC is set up for a reason, make them do their jobs better and these exterior ops guys wont be charging in the to "rescue". Before I continue, I agree with you 100% about the training standards needing to be the same across the state, if your title says "Firefighter" then you should have all the necessary training, and the right amount and type of training, to back that up. In my area it is common to see "exterior support" members (notice I didnt call them firefighters) that take training called "Scene Support Operations". These members are valuable to us as well. They assist the pump operator set up portable ponds, set up drafting operations, stretch and move around hose lines, chase kinks in hose lines, set up ladders on all sides of the building for emergency egress purposes, set up staging areas for tools, set up rehab areas for outcoming firefighters to get water and fresh bottles...it goes on and on. If you have to use interior firefighters to do all of these tasks...whos fighting the fire? Around here due to lack of help it would be nobody, cause they would all be doing these tasks first, THEN packing up and going in. We see them as valuable resources that can still be used to help their communities. During the storms (Irene and Sandy) these exterior support members would head up the shelter relief efforts alongside our ladies aux. units, doing the cooking for shelter workers, setting up the piles and piles of donations that were coming in and sorting them and distributing them (Our station ended up being a shelter for months due to the devastation in my area) and delivering much needed supplies to the hardest hit areas in my county. Some of these members put in hundreds of hours, hundreds of miles on their personal 4WD vehicles (to reach flood victims with food and clothing and cleaning supplies) so that those of us who are firefighters could be available to respond to actual emergency calls and not be tied up with shelter ops. They are usefull to some volunteer agencies, what needs to happen is the ability to think outside the box and realize that some communities are different then others and have different needs. Like the difference between westchester county and my county. As far as "Firefighters", hands down 100% without-a-doubt agree that we NEED the same training across the board. I would have loved to have taken the career academy when I first started out 24 years ago, but I made due. I took every and all training classes that came to my county, and even traveled to the fire academy in Montaur Falls a dozen times for good training. There are several courses I have taken 2-3 times already, and 1 or 2 that I have taken 4 times or more to refresh. I continue to train as well and will not stop, even though I am assistant chief. Just because I wear a white hat now doesnt mean I wont be needed to stretch and initial attack line, or do the primary search, or vent for the attack team. I will still be ready, and continue to train until I am old a frail, and will have to be forced to stop.

I corrected the original post to reflect the real spelling of her name, as well as some of the responses out of respect for her. It was the spelling given to us by a report, so let me know if this is the correct spelling please. May you rest in peace Irene, you are no longer in pain or discomfort...go with god now.

Yes. As an assistant chief, if I call for mutual aid for tankers and manpower...I want that manpower to be ready, able and trained to fight fires. Usually you will get a mix of members; some interior, some exterior, even some who are brand new members that have new turnouts on (but cant use them) and are basically good for "gopher" duties only. And in some cases you get more explorers riding the rig then firefighters. Same for accident scenes; I shouldnt have to ask if you are trained to extricate someone from a vehicle, if you dont have AVET then you shouldnt be on the rescue truck when it rolls to an MVA. My bitch for years has been to adopt the same standards as EMT's in our state. They have to go through a certification process involving training (classroom and hands on), and two tests in order to receive your license. Then you have to re-cert every three years. THATS the way it should be for firefighters, but I feel a good re-cert term for us would be five years. Show up, demonstrate you still know the basic skills in the training facility, take a test and your re-certified. Fail...and you have to re-take the training. Lots of people hate the idea, yet they still bitch on these forums that training standards should be taken more seriously state wide for firefighters....I feel this idea is a good option; is it the ultimate cure for the problem? Never. But its a good option that should be considered and revised to suit our needs. But I agree; same training for every firefighter, paid or volunteer, big city or small rural farm community with one engine and 6 members. Same across the board so every "firefighter" on scene can do every task required of them.

Not sure what you are implying here but we do train for the worst. We, just like everyone, have our members who only want the glory and front page pictures, but there are a lot of us that take training when offered and do it so we can help, not to get attention. I agree with you though, training should be taken more seriously and not just when its "fun".

Congratulations Port Chester Post 700.

Rest in Peace. May god bless those families and friends who lost their loved ones and be with them in their time of grief. Prayers to everyone.

Everyone is required to take "Firefighter Safety and Survival" in my area to be an interior. When they go through the FF I course they get a look at our FAST first hand and see what they do to rescue someone. There is also regular FAST courses as well. I agree about that, everyone should have the training so you are all on the same page. Routine trainings on Mayday calls and what to do when one is called should also be done. I ask people all the time during drills what would happen if...and 7 times out of ten they dont mention calling a Mayday, they just try to fix the problem. We are working on that issue through training with the FAST at our new training facility.

Our county team trains with departments regularly, and is required for all Firefighter I courses when they go to the training center. They are also required to be present for all live fire excercises at the training center. I will be planning a drill for them to attend with our department soon I hope, because not too many of our people are familiar with their techniques and what is expected of us as a department when they actually go to work on a scene.

Im in the State EOC, looking at other pictures, its pretty bad. My county sent SEFU's to Herkimer county to assist. Flooding is surpassing major mark.

Would you require committee members to be close, or will/could this be handled over the phone/computer? I would help any way I could but live 3 hours away. Let me know, thanks!

Congrats Rob! Im here to help in any way, this site has been a great thing for a lot of the members including me, allowed me to make lots of connections and networks, and even make a few friends. Good luck to you in your new position. Moose

I agree, police are needed for all scenes. In my old department the village cops responded to all of our calls in the village, EMS and Fire. One or two were also volunteers themselves and could get on scene and grab that ACCURATE information you talked about. For EMS calls they make sure the scene is safe, no matter what we were called for, and help us with equipment and the stretcher, and help carry them to the rig and on a few occaissions they even went to the ER and helped us get the larger pt's out of the rig too. For fires they blocked off the road and kept bystanders out, even helped us hit a plug every now and then too and stretch supply lines. I have no issue with them responding at all. Like we all mentioned, its the first responder that doesnt THINK and apply their TRAINING and puts themselves in unnecessary danger that we are talking about; Fire, EMS or LEO.

That makes me sick too...I have heard hundreds (no exageration) of young firefighters argue that with todays training it makes them equipped to be officer at an early stage...I still say BULL &^*%!!! This just proves my point; they lack the maturity and real life experience to properly lead a fire department or even a company. They may be well trained, yes, granted...BUT...You still need to take that training and apply it in the field to get real life experience, and you MATURE as a result of that experience. To read this article and see that his excuse was "Well company officers and members have been drinking at parades for a long time now and no officer or official have done anything about it..." makes me sick. He KNEW about the problem and did nothing about it as one of the chiefs. He participated in the infraction himself being drunk behind the wheel, putting him, his FF's, and if his family or someone elses family was with them as well all in jeopardy.You need mature people with experience in the field and lots of training to properly lead a department as chief. Lieutenant...Maybe a younger person (21-25) can take that spot and learn from his/her captains and chiefs and gain some insight to properly run a dept, but any chief spot? That should be someone in the dept for over 20 years, knows the equipment, knows the district blind folded, knows the people, has tons of training and field tested experience on the nozzle or on the roof or crawling down that hallway with a high level of MATURITY to lead. Luckily, no one was seriously injured or killed...this time. He injured one of his men (hopefully not out of work on disability or anything), and probably destroyed the truck wasting tons of taxpayers money to either repair or replace it. He put his district in danger because now they are down by one truck that they would normally depend on and have to rely on mutual aid. He should have the white hat taken away, and given a hot pink helmet with a bunch of AA stickers and 12-step program stickers on it for a year and have his driving priveledges permenantly taken away. Maybe that will give him the maturity he NEEDED when he took the office. Sorry...im done now...and I respectfully dont want to hear any younger member say anything to me like "But there are some of us that are mature..." please...just respect my opinion because you will not change it until I see a young chief work miracles...then maybe we can talk...

Truckies VS. Engine.... I can beat you all on this one, I happen to go both ways... Your not a fireman until you are an "Iron Man Firefighter" and have to do both jobs at a moments notice. Stay Safe out there...(truckies)...

I never said anyone here was attacking the LE Community. I quoted you because you used the term vile. I was addressing what I thought to be a topic wide thought that we were singling out LEO's, which is why I clearly stated we were concerned with ALL first responders that make poor decisions. Maybe you should re-read my post??? Im all for ALL first responders. As a "supervisory position" i too look to make sure all of us come home after every call. I admit it though, I am new to the chiefs position and would welcome any and all advice you ahve for me in that area. I respect your experience and training. My thoughts here...simply put; ALL first responders (FD, PD, EMS) that arrive on scene first need to be aware of ALL of the dangers, including the new ones like I mentioned in my post. Too many of us die recently due to someone else trying to take their own lives, or trying to get a high, or simply because they are pissed at the world but dont have the courage to end it on their own so they get a gun and hope the LEO's will shoot them...its a sad world we live in. But you dont have to worry about me, Im on OUR side here and not singling any one out, just concerned for the recent events and how some first responders are still acting dangerously without applying their training and knowledge. Stay Safe out there.

I have no "vile" towords any police officer, and if there is a situation that a LEO deserves accolades Im one of the people doing it. You seem to be missing one point yourself...we are concerned for the welfare of ANY first responder that takes it upon themselves to enter an IDLH atmosphere without any information (such as the CO incident). With all of the talk about "chemical assisted suicides", and drug labs with deadly gasses...WHAT would make someone with no airway protection enter in to a situation like that? Regardless of known life hazards?? You could instantly drop dead of exposure if you tried to run into a chemical suicide or drug lab gone bad situation. There was a situation in NY not too long ago where EMS were dispatched to a "Man Down" call. When they arrived the wife was just outside the closed front door saying her husband is on the floor just inside the door and she doesnt know any other way in to get to him...wait, you live there, and dont know any other way in??? That should have stopped EMS there but they forced the door/victim open enough to get to him and 2 medics dropped dead from fumes coming from an illegal drug lab in the living room. The wife knew this and thats why she was not trying to get to her husband. Point in case- we dont know what is going on inside the house in situations like this; could be just CO, could be a mass chemical suicide, could be a group of druggies fallen victim to their own drug lab, could be ANYTHING. Police have vests, guns, tazers and other things to handle perps. Firefighters have gear, air packs, and other tools to fight fires and make rescues. A TRAINED police officer should be able to look at all the info, the area they are responding to, and have enough sense to say "Ok, I will give FD a few minutes to get here and see where I am at at that point". Just like if I roll up to my bank, look throught he window and see a masked man holding a gun to the tellers head, I will have enough sense to say "Ok, Im going to hold all these people out of the bank and call PD and wait for them to charge in there." There are situations where it is necessary for us to make split second decisions, like Seth mentioned about the PD arriving on scene of a house fire, kids trapped and FD 15 minutes out...If it were me I would most certainly run in and ATTEMPT to make a rescue any way I could, I am human, all training and uniforms and job titles asside...if I am on scene and other humans are in trouble I will want to help. No one here hates cops. I believe everyone here was confused over your initial post and what your intent was exactly. I myself saw this post when no one had answered yet and I waited for others to respond to see if they knew what you were asking, or wanted to discuss. Just sayin.

Yah but the "Disabled" line fits him perfectly...mentally disabled...

Gotta admit, with this picture, it looks like an assault rifle. Anyone got any good info for the old piercing nozzle then??? LOL

Good point. But I speak from "Small Town USA" where everyone knows everybody. I am used to rolling up to a house fire and knowing right away, either from the people living there or neighbors, that everyone is out, not home, on vacation etc etc. We dont have vagrant issues or squatters, we can do a quick search relatively quickly too in most of our typical "ranch" style houses through windows and doors and using our TIC. I was merely throwing it out for discussion. The age old "Another tool in the tool box when used appropriately" discussion.

I agree with what you say chief, but I also believe that with the fire service growing so rapidly, and new innovations and techniques being born daily, the "older" tools get forgotten because of the newer tools. Officers forget that they are still in the tool box. I read a great article recently, and I just spent the past 30 minutes looking for it on countless magazine web sites but was unable to locate it unfortunately. It was a great piece on the re-invention of older tools, and the writer discussed specifically the use of the cellar nozzle, piercing nozzle and the hose clamp. Simple, older tools that have been "forgotten" about, yet they can still play a major role in today's fire scenes with a little imagination and creativity. I was seriously thinking about using the piercing nozzle a lot more for different applications in my area. The cellar nozzle is still a great oldie, and can be used for more then cellar fires. I believe this Pyrolance is worth a good look, maybe even a demo at the station, but would never go into any major purchase without looking at it from every angle first and discussing it with members and mutual aid departments as well. Still just a good idea to look at for my situation; large coverage area, no municipal water source, a few large ponds scattered over the area with only 2 working dry hydrants to use, and very minimal manpower for the initial attack. This tool could help us if used the right way, and that comes with training and practical use. Very good points though and I agree.

I like this concept for a small rural volunteer fire dept with minimal manpower and no municipal water sources. The informational video did specify that it takes less water to extinguish and it showed one man using it. In my department we roll with 3000 gallons and 2 firefighters for the first few minutes. Deploying a pyrolance to either gain a quick effective knock down from outside, or at least until other manpower arrives to safely make the attack (with the 2-in-2-out rule) cooling the interior and halting the spread of fire is a bonus in my book. It would take long hours of training and practical evolutions to make sure the dept and our mutual aid as well become familiar with it enough to use it in their sleep, and would only be used for the first few minutes, sort of like a blitz attack but instead of the deck gun we would use the Pyrolance, then shut it down and advance the attack lines. Could be used in backdraft situations in some of our newer air-tight construction we see today with the energy efficient windows and doors. Much safer than traditional coordiantion of vent and attack, especially when you dont have the manpower to do both at the same time. I was thinking of re-training with the piercing nozzle for this, but the pyrolance makes the hole for you, and you wouldnt get the regular piercing nozzle through exterior siding, you would need to get inside and pierce the sheetrock which could be dangerous. Im just brainstorming here though, throwing out ideas for discussion.