Fireman488

The NYS DMV Lens Program is terrific. Our department has used it for a number of years.
It provides continuous updates (by email) on the status of members' driver's licenses and it's free of charge.

In another thread, everyone is whining there aren't enough people going to calls. You all need to decide if you want your cake and if so, whether you want to eat it or not.
Having two, three or four elected Chiefs seems to be the norm around here. Do all of them NEED to go to every call? Nope, but what happens when all of them decide not to go because they assume the other one is going? Now you have no Chiefs, which will stem a new "Where's Department X's Chiefs" thread on this site. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
For every incident you need an Incident Commander. This can be a Chief, a Captain, A Lieutenant or just Joe Firefighter who happens to be "in the seat" of the first arriving unit. It doesn't have to be an elected officer or even an appointed one, but someone has to take command of the call. This is why solid training programs combined with minimum training requirements and electing/appointing the right people is critical. You never know who is going to be in charge and what they may be in charge of.
Prime example, we were sitting on a wires down call last week and found a restaurant on fire. Now what would happen if the only unit on scene was an Engine without a competent boss? Again, it doesn't need to be a Chief, but be smart about who sits in the seat of your rigs EVERY CALL.
Since Chiefs are elected to lead their departments, ideally it would be nice for at least one of them to show up at calls, right? After all, they have the Fire SUV and all of the radios. I know that in our department, as well as many others, a Chief may ride the seat of an apparatus instead of sending multiple command vehicles into the scene. I know some are against this and others like it - personally I don't care what others think of how we operate, because it works and we know it.
Bottom line, we don't always "need" a Chief at an incident, but Seth is 100% right, they're needed to handle all of the non-incident business of the department. This includes record keeping, meeting training requirements, developing, implementing and enforcing policies and procedures, buying stuff, repairing stuff, replacing stuff, and above all - making sure everyone is happy and gets home safe.
Not always true.
Again, not always true.

But I will say this - I would put up most of my members and Officers against many others any day of the week. That's how much faith I have in them.

There's a novel idea...

We use Drager 4 gas (Carbon Monoxide, Oxygen, Methane, and Hydrogen Sulfide) meters and Drager single gas personal CO meters. They are very reliable.
We do our own simple calibrations every 180 days. The customer service is excellent; and as mentioned above they are affordable.

Well here in Elmsford the water was more like waist deep then ankle deep and also the area was not an evacuation zone. Ill still go with removal but was a little more then skipping through ankle deep water.

But they didn't so lets not speculate on the "what ifs". The fact is that some agencies, including my own were wading through stagnant, ankle deep water and putting people who had PLENTY of advanced warning on these inflatable boats so that they wouldn't get their feet wet and boasting on how many "water rescues" they pulled off.
I have no issues with evacuating folks, even the idiots that should have left on their own while the earth was still dry. My thing is why treat these people as if they would melt if they touch the water? I'd would have them walk out of the house on their own and purposely make them get wet. Perhaps then it would serve as a lesson to them to heed the warnings and to not tie up resources with nonsense.
Rescues and removals are like apples and oranges. Far from semantics. Lets not cheapen the heroics of some brothers by trying to stretch the truth.

I too saw the footage on CNN and given what happened in Croton, I wouldn't be so quick to call evacuation/removal from a flooded home a "rescue". These people knew way ahead of time what was coming. This was planned and tons of advanced warning given out. From what I saw on TV they were in no imminent danger of death or serious injury from submersion, being swept away or crushed by the force of the water. Aside from the elderly, infirmed or handicapped, the people I saw being removed were merely being inconvenienced and didn't want to get their feet wet.
Now just from reading the IA this morning, the incident in Croton was a "true" rescue. Good job by all involved, hope their injuries aren't too serious and they make a quick recovery.

Yonkers was probably dispatched due to a 911 call...just guessing. It came through Yonkers dispatch. That road is a broken street that runs into Yonkers, to the east side of the Saw Mill Pkwy. As for the fire, I don't believe the tank had released prior to Hastings units arriving on scene so probably why no foam was flowing earlier on. Once it did start to let go, a dike was made with speedy dry downhill on the road, but did not hold up due to the flow of water. I think the main concern was on exposure and the car fire itself. Also, just my thoughts, but the road was also on a decent grade and building a bigger dike likely would have just led the gas to the opposite side of the road once filled with water, into YFD rigs. Before anyone criticizes rig placement...it was a hill. Once YFD got there there was no room to park uphill, so rigs were spotted opposite the trail of water at a good distance away from the main fire. A dry chemical extinguisher was used earlier on...darkened it down, but the vehicle tires had blown and the vehicle was sitting very low. Some unreached spots of fire just reignited the gas. Once foam was put into operation it was not doing much since the driveway slope was too severe for foam to maintain a blanket, and again, very difficult to get sufficient foam up to the tank due to the tires being out. The vehicle had a full 40 gallon tank from what I was told, so it leaked for a while. Both departments worked well together and I'm sure Hastings would have stuck around if roles were reversed. It was quite obvious that it was a stubborn fire. Thanks for the cookies Hastings!

Chris,
You are correct, we do have a crew system, but it is utilized at night between the hours of 11 PM to 6 AM.
It is a system that works very well for us, as we average approximately 1,200 runs per year (600+ Fire & 500+ EMS).
Fire crews (Officer, chauffeur and four firefighters) are on duty for a week at a time. Crew members do not stay in the firehouse, but are responsible for responding on all fire runs during crew hours. They are also responsible for checking the rigs and all equipment on Sunday or Monday of crew week.
Non-crew members may respond as well.
Working fires or serious incidents are a general response.
EMS crews (Officer/EMT, driver, 2 additional EMTs) are nightly, with a different crew on duty every night. Crew members do not stay in the firehouse, but are responsible for responding on all EMS runs during crew hours. They are also responsible for checking the rigs and all equipment on Sunday or Monday on a rotating basis.
Daytime response isn't an issue due to a good response from a variety of members who are Village employees, shift workers, college students, young retirees or those who work in the Village and can leave their jobs.
Stay safe,
Syd Henry
Elmsford FD

Chris,
You are correct, we do have a crew system, but it is utilized at night between the hours of 11 PM to 6 AM.
It is a system that works very well for us, as we average approximately 1,200 runs per year (600+ Fire & 500+ EMS).
Fire crews (Officer, chauffeur and four firefighters) are on duty for a week at a time. Crew members do not stay in the firehouse, but are responsible for responding on all fire runs during crew hours. They are also responsible for checking the rigs and all equipment on Sunday or Monday of crew week.
Non-crew members may respond as well.
Working fires or serious incidents are a general response.
EMS crews (Officer/EMT, driver, 2 additional EMTs) are nightly, with a different crew on duty every night. Crew members do not stay in the firehouse, but are responsible for responding on all EMS runs during crew hours. They are also responsible for checking the rigs and all equipment on Sunday or Monday on a rotating basis.
Daytime response isn't an issue due to a good response from a variety of members who are Village employees, shift workers, college students, young retirees or those who work in the Village and can leave their jobs.
Stay safe,
Syd Henry
Elmsford FD

While I am no longer a parade person any longer I do recall seeing a career dept 3/4 million dollar ladder on the opposite side of the county for a parade with its vollies, being driven by a career member. So it may be practiced alot more by volunteer departments but is not exclusive to volunteer departments.

Just because you "don't like parades" doesn't give you the right to criticize those that do. I don't like to eat lamb, but I don't complain about people who do.
I disagree with you that only "volunteers attend parades". What about all the St. Patrick's Day Parades? Were there not paid departments in attendance? Yes, I know, they were not working or probably banged out sick. Others were working therefore there was coverage - same as in a volunteer agency, people stay back for coverage.
I also disagree that departments only worry about coverage during parades. You are way off base, and again, should not be generalizing.

Actually the department im referring to is a career Dept. There are a handful of vollies that do nothing. The driver is career and was on overtime. Rediculious? Its only rediculious when vollies do it.

In our department, former chiefs are eligible to be appointed by the current Chief for a one year term as a Deputy Chief, which must be renewed annually.
Our Deputy Chiefs mostly serve in a support role: training, administrative duties, command board assistance, mentoring of younger officers, etc.
They continue to take classes on a regular basis.
They do not have white helmets or white coats. They do not have red lights or sirens in their POVs.
They do have white frontpieces on black helmets, indicating their designation.
They do have radio designations (2110-1, 2110-2, etc), which they use when in command only. Our department always uses Incident Command terminology, which mostly negates the need for personal numbers.
They respond on the apparatus as regular firefighters and only take command in the absence of any officer: chief, captain, lieutenant.
They are also available to give advice, when requested.
Personally, Deputy Chiefs were most helpful to me during my term of office.

Having lived in Austin, Texas for over three years now after living in Hartsdale, NY for 28, and having worked with law enforcement agencies in both areas, I've noticed something.
THIS IS IN NO WAY A KNOCK AT POLICE OFFICERS, JUST MY OPINION AND OBSERVATION
Down here, cops want to be cops. They want to go out and make arrests, do felony stops, nab DWI and aggresive drivers, etc. They go out and find work, or are dispatched to it-work is plentiful. They follow up with previous victims, and take pride in the sector they work, and knowing it well. They'll help the FD when needed, but they don't duplicate any services. In fact, they get along quite well in most jurisdictions. Most have no interest in firefighting or doing anything the FD's doing. In fact, most people pursue either a law enforcement, EMS, or FD career. People just don't take tests until they are offered something.
It seems like Police Officers in NYC Metro area want to be into everything. Several muncipalities not only have ESU, but some have technical rescue teams, etc. Now, given the infastructure in NY, that's no a bad thing. But someone, seemingly an ESU officer, make some observations about a recent rope rescue Yonkers FD was involved in, which led me to thinking.
I believe STRONGLY in the ESU concept, however I think they should be more focused on tactical operations and supporting other law enforcement endeavors then tying themselves up with what the FD's already doing. These are highly trained police officers, with special equipment. Why tye them up on something the FD is already doing, and why is it a competition? Why are there more officers interested in getting rope certification then assualt rifle certification? Why aren't there more officers assigned to Hudson River patrols? ESU does a great job, but they should really be there for law enforcement work. I mean, I could understand having to rapell to get to a suicide victim or for SWAT purposes, but for rescuing stranded workers from a ledge...that's what the firefighters signed up to do.
Which leads me to wonder, why in the northeast, with less police officers, funding being cut, and crime rising, would officers want to deal with things beyond the law enforcement scope? Why would they want to direct funding towards equipment the FD already has and duplicate services? I know a lot is grant-funded, but if you don't need it let it go to someone who does. I think money would be better spent on having more K-9 units.
Why do officers down here have such a focused law enforcement different mentality, and in NY they want to do everything? I don't see firefighters wanting guns and handcuffs. Cops should be proud and excited that they are cops, and should take every bad guy off the streeet they can.
In certain situations, PD should work with FD, like in HazMat situations. And in certain places, like NYPD's Transit Bureau, should have confined space training, since going into tunnels to shoo them of transients and patrol, is part of their job.
Again, this is not a knock at LEO's, this does not apply to all LEO's, just some comparitive thoughts. I think cops in both areas do a great job at whatever they are assigned to do, I just see such a profound difference from down here to up there.

I have been on both sides of this issue.
It boils down to cooperation, working together and using common sense.
Tall orders for some!!!

Good to know you're on the job JFlynn. Helps me sleep better at night knowing that men such as yourself are standing at the ready should the need arise.

Very interesting and unique topic. Very pertinent to Elmsford too considering the amount of churches within the district that are structurally different, and throughout the entire area.
I wish I could make it up this year, but I can't. Maybe next year we can set up an EMTBravo booth, and I can make it up that way.

The Elmsford Fire Department has given BURNCARE a table at the seminar-- we appriciate the gesture form the Department and the gift that they give us each year. Their donation helps us help families that suffer from the devasting effects that haveing a loved one burned brings. We welcome all donations so dont be shy.
So stop by and see us say hello get the early flyer for our golf outing. we will have tub testers and electric out let covers to give away.
BURNCARE wishes Elmsford a sucessful seminar it has grown over the years and just keeps getting better.
Walter Ferguson
Director BURNCARE

bump.
This Memorial Seminar is this Saturday morning. Looks like an interesting topic, as always.
I will be there.

I'm coming up to the Seminar from Virginia, as we have for the last 6 or 7 years. I am a patch trader and will have a bunch with me from the department I work for in Virginia. If there are any patch traders out there coming to the seminar, please bring one to trade. I will be with the Lake Monticello, Virginia group. We are usually at the front of the room at the end of the Seminar to grab a picture with the speaker. Also, look for Rich Constantino, Elmsford Ex-Chief, and he can send you in my direction. Looking forward to another great seminar and trip to New York!
Steve Elliott
Lake Monticello Volunteer Fire Department
Albemarle County, Virginia Fire Rescue

Got a couple pictures, Its cold out there and very slippery. Couldn't get anymore picture because my battery died.

Note: This is strictly our experience with Class A foam!!!
In July 2007, our department converted all of its onboard foam systems from Class B foam to Class A foam; and issued a Department SOP that Class A foam hoselines will be the first hoselines stretched at most fires, unless otherwise directed by an officer.
Engine Company preconnected foam hoselines are 2 inch, pumped at 200 PSI, with Class A foam at 0.5 percent, and equipped with automatic gallonage combination nozzles.
Class B foam is still carried on our apparatus in 5 gallon containers for use with portable eductors.
This conversion was done for the following reasons:
All of our onboard foam systems were equipped with Class B foam, which was rarely used and regularly caused system maintenance problems.
A neighboring department reported remarkable success with Class A foam on vehicle and structure fires.
The added expense was not an issue, because of the very small percentages (0.5 to 1.0 percent) needed to be effective.
The department did extensive research, testing, and training to validate its implementation.
Since the above mentioned conversion, the following positive results have been observed:
The use of Class A foam at 0.5 percent on vehicle, dumpster, brush and structure fires has proven to be very effective. These fires are extinguished much more quickly, due to the foam’s penetrating and cooling properties; using much less water, with no resulting rekindles.
Quicker knockdowns with no rekindles greatly reduce firefighter stress and improve firefighter safety. Recently, we were confronted with heavy fire conditions at two structure fires and Class A foam proved most impressive. At both fires, the first hoseline stretched (2 inch Class A foam) and placed into operation darkened the fires down before the pump operator switched from tank to hydrant water.
There have been no maintenance problems since the above-mentioned conversion.
Our 2 ½ gallon pressurized water extinguishers have been supplemented with 8 ounces of Class A foam.
Class A foam at 1.0 percent has been found to be most effective for exposure protection.
Conclusion: Our current apparatus are only equipped with one foam system discharge. Future rigs will be designed with multiple foam system discharges.
From our experience there are no downsides to using Class A foam, in most situations, including the often cited criticism is that it is too expensive. At 0.5 percent, the foam is not used in great quantities: “We are only ‘topping off’ our foam tanks after every three or four uses.”
The benefits of increased firefighter safety and increased fire suppression efficiency far outweigh the costs of approximately $65 per 5 gallon container.

"Responding to 'Routine' Emergencies" by FDNY Battalion Chief Frank Montagna is an excellent read and a great book to have in your library!!!
http://www.chiefmontagna.com

Prior to the Babbitt Court address being confirmed, presumably due to incomplete information being received by cell phone call(s), 60-Control dispatched the Elmsford Fire Dept to the vicinity of Route 9-A and Paulding St. for a possible structure fire.
Once the correct address and actual fire was confirmed, off Route 9-A, just south of the Elmsford Fire District line, E-237 responded to the scene (after checking with the Incident Commander) and L-55 relocated to Fairview Fire Headquarters (60-Control dispatch: Our normal assignment on a Fairview 2nd alarm).
The E-237 crew operated at the scene, with the other units, until the fire had been brought under control; at which time they were released by the Incident Commander.
L-55 remained at Fairview Fire Headquarters until most units had returned to service; they were then released by the Incident Commander.
I hope this clarifies our role in this fire.
Syd Henry, Chief
Elmsford Fire Dept.