res6cue

"Legal" and "right" are not always the same thing. The mayor may be legally allowed to restrict the town's employees from leaving work, however it may not be the right decision.
When you consider that the municipality is ultimately responsible to ensure the provision of fire protection within that municipality (which oftentimes means using a non-municipal VFD to do so), the decision to prohibit municipal employees from responding to emergencies within the community during work hours is not necessarily the wisest of decisions.
Additionally, if the issue is ultimately paying the employee for time not actually spent at work (lost productivity), there's a couple of pretty simple solutions available. Allow them to respond, but they don't get paid for the time they are absent. Allow them to respond, but have them "make up" the lost time in some fashion. At only a 1000 or so calls per year, these employees probably aren't missing a substantial amount of time.

Are you kidding me, volunteer departments only survive because employers let the employees respond to fires/ems calls. Can you imagine the uproar in the community when those public employees no longer go on fire calls and instead the village has to PAY a fire department to respond, and the community has to pay for that. This is not about pay vs volunteer, but municipalities have to set an example and allow there employees to respond to calls if they expect other businesses to do the same. This is vital to the sustainability of the volunteer service.

this is payback for when a previous chief had him locked up for interfering with fighting operations at several structure fires about 10 years ago

Yes, although Orange County's system will mix 700 and 800 MHz frequencies on the same system for additional capacity (reusing the 800 MHz frequencies currently in use on the EDACS system). 700 and 800 MHz are considered the same band on these systems, easily intermixed.

You're comparing TDMA on a commercial cellular network to TDMA on a public safety grade P25 system...apples and oranges. Judging by your post, you've likely never experienced a P25 Phase II TDMA system with an APX radio. I have with Rockland's new system, and the fact is that Phase II TDMA with the AMBE+2 vocoder actually has better audio quality than Phase I FDMA with the IMBE vocoder. That's what it really comes down to, the quality of the vocoder determines the quality of the audio, and AMBE+2 is much improved over IMBE. Is the audio quality as good as 25 kHz analog? Of course not, no one is arguing that point. But for you to talk about signals on cell phones being bad, and somehow making the case for that being directly comparable to a P25 system, misses the mark.
No one is arguing that point. The NFPA has been warning against the use of both digital and trunking for fireground communications for years, and with good reason. Fireground communications should follow the KISS principle, and should be analog simplex, period. Rockland is leaving fireground on UHF simplex, and I suspect so will Westchester. It sounds like you're under the impression that interior ops are going to take place on a digital trunked system...that is not the case.
It cuts both ways. A well designed trunked system can actually improve coverage in some cases. How many times have guys been on portable on one of those "basic systems", and they're all static because the signal can't reach the receiver 5 miles away?
If we're going to have a discussion about these digital systems (which aren't going anywhere, by the way), let's at least be fair and deal with the facts.

You're comparing TDMA on a commercial cellular network to TDMA on a public safety grade P25 system...apples and oranges. Judging by your post, you've likely never experienced a P25 Phase II TDMA system with an APX radio. I have with Rockland's new system, and the fact is that Phase II TDMA with the AMBE+2 vocoder actually has better audio quality than Phase I FDMA with the IMBE vocoder. That's what it really comes down to, the quality of the vocoder determines the quality of the audio, and AMBE+2 is much improved over IMBE. Is the audio quality as good as 25 kHz analog? Of course not, no one is arguing that point. But for you to talk about signals on cell phones being bad, and somehow making the case for that being directly comparable to a P25 system, misses the mark.
No one is arguing that point. The NFPA has been warning against the use of both digital and trunking for fireground communications for years, and with good reason. Fireground communications should follow the KISS principle, and should be analog simplex, period. Rockland is leaving fireground on UHF simplex, and I suspect so will Westchester. It sounds like you're under the impression that interior ops are going to take place on a digital trunked system...that is not the case.
It cuts both ways. A well designed trunked system can actually improve coverage in some cases. How many times have guys been on portable on one of those "basic systems", and they're all static because the signal can't reach the receiver 5 miles away?
If we're going to have a discussion about these digital systems (which aren't going anywhere, by the way), let's at least be fair and deal with the facts.

http://www.firehouse.com/forums/t69591
http://www.dec.ny.gov/regs/4080.html#13593

The CSP system you linked to is a Motorola Type II, which is the same as the current Westchester system. The new CSERN system is P25, however it's Phase I not Phase II.
Rockland's new 700 MHz system is P25 Phase II, which is what Westchester (and Orange) are looking to implement.
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=7128
Also here: http://info.uniden.com/NewScanners

The CSP system you linked to is a Motorola Type II, which is the same as the current Westchester system. The new CSERN system is P25, however it's Phase I not Phase II.
Rockland's new 700 MHz system is P25 Phase II, which is what Westchester (and Orange) are looking to implement.
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=7128
Also here: http://info.uniden.com/NewScanners

The CSP system you linked to is a Motorola Type II, which is the same as the current Westchester system. The new CSERN system is P25, however it's Phase I not Phase II.
Rockland's new 700 MHz system is P25 Phase II, which is what Westchester (and Orange) are looking to implement.
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=7128
Also here: http://info.uniden.com/NewScanners

I believe this may have been posted somewhere else but I think it is relevant to this thread as well. For those looking into the new scanners here is the product review from Uniden:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGPEEGw5NzE

Uniden has introduced ( available January 2014) two new scanners. The BCD536HP and BCD436HP that will be P25 Phase II TDMA capable.

No, it will not. This will be a digital system, Trunk Tracker III's are only capable of scanning analog systems.
It will also need to be Phase II TDMA capable. As I type this post, the only scanner capable of that is the GRE PSR-800. Uniden is announcing new scanner models in about 2 hours, and it's expected that they will decode Phase II TDMA, but hasn't been confirmed yet. None of Uniden's current models will work on the system (HomePatrol-1, BCD396XT, BCD996XT, etc.).

FireWatch will never show every unit that responded (except for maybe a very small incident), because that is not how 44-Control logs them in CAD. Only the first responding apparatus and/or officer is logged in CAD for each incident.
When an incident is first created and appears in FireWatch, you will only see "27 Fire Department" until a unit signs in service, then you will see the ID of the first unit in service. If a piece of apparatus signs in service before an officer, you will see the rig's ID. Normally once an officer signs on the air, their ID will also be entered in CAD.
So for this incident, 16-2 signed in first, so he is the only ID noted in CAD. http://www.44-control.net/historicdetails.aspx?cfsid=-149047
For this incident, 17-Rescue signed in before 17-43, so both are logged in CAD. http://www.44-control.net/historicdetails.aspx?cfsid=-149041
Another factor is which unit establishes command or terminates command. Those will also get logged in CAD for each event.
For this call, 6-2 signed in service first, but 6-4 got on scene first and established command, so both were logged. http://www.44-control.net/historicdetails.aspx?cfsid=-149016
If you see the Base Station listed, that means someone acknowledged the call from the firehouse radio, which stops the "4 Minute Rule" countdown clock (AMA is dispatched if no one responds within 4 minutes)
Note that nothing precludes the dispatcher from logging every unit if they're inclined to do so, but it's not policy to do so.

Yes, although Orange County's system will mix 700 and 800 MHz frequencies on the same system for additional capacity (reusing the 800 MHz frequencies currently in use on the EDACS system). 700 and 800 MHz are considered the same band on these systems, easily intermixed.

The county is looking to build out a 700 MHz P25 Phase II system (same type of system as Rockland).
It will replace the current Motorola trunked system, and will have transmitters at the same 9 sites that the current trunked system occupies. Unlike the current trunked systems, there will not be "North" and "South" zones, instead it will be a simulcast system that will cover the entire county.
The system will be comprised of 12 frequencies, however because this system is Phase II and uses TDMA technology, each voice frequency gets divided into 2 time slots which allows for double the amount of voice channel capacity. The control channel occupies a full single frequency on its own, which leaves 11 frequencies available for voice transmission. TDMA technology means there will be 22 voice channels available. Contrast that with the current system, which has 12 frequencies. Because there is a North and South zone, there are 2 frequencies dedicated for each zone's control channel. That leaves just 10 frequencies for voice traffic, 5 on each zone. The new system will double that capacity + 2 additional voice channels.
For comparison, Rockland's system is a 10 site, 10 frequency simulcast (18 voice channels).

The county is looking to build out a 700 MHz P25 Phase II system (same type of system as Rockland).
It will replace the current Motorola trunked system, and will have transmitters at the same 9 sites that the current trunked system occupies. Unlike the current trunked systems, there will not be "North" and "South" zones, instead it will be a simulcast system that will cover the entire county.
The system will be comprised of 12 frequencies, however because this system is Phase II and uses TDMA technology, each voice frequency gets divided into 2 time slots which allows for double the amount of voice channel capacity. The control channel occupies a full single frequency on its own, which leaves 11 frequencies available for voice transmission. TDMA technology means there will be 22 voice channels available. Contrast that with the current system, which has 12 frequencies. Because there is a North and South zone, there are 2 frequencies dedicated for each zone's control channel. That leaves just 10 frequencies for voice traffic, 5 on each zone. The new system will double that capacity + 2 additional voice channels.
For comparison, Rockland's system is a 10 site, 10 frequency simulcast (18 voice channels).

The county is looking to build out a 700 MHz P25 Phase II system (same type of system as Rockland).
It will replace the current Motorola trunked system, and will have transmitters at the same 9 sites that the current trunked system occupies. Unlike the current trunked systems, there will not be "North" and "South" zones, instead it will be a simulcast system that will cover the entire county.
The system will be comprised of 12 frequencies, however because this system is Phase II and uses TDMA technology, each voice frequency gets divided into 2 time slots which allows for double the amount of voice channel capacity. The control channel occupies a full single frequency on its own, which leaves 11 frequencies available for voice transmission. TDMA technology means there will be 22 voice channels available. Contrast that with the current system, which has 12 frequencies. Because there is a North and South zone, there are 2 frequencies dedicated for each zone's control channel. That leaves just 10 frequencies for voice traffic, 5 on each zone. The new system will double that capacity + 2 additional voice channels.
For comparison, Rockland's system is a 10 site, 10 frequency simulcast (18 voice channels).

FireWatch will never show every unit that responded (except for maybe a very small incident), because that is not how 44-Control logs them in CAD. Only the first responding apparatus and/or officer is logged in CAD for each incident.
When an incident is first created and appears in FireWatch, you will only see "27 Fire Department" until a unit signs in service, then you will see the ID of the first unit in service. If a piece of apparatus signs in service before an officer, you will see the rig's ID. Normally once an officer signs on the air, their ID will also be entered in CAD.
So for this incident, 16-2 signed in first, so he is the only ID noted in CAD. http://www.44-control.net/historicdetails.aspx?cfsid=-149047
For this incident, 17-Rescue signed in before 17-43, so both are logged in CAD. http://www.44-control.net/historicdetails.aspx?cfsid=-149041
Another factor is which unit establishes command or terminates command. Those will also get logged in CAD for each event.
For this call, 6-2 signed in service first, but 6-4 got on scene first and established command, so both were logged. http://www.44-control.net/historicdetails.aspx?cfsid=-149016
If you see the Base Station listed, that means someone acknowledged the call from the firehouse radio, which stops the "4 Minute Rule" countdown clock (AMA is dispatched if no one responds within 4 minutes)
Note that nothing precludes the dispatcher from logging every unit if they're inclined to do so, but it's not policy to do so.

So...they buy this brand new, multi-million dollar piece of sophisticated equipment just a handful of years ago, then ground it because they don't want to pay the pilots to fly it? Brilliant.

A buddy of mine at the county says that they couldn't fly because all the pilots have been reassigned to patrol for the summer to reduce overtime. He also said overtime is out of control so it ain't working.
Way to go Westchester, ground your chopper during the busiest time of the year so you can claim to be saving money. Smart move! Remember this stupidity on election day.

More squandered grant money. No offense to you or your department but the narrowbanding issue has been coming for years and most departments simply built it into their long term plan and made it work. If they needed to buy new hardware they did it during the years we've known this was coming.
Instead of dealing with it, yours and many other departments ignored it and waited until it became a crisis and took federal dollars to fix it.
There are still departments trying to buy 2 channel portable handie-talkies for their 2 fireground frequencies instead of buying real radios that cost the same amount but can have all the interoperable frequencies and fireground frequencies put in them. More squandered opportunities.
Home rule just plain sucks because there's no standardization, no common practices or procedures, and a myriad of different radio systems, hardware, and protocols. It's just stupid that some departments refuse to align themselves with their neighbors because with their one or two calls a day they know better than everyone else.

Thanks for the kind words, Steve!
I do my best to keep NYS accurate and up-to-date on RadioReference, but obviously the database is never going to be totally perfect over there.
If any of you have any additions, changes or corrections for Westchester (or anywhere else for that matter), you can make a submission right to RadioReference (click the Submit link like I've circled in red in the attached screenshot). Or if you'd rather not make an account over there, send me a PM here and I'll work with you.

I also agree that the database at RadioReference is the place to look. Chauffeur6, the NYS database administrator, is also a member here (different screen name), and has recently finished "cleaning up" the NYS database @ RR.com. So, you should have no problem with the Westchester database.
I am seeing some issues with your list.
First, I do not see that you have the Trunked System assigned. If you do not set this System up, with it's frequencies AND custom settings, in two separate banks (one for the North Zone frequencies AND another bank with the South Zone frequencies) you will not be able to track (listen) to Fire 15 & 18, EMS 15 & 18.
Second, it would be helpful if you listed what scanner you have so that we can know the capabilities of it. Newer scanners have different features than older scanners. Older scanners (like one of mine) do not have the capabilitiy of PL/DPL tones per frequency. Newer scanners also have the capability of custom labels per frequency/talkgroup.
It would also be helpful to let us know what you would like to listen to (Fire, EMS, PD(local, County, State), DPW, Hospital). Do you only listen locally, or do you listen around the County (if you have a portable)? If portable, do you want to listen to CT, or other locations (Nassau & Suffolk)? With this input we can help you with your reprogamming.

I just posted two photos of the Iona Island firehouse from Flickr. In both cases, I used Flickr's very own "Share" links, which included the BBCode to post the full sized version of the photo itself. You mentioned "no hotlinking", however if Flickr did not intend for the photos to be shared in that manner, they clearly would not provide the tools on thier site for doing exactly that. Additionally, users on Flickr have the option of turning sharing off if they don't wish for their photos to be displayed elsewhere in that manner.
http://www.flickr.com/help/sharing/
I realize you guys are trying to cover your butts when it comes to copyright infringement, however when sites like Flickr make these sharing tools readily available, and even encourage their use, that has to factor in to any policies you're going to try to enforce. Just my 2 cents.