INIT915

In line with the dangers of this career -- http://www.timesunion.com/news/crime/article/Police-officer-fatally-shot-in-upstate-NY-5732931.php#photo-6811365
While some on this forum probably don't see this as a tragedy, I believe most do and will.

What EMTBravo Fan Club?
Do you think if the cops asked this guy politely this whole incident would have been avoided?
This incident started with a felon hitting people with a 2x4. That info comes from witnesses, not the cops. Something tells me the perp was not interested in being civil about his encounters that afternoon.
Sorry to inform you, but his actions set the tone.
Your statement "I guess we need extremes like the protests that occurred in Furguson, MO to combat the other extreme, the one being vocalized on this very thread", is probably one of the more asinine statements I have read on this forum. But, your comment describing the Trooper as a degenerate with a High School diploma and a badge on his chest speaks volumes about where you are coming from.
...and FYI, Troopers do not wear badges on their chest.

And that basically sums it up. In the eyes of the general public, if the officers act too quickly, they are faulted for not letting the situation self-defuse. If they wait too long to act in hopes the situation self-defuses, they are faulted. It's a lose-lose proposition.

Even if it was a kick to the head, I think the Troopers were justified.
No law ever said the cops had to be nice, just civil.
If you instigate a problem you really have no complaint when it does not have a happy ending for you.
Once a person makes the decision to go hands on with the Police, he chose his hand.
What happens after that is up to, and the responsibility of, the perp. I am not saying there are no limits to what the Police can be justified in doing, there are.
But, I see no problem with "one-upping" a perp. If you use your hands, so can the cops, (this includes using feet) and the cops can "one-up" by using a stick, taser or spray. If it is one perp, there can be 2, or 3 or more cops. If you use a weapon, the cops can use a gun.
No one ever said the cops had to fight fair.
The perps are not going to!
No one ever said Policing was pretty. It is not. But people seem to have a problem when they see it.
I have done this for a bit over 27 years.
I say put on a shield and go out there and show me how it is done.
I say kudos to the Troopers.

Not a kick to the head, a kick of the hat away so that OC Pepper could be utilized.
From the guy who took and posted the video:

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/crime/2014/09/02/montrose-man-charged-assaulting-troopers/14955227/
Looks like the Troopers were looking to take him into custody after he beat another guy with a 2x4. Four previous felony convictions, and free to walk the streets!

Well, is still it a violation if they don't transport anyone? Can they get paid to just drive around in an area outside their CON? And if the president just happens to be driving in the same direction, on the same road, at the same time... and then he needs an ambulance and flags you down....? Is THAT OK?

Date: 08/16/14
Time: 10:26 a.m.
Location: Building 11, Amberlands Apartments
District: Montrose
Units:
Montrose FD: E122, E123, R51, Chiefs
Buchanan FD: U12, Chiefs
Croton FD: E119, Chiefs
Verplanck FD: TL46, Chiefs
Montrose VA FD: E225, Chief
Cortlandt VAC
NYSP: 3K57, 5K114
WC C&O: Zone 4
T.O.C. Fire Inspector

Description: Heavy fire in a 24-unit OMD.

Date: 08/16/14
Time: 10:26 a.m.
Location: Building 11, Amberlands Apartments
District: Montrose
Units:
Montrose FD: E122, E123, R51, Chiefs
Buchanan FD: U12, Chiefs
Croton FD: E119, Chiefs
Verplanck FD: TL46, Chiefs
Montrose VA FD: E225, Chief
Cortlandt VAC
NYSP: 3K57, 5K114
WC C&O: Zone 4
T.O.C. Fire Inspector

Description: Heavy fire in a 24-unit OMD.

HIPPA generally does not apply to law enforcement and medical examiners. HIPPA is not as broad as many people believe, it actually covers very little information. On top of that, some states have very broad public disclosure laws that mandate much of this information is public.

HIPPA generally does not apply to law enforcement and medical examiners. HIPPA is not as broad as many people believe, it actually covers very little information. On top of that, some states have very broad public disclosure laws that mandate much of this information is public.

Actually, you keep your HIPPA protections fro 50 years following the date of your death. But the second part is correct, in many, but not all states, Death Certificates are public.

What if? What if? What if?
You can "what if" things to death and the bottom line always seems to be we respond to the call we have. We don't decline to respond so we can remain available for the call that we MAY get.
What if Engines 131 and 134 are on another FIRE call when your hypothetical structure fire comes in across town? Does it matter that the call is EMS or FIRE? It shouldn't. It's still our customer calling for help.

First, let me say, I am not commenting on this specific case, rather in generalities which have a connection to this case.
Medical Examiner determinations are very different from legal/police definitions.
Medical Examiners generally have five classifications (there is a sixth in New York City).
Natural
Suicide
Homicide
Accident
Undetermined (Rarely used when none of four above can truly be determined, despite all best efforts)
(NYC Only: Complication of Therapeutic or Diagnostic Procedures)
Homicide from a Medical Examiners perspective means ‘‘occurs when death results from...’’ an injury or poisoning or
from ‘‘...a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide.’’ It merely means the death was caused by another person. Not all deaths caused by another person meet the legal/penal law definition of homicide. Here is the perfect example. A guy breaks into your house and you shoot him dead. The Medical Examiner classification for that is homicide, as it was caused by another person (you). However, from a legal perspective, you had the law on you side and you committed no legal violation whatsoever. The two areas are often conflated, but they are essentially only tangentially related. Another interesting exception exists with DWI fatalities. But that's another story.

First, let me say, I am not commenting on this specific case, rather in generalities which have a connection to this case.
Medical Examiner determinations are very different from legal/police definitions.
Medical Examiners generally have five classifications (there is a sixth in New York City).
Natural
Suicide
Homicide
Accident
Undetermined (Rarely used when none of four above can truly be determined, despite all best efforts)
(NYC Only: Complication of Therapeutic or Diagnostic Procedures)
Homicide from a Medical Examiners perspective means ‘‘occurs when death results from...’’ an injury or poisoning or
from ‘‘...a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide.’’ It merely means the death was caused by another person. Not all deaths caused by another person meet the legal/penal law definition of homicide. Here is the perfect example. A guy breaks into your house and you shoot him dead. The Medical Examiner classification for that is homicide, as it was caused by another person (you). However, from a legal perspective, you had the law on you side and you committed no legal violation whatsoever. The two areas are often conflated, but they are essentially only tangentially related. Another interesting exception exists with DWI fatalities. But that's another story.

First, let me say, I am not commenting on this specific case, rather in generalities which have a connection to this case.
Medical Examiner determinations are very different from legal/police definitions.
Medical Examiners generally have five classifications (there is a sixth in New York City).
Natural
Suicide
Homicide
Accident
Undetermined (Rarely used when none of four above can truly be determined, despite all best efforts)
(NYC Only: Complication of Therapeutic or Diagnostic Procedures)
Homicide from a Medical Examiners perspective means ‘‘occurs when death results from...’’ an injury or poisoning or
from ‘‘...a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide.’’ It merely means the death was caused by another person. Not all deaths caused by another person meet the legal/penal law definition of homicide. Here is the perfect example. A guy breaks into your house and you shoot him dead. The Medical Examiner classification for that is homicide, as it was caused by another person (you). However, from a legal perspective, you had the law on you side and you committed no legal violation whatsoever. The two areas are often conflated, but they are essentially only tangentially related. Another interesting exception exists with DWI fatalities. But that's another story.

First, let me say, I am not commenting on this specific case, rather in generalities which have a connection to this case.
Medical Examiner determinations are very different from legal/police definitions.
Medical Examiners generally have five classifications (there is a sixth in New York City).
Natural
Suicide
Homicide
Accident
Undetermined (Rarely used when none of four above can truly be determined, despite all best efforts)
(NYC Only: Complication of Therapeutic or Diagnostic Procedures)
Homicide from a Medical Examiners perspective means ‘‘occurs when death results from...’’ an injury or poisoning or
from ‘‘...a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide.’’ It merely means the death was caused by another person. Not all deaths caused by another person meet the legal/penal law definition of homicide. Here is the perfect example. A guy breaks into your house and you shoot him dead. The Medical Examiner classification for that is homicide, as it was caused by another person (you). However, from a legal perspective, you had the law on you side and you committed no legal violation whatsoever. The two areas are often conflated, but they are essentially only tangentially related. Another interesting exception exists with DWI fatalities. But that's another story.

First, let me say, I am not commenting on this specific case, rather in generalities which have a connection to this case.
Medical Examiner determinations are very different from legal/police definitions.
Medical Examiners generally have five classifications (there is a sixth in New York City).
Natural
Suicide
Homicide
Accident
Undetermined (Rarely used when none of four above can truly be determined, despite all best efforts)
(NYC Only: Complication of Therapeutic or Diagnostic Procedures)
Homicide from a Medical Examiners perspective means ‘‘occurs when death results from...’’ an injury or poisoning or
from ‘‘...a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide.’’ It merely means the death was caused by another person. Not all deaths caused by another person meet the legal/penal law definition of homicide. Here is the perfect example. A guy breaks into your house and you shoot him dead. The Medical Examiner classification for that is homicide, as it was caused by another person (you). However, from a legal perspective, you had the law on you side and you committed no legal violation whatsoever. The two areas are often conflated, but they are essentially only tangentially related. Another interesting exception exists with DWI fatalities. But that's another story.

First, let me say, I am not commenting on this specific case, rather in generalities which have a connection to this case.
Medical Examiner determinations are very different from legal/police definitions.
Medical Examiners generally have five classifications (there is a sixth in New York City).
Natural
Suicide
Homicide
Accident
Undetermined (Rarely used when none of four above can truly be determined, despite all best efforts)
(NYC Only: Complication of Therapeutic or Diagnostic Procedures)
Homicide from a Medical Examiners perspective means ‘‘occurs when death results from...’’ an injury or poisoning or
from ‘‘...a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide.’’ It merely means the death was caused by another person. Not all deaths caused by another person meet the legal/penal law definition of homicide. Here is the perfect example. A guy breaks into your house and you shoot him dead. The Medical Examiner classification for that is homicide, as it was caused by another person (you). However, from a legal perspective, you had the law on you side and you committed no legal violation whatsoever. The two areas are often conflated, but they are essentially only tangentially related. Another interesting exception exists with DWI fatalities. But that's another story.

First, let me say, I am not commenting on this specific case, rather in generalities which have a connection to this case.
Medical Examiner determinations are very different from legal/police definitions.
Medical Examiners generally have five classifications (there is a sixth in New York City).
Natural
Suicide
Homicide
Accident
Undetermined (Rarely used when none of four above can truly be determined, despite all best efforts)
(NYC Only: Complication of Therapeutic or Diagnostic Procedures)
Homicide from a Medical Examiners perspective means ‘‘occurs when death results from...’’ an injury or poisoning or
from ‘‘...a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide.’’ It merely means the death was caused by another person. Not all deaths caused by another person meet the legal/penal law definition of homicide. Here is the perfect example. A guy breaks into your house and you shoot him dead. The Medical Examiner classification for that is homicide, as it was caused by another person (you). However, from a legal perspective, you had the law on you side and you committed no legal violation whatsoever. The two areas are often conflated, but they are essentially only tangentially related. Another interesting exception exists with DWI fatalities. But that's another story.

First, let me say, I am not commenting on this specific case, rather in generalities which have a connection to this case.
Medical Examiner determinations are very different from legal/police definitions.
Medical Examiners generally have five classifications (there is a sixth in New York City).
Natural
Suicide
Homicide
Accident
Undetermined (Rarely used when none of four above can truly be determined, despite all best efforts)
(NYC Only: Complication of Therapeutic or Diagnostic Procedures)
Homicide from a Medical Examiners perspective means ‘‘occurs when death results from...’’ an injury or poisoning or
from ‘‘...a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide.’’ It merely means the death was caused by another person. Not all deaths caused by another person meet the legal/penal law definition of homicide. Here is the perfect example. A guy breaks into your house and you shoot him dead. The Medical Examiner classification for that is homicide, as it was caused by another person (you). However, from a legal perspective, you had the law on you side and you committed no legal violation whatsoever. The two areas are often conflated, but they are essentially only tangentially related. Another interesting exception exists with DWI fatalities. But that's another story.

First, let me say, I am not commenting on this specific case, rather in generalities which have a connection to this case.
Medical Examiner determinations are very different from legal/police definitions.
Medical Examiners generally have five classifications (there is a sixth in New York City).
Natural
Suicide
Homicide
Accident
Undetermined (Rarely used when none of four above can truly be determined, despite all best efforts)
(NYC Only: Complication of Therapeutic or Diagnostic Procedures)
Homicide from a Medical Examiners perspective means ‘‘occurs when death results from...’’ an injury or poisoning or
from ‘‘...a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide.’’ It merely means the death was caused by another person. Not all deaths caused by another person meet the legal/penal law definition of homicide. Here is the perfect example. A guy breaks into your house and you shoot him dead. The Medical Examiner classification for that is homicide, as it was caused by another person (you). However, from a legal perspective, you had the law on you side and you committed no legal violation whatsoever. The two areas are often conflated, but they are essentially only tangentially related. Another interesting exception exists with DWI fatalities. But that's another story.

one thing see that doesnot make sense the dispatchers help with the losap how excactly do they do that and as far as a full time presence in town who sees them in a fire house answering phones

Ok folks… who other than me is going to call this guy out. Go to his profile, read the contributions he has made in previous threads. None of them are productive. The post quoted above is as fictitious as it gets.

So you take one physical fitness test and you are good for 20+ years. Cash in the pocket of your loved ones should you die, Health benefits paid for. You are a perfect example of why the fire service is going down the tubes. Not a mention of training, having a desire to be in the fire service, wanting to learn and teach those younger than you. BTW your last sentence is apparently a bash at volunteers, and I and many of my brothers respond day and night along with weekends! I would rather crawl down a hall with a younger volunteer fresh out of FF 1 and 2 than some of the career guys who have been holding on for 30+ years without doing a sit up.