thebreeze

Our national deficit gets hashed, rehashed, and beaten to death every year. Doesn't seem like we have found a solution for that yet either so I guess we should just give up dialogue about it? Talking about something isn't solving a problem but its a means with which to start the ball rolling in order to effect change. What I think are some fairly egregious breaches of the public trust have been discussed here and for the most part everyone seems to either find no fault with it or wishes to turn a blind eye and hope it will either go away or someone else will deal with it. Well change comes from within and if you really care about the job you are supposed to be doing then maybe you should get involved in the discussion. Not only here but maybe the next time you are at the firehouse and everyone is getting ready for the parade. Maybe you may want to interrupt someone from shining the tires and say, "hey, who and what is going to be here while everyone else is 25 minutes away?" Especially if you plan on staying back, because you don't want to be the one standing there holding your hat trying to explain to a taxpayer why a fire in their garbage can that should have been out in minutes is now the Great Dustbin Conflagration of 2011. I understand staffing in the volunteer service is tough, and you'd be hard put to come by a district that can meet NFPA standards 24/7. I also understand that for the most part we all try to do our best to remedy this situation and whether many of you like to admit it or not we all know its a problem. My real problem with parades is that when we already know there is a problem, many of us actively take part in making it worse, and even if its just for a few days a year, thats too many. If you really want to go to parades that badly why don't you get several departments together, hash out how man guys each department can spare without compromising staffing( at least not any worse than a normal day), acquire a parade rig (I am sure one of the departments you band together with at least has a spare if not an antique), and all march together. For those of you who want to bring company pride and respect into this, company pride isn't something you can be awarded by a judge for walking down the street. Its not something the public is going to judge you on or give to you. Its the respect you're going to get from other companies and departments who see you doing your job and doing it well.

I don't think it is at all reasonable to compare the history of Westchester County Emergency Services to the history of any of those cities departments, and it is simply absurd to compare it to art in general, or history as a whole. Thats like comparing visiting the Museum of Natural History with stopping at a truck stop that has the worlds biggest ball of twine. Even with the rich history of the cities you mentioned, their museums aren't worth more than a few hours, or more than one visit. Does everything that has happened need a museum? Does every facet of society that has advanced in the past 200 odd years need its own museum, and if so do we need one of these museums for every geographical subdivision? No, because national, well established, well funded, and professionally run museums take on the task of representing all these things as a whole for the entire nation. It's a great idea for individual departments to preserve their own history as they see fit, so as to pass it on down to their future members, thats called tradition. Just like you would keep family heirlooms and keepsakes to pass on to your own children to teach them about their families history. History, tradition, and understanding the sacrifices of those who came before you are important parts of the fire service and all emergency services. The place for handing down these things to future generations however, is not in a museum, but in the fire house, during training, or while critiquing a call. The senior men need to pass these things on, and the junior members need to pick the brains of these senior guys or all the tradition that makes our jobs great will disappear.

I am a volunteer, and if it isn't already obvious, I don't like going to parades. Sounds like I just got up and addressed a room of parade haters anonymous. The only agenda I have here is to get people to take a look within their own departments and evaluate what the actual priorities are. Whats more important, going to parades, or ensuring that your community has the best possible coverage day and night? As for those of you who say you have better coverage on days with parades I find this pretty disturbing, where are these people the rest of the time? Why is a day with a parade more important to cover? My point is that everyone seems to get so geared up for parade season but when it comes to important issues like manpower and response times most everyone throws up a wall and doesn't really want to discuss it or immediately starts calling it a volly bashing. To the people that make sure they have adequate coverage on the day of a parade, why don't you do this everyday, and to the people who don't ensure coverage, well like BNechis said, why are you even there at all? As far as this being a paid vs volunteer debate I really don't see how you could make that assertion. The practice of taking units and members out of service, and out of district, for a parade, is as far as I know exclusive to the volunteer service. I don't know of any career departments that follow this practice, this isn't a paid vs. career issue, this is a topic meant to get you thinking about where your priorities should be, and where they actually are.

(Also I did not in fact know how to search, I'll try it out if I ever create another thread)

Just because it was asked before doesn't mean it was answered, in previous threads it was mostly people just trying to defend what their departments do rather than answer the actual question, which leads me to believe that they have their own doubts about their own departments practices. StopGoBlue, I appreciate your response, sounds pretty reasonable in terms of apparatus depending on how far away the parade is, however, saying plenty of manpower doesn't really specifically address my question as to how many interior members are available. Sounds like you come from a fairly large department and are lucky enough to have a large membership, a better way to ask for you may be to address what percentage of your interior qualfied firefighters attend the parade and what percentage are actually available to provide coverage back at home.

Its that time of the year again, time to leave your district with little or no coverage to make people in another district( sometimes far enough away to be in a different area code/county/state) think that you have a full fledged state of the art firefighting force. Little do they know that what they see is usually all you have, and as for for coverage back home there may as well be a few cows wandering around the empty bays in your firehouse. Don't jump on me right away, I have seen things like this go on in a few different departments. My question to all of you who are so eager to share parade dates and shine each others brass is; when you go out of district, what apparatus do you take, who do you take, what rigs do you leave behind, who stays in the district, and what percentage of your those people who stay behind are interior firefighters? Just curious.

With everything that is going on today in the fire service the last thing we should be worrying about is a museum. There isn't enough money to go around as it is, and anyone with the free time to contribute to a museum could use that time to lobby for things that we actually need in the fire service. If we keep wasting our time on things like this that are trivial to our profession we are going to be creating some new exhibits for this museum. Hey kids look at the adequate staffing exhibit, that was back when we worried about manpower and doing our job safely and effectively. How about an exhibit detailing all the things we fought for and then rolled over and slept while they were taken away, like good benefits, collective bargaining rights, merit based employment, and presumptive health bills. People have it out for the fire service right now and we need to focus on protecting what we have fought for rather than waste time and money waxing nostalgic about what used to be. Take care of the futures of you and your brothers before you worry about all the buffs who want to gawk at an antique pumper. Tradition is great and its an important part of the fire service and emergency services in general, but we need to protect ourselves and the profession that has allowed this tradition to be passed on otherwise it is going to disappear forever.

So it's SOP for FDNY to reverse lay? i.e. pull upto the fire building, pull 3"(?) out of the back in front of the door, and lay in to the hydrant, and make a short hydrant connection?

Second question, the high-rise packs on the side of the engine, that gets hooked up to the end of the lay and goes into the building? Or does the supply hose go to the fire floor? (assuming there is no standpipe).

Not criticizing, just curious because most of us work with crosslays.

SOP is for the engine to stop with the back of the rig parallel to the entrance to the fire building, the men then stretch 1 3/4" or 2 1/2" into the building depending on the size and nature of the fire. The chauffeur then drives to the hydrant and connects or if this is not possible (because a truck blocked him out) he can be supplied or stretch 3 1/2" back to a previous hydrant. FDNY uses dead lays, nothing is preconnected, it is up to the control man to determine how much hose is needed, pull it, break the line, give it to the chauffeur and provide the chauffeur with the details of the stretch. The high rise packs are for use in high rise buildings with standpipe systems. These standpipe systems are supplied by either a gravity tank on the roof or a main fed pump, all of these systems can also be supplemented by an engine streching 3 1/2" hose to the siamese connection.

Everything I said can be seen clearly in this video, the engine is parked with the men out of the rig prior to the trucks arrival, as far as hydrants, its NYC, you won't be searching too long for another one if you do the right thing and don't get locked into your tunnel vision, what else can't be seen from the video?

What is the alternative in terms of engine placement? 3 pt turn? I can't see the detail of the lay from my phone, but isn't there a discharge on the officer's side if that was a concern?

Also, what is the point of laying on the horn once the trucks pull up? Is it to help alert the residents that there is a fire?

The engine was there prior to the trucks arrival, since the preferable method for stretching is straight off the back towards the fire building the engine chauffeur should pull past the building, someone once said "hydrants before the building don't exist", meaning the chauffeur should notice them but only consider them as a last option, often times the chauffeur sees the fire, gets tunnel vision and thinks he has to take the first hydrant he sees. It's always preferable to pull up to the building with the back step even with the door to the building, then once the men begin the stretch the chauffeur can fly to the next hydrant.

This is not text book, the engine is facing the wrong way, forcing the men to stretch around the rig, the truck and engine are nosed into one another, if the engine chauffeur had a bad hydrant he is now screwed and either has to back stretch 3 1/2" by hand to another hydrant or be supplied, and as far as the few guys you see RUNNING, slow down, act like you've done this before, can't help anyone if you break your back slipping on ice. Aside from that, good aerial placement, and this really isn't a long stretch at all, 5 lengths maybe 6 for good luck. Every stretch is harder without that fifth man though, 2nd due engine comes into play huge here, especially with the hassle of stretching around the rig.