thebreeze

Why doesn't City Hall leave the decision making to people who have a clue about policing and let the members of the NYPD do their jobs and then stand behind them an support them? I know that's just an insane notion though, right?

What are you talking about!? This isn't an issue of 5 points! This is an issue of denying someone a job without cause. This ALSO isn't about anyone else. This is a guy who had every endorsement from the mayor to the police chief and down to the citizens of the village. The outward appearance here is that he was denied because of petty political infighting. The veteran aspect helps draw positive attention to this issue, positive for the candidate and I'm glad he's using it to his advantage.
Could there be a valid reason for passing this guy over, legally? Sure could. If there is, then why don't these 4 trustees just come out and say it. From the outside looking in, the silence is awful telling.
Lastly, on a personal note....your comments thus far are quite telling of your character. Degradation of the commitments of those who serve in the military is disgusting. Self gratification? I work with guys who have multiple purple hearts....and the scars to prove it. Come on over and tell them about their self importance and see how long you stay standing on your two feet. Standing in the line of fire, taking bullets and shrapnel and living with the fear of death everyday seems like an awful lot to do for 5 measly points on some civil service test. Although....in your eyes, they don't deserve special recognition. Well, keep enjoying football Sunday and holiday's with your family....don't worry, no one had to sacrifice for you to have those comforts.
Veterans working on Wall Street....guess what? You put military service on an application for ANY job and you get a leg up....deservedly so.
Love how you threw a jab at Volly's in there too. That is a SYSTEM with some problems, but filled with a majority a well intention'd people.
Enjoy your comforts, paycheck and straight 8's in Eastchester.
Love,
The U.S. Armed Forces
Vet credits are actually given to anyone who serves in any capacity. Obviously, there is a differentiation of an additional 5 points for those who are combat wounded.

Why doesn't City Hall leave the decision making to people who have a clue about policing and let the members of the NYPD do their jobs and then stand behind them an support them? I know that's just an insane notion though, right?

Why doesn't City Hall leave the decision making to people who have a clue about policing and let the members of the NYPD do their jobs and then stand behind them an support them? I know that's just an insane notion though, right?

First, I work on the greatest job on earth, I'm blessed more than I could possibly imagine, my career is not the issue but thanks for talking out of your behind again. I will reiterate, yes he is more important than them, because while they, and you, and I, were home here enjoying freedom, he was overseas fighting for it. I worked my balls off to get my job, but I never begrudged a single person who went before me because they sacrificed their time and safety to fight for mine, and as I go forward I will applaud those who jump over me on promotion lists because of their veterans points. They DESERVE it, in fact they deserve more than this country currently gives them. The veterans points is a mere drop in a bucket for what they actually deserve. I'm over myself, I appreciate the value of others service above myself, whereas apparently you lack the ability to understand that you might not be the most deserving of something, guess you got jumped by a few vets at some point. Maybe you should have studied harder, been smarter, or served in the military and you wouldn't be so bitter.
Matt

First, I work on the greatest job on earth, I'm blessed more than I could possibly imagine, my career is not the issue but thanks for talking out of your behind again. I will reiterate, yes he is more important than them, because while they, and you, and I, were home here enjoying freedom, he was overseas fighting for it. I worked my balls off to get my job, but I never begrudged a single person who went before me because they sacrificed their time and safety to fight for mine, and as I go forward I will applaud those who jump over me on promotion lists because of their veterans points. They DESERVE it, in fact they deserve more than this country currently gives them. The veterans points is a mere drop in a bucket for what they actually deserve. I'm over myself, I appreciate the value of others service above myself, whereas apparently you lack the ability to understand that you might not be the most deserving of something, guess you got jumped by a few vets at some point. Maybe you should have studied harder, been smarter, or served in the military and you wouldn't be so bitter.
Matt

Aside from the BS small town politics:What makes him different is that, HE SERVED HIS COUNTRY IN THE MILITARY, SO YES HE IS MORE SPECIAL. It's sad that people like you, with ideas like this who want to enjoy all the freedoms we are afforded, and the status this country has in the world, but don't want to appreciate the men and women who ensure that freedom. The veterans credit isn't awarded arbitrarily, it's points that are deserved and rightly so. Get over yourself and start appreciating the sacrifices some have made so you can live the beautiful, easy, free from fear life that we all enjoy because of their efforts.

I don't think you are fully comprehending what the situation appears to be.
I can't speak to the specific civil service laws involved in this situation, but yes, typically they allow for the selection of one of the top 3 candidates on the established civil service eligibility list. In smaller communities, that selection is typically made by the Mayor or City Manager type position depending on the political structure in place. I get the impression that their system is set up in a fashion that the board votes to confirm the Mayor's selection.
In this situation, it appears that this person was #1 on the eligibility list and WAS selected from among those 3 top candidates. He was NOT simply passed over for selection in favor of one of the other two top candidates. Civil Service testing is typically conducted by a Civil Service Commission which typically does not include local government officials such as Mayors and City Council/Board members. As such, they would not know if he had a "bad interview" unless they somehow "score" the interviews, but if they score the interviews, then it really isn't an interview, it's an oral test.
Since it appears that the board votes to approve the Mayor's selections from the Civil Service list, the board's involvement in the hiring process may actually take place beyond the confines of the Civil Service system. If that's the case, then this certainly wouldn't be a matter of being passed over in the pick one of the top 3 phase, but rather a deliberate decision to deny employment and he would have a pretty good case.
The enactment of Civil Service laws were a direct result of this kind of government misconduct in the hiring process. The reason they didn't approve his selection is so blatantly obvious, that even a blind person could see it.

First, I work on the greatest job on earth, I'm blessed more than I could possibly imagine, my career is not the issue but thanks for talking out of your behind again. I will reiterate, yes he is more important than them, because while they, and you, and I, were home here enjoying freedom, he was overseas fighting for it. I worked my balls off to get my job, but I never begrudged a single person who went before me because they sacrificed their time and safety to fight for mine, and as I go forward I will applaud those who jump over me on promotion lists because of their veterans points. They DESERVE it, in fact they deserve more than this country currently gives them. The veterans points is a mere drop in a bucket for what they actually deserve. I'm over myself, I appreciate the value of others service above myself, whereas apparently you lack the ability to understand that you might not be the most deserving of something, guess you got jumped by a few vets at some point. Maybe you should have studied harder, been smarter, or served in the military and you wouldn't be so bitter.
Matt

First, I work on the greatest job on earth, I'm blessed more than I could possibly imagine, my career is not the issue but thanks for talking out of your behind again. I will reiterate, yes he is more important than them, because while they, and you, and I, were home here enjoying freedom, he was overseas fighting for it. I worked my balls off to get my job, but I never begrudged a single person who went before me because they sacrificed their time and safety to fight for mine, and as I go forward I will applaud those who jump over me on promotion lists because of their veterans points. They DESERVE it, in fact they deserve more than this country currently gives them. The veterans points is a mere drop in a bucket for what they actually deserve. I'm over myself, I appreciate the value of others service above myself, whereas apparently you lack the ability to understand that you might not be the most deserving of something, guess you got jumped by a few vets at some point. Maybe you should have studied harder, been smarter, or served in the military and you wouldn't be so bitter.
Matt

Aside from the BS small town politics:What makes him different is that, HE SERVED HIS COUNTRY IN THE MILITARY, SO YES HE IS MORE SPECIAL. It's sad that people like you, with ideas like this who want to enjoy all the freedoms we are afforded, and the status this country has in the world, but don't want to appreciate the men and women who ensure that freedom. The veterans credit isn't awarded arbitrarily, it's points that are deserved and rightly so. Get over yourself and start appreciating the sacrifices some have made so you can live the beautiful, easy, free from fear life that we all enjoy because of their efforts.

First, I work on the greatest job on earth, I'm blessed more than I could possibly imagine, my career is not the issue but thanks for talking out of your behind again. I will reiterate, yes he is more important than them, because while they, and you, and I, were home here enjoying freedom, he was overseas fighting for it. I worked my balls off to get my job, but I never begrudged a single person who went before me because they sacrificed their time and safety to fight for mine, and as I go forward I will applaud those who jump over me on promotion lists because of their veterans points. They DESERVE it, in fact they deserve more than this country currently gives them. The veterans points is a mere drop in a bucket for what they actually deserve. I'm over myself, I appreciate the value of others service above myself, whereas apparently you lack the ability to understand that you might not be the most deserving of something, guess you got jumped by a few vets at some point. Maybe you should have studied harder, been smarter, or served in the military and you wouldn't be so bitter.
Matt

First, I work on the greatest job on earth, I'm blessed more than I could possibly imagine, my career is not the issue but thanks for talking out of your behind again. I will reiterate, yes he is more important than them, because while they, and you, and I, were home here enjoying freedom, he was overseas fighting for it. I worked my balls off to get my job, but I never begrudged a single person who went before me because they sacrificed their time and safety to fight for mine, and as I go forward I will applaud those who jump over me on promotion lists because of their veterans points. They DESERVE it, in fact they deserve more than this country currently gives them. The veterans points is a mere drop in a bucket for what they actually deserve. I'm over myself, I appreciate the value of others service above myself, whereas apparently you lack the ability to understand that you might not be the most deserving of something, guess you got jumped by a few vets at some point. Maybe you should have studied harder, been smarter, or served in the military and you wouldn't be so bitter.
Matt

Why doesn't City Hall leave the decision making to people who have a clue about policing and let the members of the NYPD do their jobs and then stand behind them an support them? I know that's just an insane notion though, right?

Aside from the BS small town politics:What makes him different is that, HE SERVED HIS COUNTRY IN THE MILITARY, SO YES HE IS MORE SPECIAL. It's sad that people like you, with ideas like this who want to enjoy all the freedoms we are afforded, and the status this country has in the world, but don't want to appreciate the men and women who ensure that freedom. The veterans credit isn't awarded arbitrarily, it's points that are deserved and rightly so. Get over yourself and start appreciating the sacrifices some have made so you can live the beautiful, easy, free from fear life that we all enjoy because of their efforts.

Aside from the BS small town politics:What makes him different is that, HE SERVED HIS COUNTRY IN THE MILITARY, SO YES HE IS MORE SPECIAL. It's sad that people like you, with ideas like this who want to enjoy all the freedoms we are afforded, and the status this country has in the world, but don't want to appreciate the men and women who ensure that freedom. The veterans credit isn't awarded arbitrarily, it's points that are deserved and rightly so. Get over yourself and start appreciating the sacrifices some have made so you can live the beautiful, easy, free from fear life that we all enjoy because of their efforts.

Aside from the BS small town politics:What makes him different is that, HE SERVED HIS COUNTRY IN THE MILITARY, SO YES HE IS MORE SPECIAL. It's sad that people like you, with ideas like this who want to enjoy all the freedoms we are afforded, and the status this country has in the world, but don't want to appreciate the men and women who ensure that freedom. The veterans credit isn't awarded arbitrarily, it's points that are deserved and rightly so. Get over yourself and start appreciating the sacrifices some have made so you can live the beautiful, easy, free from fear life that we all enjoy because of their efforts.

Why doesn't City Hall leave the decision making to people who have a clue about policing and let the members of the NYPD do their jobs and then stand behind them an support them? I know that's just an insane notion though, right?

Why doesn't City Hall leave the decision making to people who have a clue about policing and let the members of the NYPD do their jobs and then stand behind them an support them? I know that's just an insane notion though, right?

Why doesn't City Hall leave the decision making to people who have a clue about policing and let the members of the NYPD do their jobs and then stand behind them an support them? I know that's just an insane notion though, right?

Dinosaur, I guess you are not a veteran! This man gave up 6 years of his life for his country and his home town. He does deserve more!

I absolutely disagree that everyone caught doing something wrong is a "dirty officer". Good people caught up in bad high pressure situations make mistakes sometimes. You're not in their shoes and you can't experience what they are going through at that moment. The idea of making chokeholds illegal is a little extreme. You can't absolutely say that it would ever ever be necessary to use in order for a police officer to protect himself or others. Would you rather they use lethal force? Or will they soon try to take guns away from the police too? Sure make chokeholds against policy, that's fine, and if it happens, review the incident as much as possible, discipline the officer in a manner commensurate with the findings of the investigation, a little if it seems it may have been justified or a last resort, a lot if it seems flagrant abuse. As for video taping, you can't stop it, nor should you, but if it's going to be used as evidence it should be required that the videos must be presented in their entirety, unedited. In fact if it is going to be considered evidence the person video taping it should be required to turn their phone over to the police as evidence or at least the unedited footage, it should then have to follow all the procedures and rules established for the chain of evidence.

It's a no no when anyone, who is supposed to be operating at a fire scene, is taking pictures instead. Paid or volunteer, I don't think anyone is stopping during an operation to take group shots. If so shame on them. You obviously have an axe to grind with the FDNY but there's a legion of buffs who follow them around taking pictures, is that so wrong? No one is "grandstanding", and guys take pictures together after a job? There's nothing wrong with that on either side of the fence. You're ignorant if you think that guys are just out for 3/4, it's not an FDNY problem, there are just as many skells in every job, FD, PD, EMS, nameless other civil service jobs, and even the private sector who are just out to get theirs, to bilk the system and sit on their a-- collecting checks. I'm sure as a NYCMEDIC you see plenty of people abusing every system out there. Quit whining like you know what's going on if you want to ignore that larger truth about people and society as a whole, there are dregs everywhere.
As far as who calls themselves a fireman, it's all about training. I wouldn't go as far as to say most volunteers are capable, a good amount definitely, career guys with more training, sure there are still some useless ones but not quite as many. Their are plenty of useless EMTS and Medics out there too, and police officers on the rubber gun squad, we all know at least one or two. Being paid isn't the difference, training and ability is the difference. If someone said they just wanted to volunteer and help, had no training and about all they knew how to do was put on a bandaid, would you let them run around and call themselves paramedics, stick needles in people's arms, intubate, and give drugs. Oh and would you respect them more because it was free? Do you respect volunteer medics more than yourself? Or guys who just do it for less even? I know I know, there are licensing and education requirements for paramedics, but then following that logic, shouldn't the same kind of standards exist for firemen too? Go ahead though and think it's the fact that someone who does something for free deserves respect rather than someone who actually cares about being good at their profession and knows what they are doing, be it career or volunteer.
One more aside, it seems to be very common that the people who are the most inept and incapable, are the ones who don't realize this fact at all.

It's a no no when anyone, who is supposed to be operating at a fire scene, is taking pictures instead. Paid or volunteer, I don't think anyone is stopping during an operation to take group shots. If so shame on them. You obviously have an axe to grind with the FDNY but there's a legion of buffs who follow them around taking pictures, is that so wrong? No one is "grandstanding", and guys take pictures together after a job? There's nothing wrong with that on either side of the fence. You're ignorant if you think that guys are just out for 3/4, it's not an FDNY problem, there are just as many skells in every job, FD, PD, EMS, nameless other civil service jobs, and even the private sector who are just out to get theirs, to bilk the system and sit on their a-- collecting checks. I'm sure as a NYCMEDIC you see plenty of people abusing every system out there. Quit whining like you know what's going on if you want to ignore that larger truth about people and society as a whole, there are dregs everywhere.
As far as who calls themselves a fireman, it's all about training. I wouldn't go as far as to say most volunteers are capable, a good amount definitely, career guys with more training, sure there are still some useless ones but not quite as many. Their are plenty of useless EMTS and Medics out there too, and police officers on the rubber gun squad, we all know at least one or two. Being paid isn't the difference, training and ability is the difference. If someone said they just wanted to volunteer and help, had no training and about all they knew how to do was put on a bandaid, would you let them run around and call themselves paramedics, stick needles in people's arms, intubate, and give drugs. Oh and would you respect them more because it was free? Do you respect volunteer medics more than yourself? Or guys who just do it for less even? I know I know, there are licensing and education requirements for paramedics, but then following that logic, shouldn't the same kind of standards exist for firemen too? Go ahead though and think it's the fact that someone who does something for free deserves respect rather than someone who actually cares about being good at their profession and knows what they are doing, be it career or volunteer.
One more aside, it seems to be very common that the people who are the most inept and incapable, are the ones who don't realize this fact at all.

It's a no no when anyone, who is supposed to be operating at a fire scene, is taking pictures instead. Paid or volunteer, I don't think anyone is stopping during an operation to take group shots. If so shame on them. You obviously have an axe to grind with the FDNY but there's a legion of buffs who follow them around taking pictures, is that so wrong? No one is "grandstanding", and guys take pictures together after a job? There's nothing wrong with that on either side of the fence. You're ignorant if you think that guys are just out for 3/4, it's not an FDNY problem, there are just as many skells in every job, FD, PD, EMS, nameless other civil service jobs, and even the private sector who are just out to get theirs, to bilk the system and sit on their a-- collecting checks. I'm sure as a NYCMEDIC you see plenty of people abusing every system out there. Quit whining like you know what's going on if you want to ignore that larger truth about people and society as a whole, there are dregs everywhere.
As far as who calls themselves a fireman, it's all about training. I wouldn't go as far as to say most volunteers are capable, a good amount definitely, career guys with more training, sure there are still some useless ones but not quite as many. Their are plenty of useless EMTS and Medics out there too, and police officers on the rubber gun squad, we all know at least one or two. Being paid isn't the difference, training and ability is the difference. If someone said they just wanted to volunteer and help, had no training and about all they knew how to do was put on a bandaid, would you let them run around and call themselves paramedics, stick needles in people's arms, intubate, and give drugs. Oh and would you respect them more because it was free? Do you respect volunteer medics more than yourself? Or guys who just do it for less even? I know I know, there are licensing and education requirements for paramedics, but then following that logic, shouldn't the same kind of standards exist for firemen too? Go ahead though and think it's the fact that someone who does something for free deserves respect rather than someone who actually cares about being good at their profession and knows what they are doing, be it career or volunteer.
One more aside, it seems to be very common that the people who are the most inept and incapable, are the ones who don't realize this fact at all.