nfd2004

This is an EXCELLENT idea and an EXCELLENT opportunity.  It's been done in many other places across the country as well.
 
A chance to further your education
A chance to serve this community
A chance to have a place to live at no cost
A chance for those interested in the fire service to continue while going to school
 
A WIN/WIN for ALL. I just wish they had something like this when I was younger.

 
 Sir, yes I am aware of how things went just prior to the merger of the NHRFD. That's why I used it to make my point.
 
 So when do these other places start ? And who throws in the white hat and collar pins to say, "Yes, I'm ready to do the right thing" ? "I care more about the people I am assigned to protect, than my own self image". Lets put that FIRST QUESTION out there. Whoever it is I will stand and salute. Those are really Great Leaders who are willing to do that for OTHERS. Therefore, let the Leaders take the Lead. Let them be the first to show us how important regionalization is for the fire service today.
 
 That is how we can begin.

 
 Sir, yes I am aware of how things went just prior to the merger of the NHRFD. That's why I used it to make my point.
 
 So when do these other places start ? And who throws in the white hat and collar pins to say, "Yes, I'm ready to do the right thing" ? "I care more about the people I am assigned to protect, than my own self image". Lets put that FIRST QUESTION out there. Whoever it is I will stand and salute. Those are really Great Leaders who are willing to do that for OTHERS. Therefore, let the Leaders take the Lead. Let them be the first to show us how important regionalization is for the fire service today.
 
 That is how we can begin.

 
 Sir, yes I am aware of how things went just prior to the merger of the NHRFD. That's why I used it to make my point.
 
 So when do these other places start ? And who throws in the white hat and collar pins to say, "Yes, I'm ready to do the right thing" ? "I care more about the people I am assigned to protect, than my own self image". Lets put that FIRST QUESTION out there. Whoever it is I will stand and salute. Those are really Great Leaders who are willing to do that for OTHERS. Therefore, let the Leaders take the Lead. Let them be the first to show us how important regionalization is for the fire service today.
 
 That is how we can begin.

To get a good idea of how well things are working out in a regional or county fire department, we really don't have to go too far. Just across the Hudson River from New York is the "Northern Hudson Regional Fire Dept". There a group of totally independent fire depts. merged together to become one. That really didn't happen too long ago either.
 
 Compare that to the place of my home town which led to the thread here of "The Fractured Fire Service of Norwich, Ct". In a small Connecticut city of about 40,000, a total of SIX separate fire departments. One career, and five volunteer cover this small city. Each with their own chiefs, deputy chiefs, captains etc. Each with it's own fleet of fire apparatus. Three or four Heavy Rescues, Three Ladder Trucks, Numerous Engines, and various special types of apparatus. No problem here with somebody missing out on riding on the first rig. Usually there's plenty more to choose from if the first has left. If this ONE Town merged its six fire departments into one, how much could these taxpayers save in equipment alone ? Of course would they really need six fire chiefs, each hoping to defend their own power and title ?
 
 And this is NOT the only place like this. In fact, most places I know are like this, rather than the well managed Fairfax or LA County FDs.
 
 As a group of individuals, we all know what the real problem is. The reality is its pretty tough to tell somebody, "you lost your title". We really don't need so many separate leaders. And we sure don't need this many fire trucks. We are NOT talking about busing school kids from one place to another. We are referring solely to the operations of the fire department.  
 
 I think "SECTMB" presented a very good idea here in his post. That of providing alternate duty crews backing up a primary duty crew. Something that seems to becoming a necessary thing these days. I think it's a pretty good idea.
 
 What might NOT be in the best interest for the members, might actually be in the best interest for the people they serve.

Fire depts. work for the citizens NOT THEMSELVES.
 
In most cases, consolidation is the ANSWER and NOT the PROBLEM. Some of the most progressive fire departments in the country started out decades ago when they decided to consolidate. Places like Fairfax County, Va., Dade County, Fla., as well as the Los Angeles County, Ca. Fire Dept. The once highly popular TV Show of the 1970s called "Emergency" was based on that L.A. County FD. A very well run fire dept. They also introduced us to the term "paramedic". Something that many of us in this part of the country had never heard of before.
 
 It makes sense for many smaller fire departments to merge into one. Not only does it make sense, but it may also give a better ISO (Insurance Services Office) Rating, which could have a large impact on what businesses pay out for insurance coverage.
 
 What holds a lot of places back is just what has been reported. Everybody may not get to ride on a fire truck. Also, some may have to give up their white hats and collar pins. But usually there is an overall greater improvement within the fire service at a much better cost to the people they serve. Looking beyond the smaller individual fire depts. or fire districts, compared to the much larger merged fire depts will prove to be a very good move.

For the most part, I agree with your message, but have a few thoughts and questions....
 
1) Was the Eastchester Captain in charge of the whole shift at the time of the incident or just the station nearest the incident?
 
2) Are Eastchester and Scarsdale on the same dispatch channel?
 
3) I'm not familiar with the area, but if the map at the beginning of the thread is accurate, it looks like the location of the fire is very close to the Eastchester/Scarsdale border and possibly within sight of the Eastchester station.  As such, I could easily see a situation where Eastchester units started to the incident thinking it could possibly be in their area, particularly if they aren't on the same dispatch channel.
 
4) The media is notorious for misreporting, misrepresenting or misquoting things.  As such, their statement of what happened may not fully represent what actually happened.
 
5) I have some difficulty with the use of the term "freelancing" in this particular context.  My understanding of the definition for freelancing is essentially doing a task or taking an action without communication or coordination of such.  There's a fair bit of detail about this not readily available to draw informed conclusions, but in general, I wouldn't consider investigating signs of a possible fire nearby to be freelancing, even if doing so happened to take you a couple blocks into the next town.  Once on scene, as the initial arriving unit(s), as long as they communicated that they were on scene, going to work and subsequently worked within whatever command structure that was established, I wouldn't necessarily call that freelancing and wouldn't necessarily call it operating without accountability.

While I get that self dispatching should be frowned upon with the information provided with the assigned Scarsdale engine unavailable Eastchester did the right thing self dispatching to save a life.  Had the fire been in another section of Scarsdale then no.  I am sure the Capt. in Eastchester knew that and should be commended for his action.

We have similar issues in my area.  I agree, more is definitely better.  Just pointing out that many of us on the career side don't have the option to wait a couple minutes for more personnel to arrive before responding.  Some of us are fighting just to maintain the understaffing that we already deal with.
 
I've read up on some of that research, but I don't recall reading about any scenarios where they studied two 2 man crews.  Would you happen to have a link or something off hand for that part?  I'd be interested in reading that.
 
I don't dispute the findings of that research, but I also have a good bit of experience with responding to fires understaffed and know what we're often able to accomplish while the cavalry assembles.  So while not ideal, a crew of 2 (experienced, competent FFs) is not pointless like insinuated above.

While certainly not ideal, a competent and experienced crew of two arriving quickly can have a positive effect on many incidents rather than a unit with more staffing arriving a few or several minutes later.
 
I've spent the majority of my career (the paid part) working on an engine staffed with only 2.  We've been able to have 3 at times over the last few years.  Several years ago now, we had a 2 man crew arrive first at a working fire and execute a ladder rescue of a trapped victim prior to arrival of other units.  That gentleman knows what the point would be.  You'd be surprised at what we've accomplished at some incidents. 

Acceptable, NO.  Unfortunate reality for many, YES.
 
Yes, but I bet that a 2 man crew arriving quickly, followed by an additional 2 man crew (or more) a couple of minutes after also outperformed a single 2 man crew and probably did at least as well as that 4 man crew arriving together minutes later.

Here is a story about how things are going with the KMEs in Stamford. However, this article states HMEs.
 
www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Firefighters-concerned-about-fleet-4433913.php

 
Okay, thank you. I wasn't sure.

 
 My guess would be that it might be better managed today, just for the fact that there are more people involved in it. The same as the merger of the Transit police and Housing police into the NYPD. Before that they were three separate organizations.
 
 The FDNY/EMS faces the same challenges today as they did back then. A totally overwhelmed system abused by so many. Yet the life savors of so many others. I continue to have the highest amount of respect for this very dedicated group of people. Those who continue to provide a vital service to the citizens, the commuters, as well as the many tourist throughout that huge city we know of as New York City.
 
 Two incidents I recall while buffing the FDNY in NYC. Both with a 2 hour delay before being able to get an ambulance assigned - premerger days. This was NOT the fault of those out there working as a medic or EMT in the streets. But just a totally over loaded system. This was also pre cellphone days.
 
 The first was when somebody called from a store for an ambulance for an elderly lady who fell on the ice. Freezing weather while this poor old woman laid on the ground waiting for an ambulance. No fire truck either because they were just too busy fighting the staggering numbers of fires at that time. Maybe she had a broken hip. All we could do is cover her with our coats.
 
 The second was a guy having a seizure. We had stopped to help him. Just as we did, a police car passed by. They radioed for an ambulance but they too were told it was a two hour delay before the first ambulance could get there. So we put him in the back of the police car and they took him to the hospital. No vitals taken etc.
 
 There were even times when injured firefighters were transported on the hose beds of fire trucks rather than wait for an ambulance.
 
 At times it was just impossible to get an ambulance.
 
 There's four more parts to the original video posted. If anybody needs them posted here, let us know.

Prior to the merger of the NYC EMS into the FDNY, this is the way it was. These EMTs and Paramedics were the HEROS and DOCTORS of the streets in the LARGEST city in America, New York City.
 
Throughout the five boros, it was these trained and skilled workers that kept so many people alive. People alive today who might not have been if not for them.
 
They very seldom received credit for the work they did. Yet they were out there every single day, 24/7, working for basically low to moderate salaries.
 
As a FDNY buff, I watched these people work under some very difficult conditions. This was NOT a job for everybody, but for those who did it, "I have the HIGHEST RESPECT FOR". THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE PEOPLE of the CITY of NEW YORK.
 
 Here is Part 1 of a Five Parts series produced by the A & E History Channel. It's called: "Emergency - EMS to the Rescue".
 
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXQfuwbUtk4

Prior to the merger of the NYC EMS into the FDNY, this is the way it was. These EMTs and Paramedics were the HEROS and DOCTORS of the streets in the LARGEST city in America, New York City.
 
Throughout the five boros, it was these trained and skilled workers that kept so many people alive. People alive today who might not have been if not for them.
 
They very seldom received credit for the work they did. Yet they were out there every single day, 24/7, working for basically low to moderate salaries.
 
As a FDNY buff, I watched these people work under some very difficult conditions. This was NOT a job for everybody, but for those who did it, "I have the HIGHEST RESPECT FOR". THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE PEOPLE of the CITY of NEW YORK.
 
 Here is Part 1 of a Five Parts series produced by the A & E History Channel. It's called: "Emergency - EMS to the Rescue".
 
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXQfuwbUtk4

There is more positive news to report regarding the Fractured Fire Service of Norwich.
 
A SECOND incident in another Fire District (Yantic FD) brought the Norwich Firefighters to the address of 114 West Town St per the Yantic Fire Commander.
 
The Norwich FD responded as the FAST CO, with a Truck consisting of one Lt and three Firefighters (All Norwich FFs are trained in FAST Co Operations). A total distance of 2.9 miles.  Something that has NEVER happened.
 
This is a FIRST for the Yantic FD and there is no doubt that they did the right thing. Just as another Volunteer Fire District did, the East Great Plains FD, when they had a working fire recently.
 
 I believe full credit goes to Norwich City Manager, John Salamone. He took the time to listen when no other city officials did. He apparently realized that a fire department from some 8 or 15 miles away can NOT be called before the much closer, 24 hour staffed Norwich FD.
 
 This has been two years in the making which involved some very serious incidents. This entire campaign began with a grease fire two years ago at a nursing home located at 93 West Town St. Just down the street from this current incident. In that incident the Norwich FD was never called. However, three other unstaffed, volunteer fire departments were called from farther away.  
 
 I would like to think that this story is over. I hope that the two recent examples involving the East Great Plains and Yantic FDs will end this long on going nightmare. The Citizens of this city need to come first, not how some fire dept feels about each other.
 
 Tonight (2/8/2017), there is reason to be proud of these FDs within the City of Norwich, Ct.

There is more positive news to report regarding the Fractured Fire Service of Norwich.
 
A SECOND incident in another Fire District (Yantic FD) brought the Norwich Firefighters to the address of 114 West Town St per the Yantic Fire Commander.
 
The Norwich FD responded as the FAST CO, with a Truck consisting of one Lt and three Firefighters (All Norwich FFs are trained in FAST Co Operations). A total distance of 2.9 miles.  Something that has NEVER happened.
 
This is a FIRST for the Yantic FD and there is no doubt that they did the right thing. Just as another Volunteer Fire District did, the East Great Plains FD, when they had a working fire recently.
 
 I believe full credit goes to Norwich City Manager, John Salamone. He took the time to listen when no other city officials did. He apparently realized that a fire department from some 8 or 15 miles away can NOT be called before the much closer, 24 hour staffed Norwich FD.
 
 This has been two years in the making which involved some very serious incidents. This entire campaign began with a grease fire two years ago at a nursing home located at 93 West Town St. Just down the street from this current incident. In that incident the Norwich FD was never called. However, three other unstaffed, volunteer fire departments were called from farther away.  
 
 I would like to think that this story is over. I hope that the two recent examples involving the East Great Plains and Yantic FDs will end this long on going nightmare. The Citizens of this city need to come first, not how some fire dept feels about each other.
 
 Tonight (2/8/2017), there is reason to be proud of these FDs within the City of Norwich, Ct.

There is more positive news to report regarding the Fractured Fire Service of Norwich.
 
A SECOND incident in another Fire District (Yantic FD) brought the Norwich Firefighters to the address of 114 West Town St per the Yantic Fire Commander.
 
The Norwich FD responded as the FAST CO, with a Truck consisting of one Lt and three Firefighters (All Norwich FFs are trained in FAST Co Operations). A total distance of 2.9 miles.  Something that has NEVER happened.
 
This is a FIRST for the Yantic FD and there is no doubt that they did the right thing. Just as another Volunteer Fire District did, the East Great Plains FD, when they had a working fire recently.
 
 I believe full credit goes to Norwich City Manager, John Salamone. He took the time to listen when no other city officials did. He apparently realized that a fire department from some 8 or 15 miles away can NOT be called before the much closer, 24 hour staffed Norwich FD.
 
 This has been two years in the making which involved some very serious incidents. This entire campaign began with a grease fire two years ago at a nursing home located at 93 West Town St. Just down the street from this current incident. In that incident the Norwich FD was never called. However, three other unstaffed, volunteer fire departments were called from farther away.  
 
 I would like to think that this story is over. I hope that the two recent examples involving the East Great Plains and Yantic FDs will end this long on going nightmare. The Citizens of this city need to come first, not how some fire dept feels about each other.
 
 Tonight (2/8/2017), there is reason to be proud of these FDs within the City of Norwich, Ct.

There is more positive news to report regarding the Fractured Fire Service of Norwich.
 
A SECOND incident in another Fire District (Yantic FD) brought the Norwich Firefighters to the address of 114 West Town St per the Yantic Fire Commander.
 
The Norwich FD responded as the FAST CO, with a Truck consisting of one Lt and three Firefighters (All Norwich FFs are trained in FAST Co Operations). A total distance of 2.9 miles.  Something that has NEVER happened.
 
This is a FIRST for the Yantic FD and there is no doubt that they did the right thing. Just as another Volunteer Fire District did, the East Great Plains FD, when they had a working fire recently.
 
 I believe full credit goes to Norwich City Manager, John Salamone. He took the time to listen when no other city officials did. He apparently realized that a fire department from some 8 or 15 miles away can NOT be called before the much closer, 24 hour staffed Norwich FD.
 
 This has been two years in the making which involved some very serious incidents. This entire campaign began with a grease fire two years ago at a nursing home located at 93 West Town St. Just down the street from this current incident. In that incident the Norwich FD was never called. However, three other unstaffed, volunteer fire departments were called from farther away.  
 
 I would like to think that this story is over. I hope that the two recent examples involving the East Great Plains and Yantic FDs will end this long on going nightmare. The Citizens of this city need to come first, not how some fire dept feels about each other.
 
 Tonight (2/8/2017), there is reason to be proud of these FDs within the City of Norwich, Ct.

Here is a letter written to a local newspaper by the daughter of a firefighter. She tells how these firefighters, "Don't take Brotherhood lightly".
 
http://www.silive.com/opinion/letters/index.ssf/2017/02/firefighters_dont_take_brother.html#incart_river_index 

Here is a letter written to a local newspaper by the daughter of a firefighter. She tells how these firefighters, "Don't take Brotherhood lightly".
 
http://www.silive.com/opinion/letters/index.ssf/2017/02/firefighters_dont_take_brother.html#incart_river_index 

Here is a letter written to a local newspaper by the daughter of a firefighter. She tells how these firefighters, "Don't take Brotherhood lightly".
 
http://www.silive.com/opinion/letters/index.ssf/2017/02/firefighters_dont_take_brother.html#incart_river_index 

Here is a letter written to a local newspaper by the daughter of a firefighter. She tells how these firefighters, "Don't take Brotherhood lightly".
 
http://www.silive.com/opinion/letters/index.ssf/2017/02/firefighters_dont_take_brother.html#incart_river_index 

Here is a letter written to a local newspaper by the daughter of a firefighter. She tells how these firefighters, "Don't take Brotherhood lightly".
 
http://www.silive.com/opinion/letters/index.ssf/2017/02/firefighters_dont_take_brother.html#incart_river_index