Brewster FD 3rd Station Proposal

[Remember585 815]

Brewster fire district proposes a sub-station

By MARCELA ROJAS

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: December 22, 2006)

SOUTHEAST -The Brewster-Southeast Joint Fire District has proposed a multimillion-dollar substation in the eastern part of town.

The project, an 11,510-square-foot facility on Milltown Road, is before the Planning Board, with public hearings scheduled for early 2007. A $5 million bond referendum is expected at the end of March, officials said.

Although plans to build a third firehouse to protect the growing area have been in the works for five years, the district seized the opportunity recently after insurance giant American International Group (AIG) donated the 4.78 acres to them this year.

"Knowing what property values are in the district, it was a tremendous offer from AIG," district spokesman Richard Hiss said. "It's a strategic location."

But some residents, who say they learned about the project only this month, have raised concerns about the size of the substation and whether it would destroy the bucolic, residential neighborhood.

"To be fair, we don't know enough about it to take a position," said James Ryan, chairman of the Milltown Association, a civic group with 90 families. "But there is great concern on what this will do to the historic character of the area."

Other residents are skeptical about whether the donation will open the door to development. There are 68 undeveloped acres behind the proposed site.

Joe Norton, AIG's director of public relations, confirmed that AIG donated the land, but said he did not have any other information. Supervisor John Dunford said there were no plans at this time to develop it. AIG was once involved in the management of the exclusive Morefar Back O'Beyond golf course off Federal Road in Southeast.

"What's really behind this?" posited David Heer of Settlers Hill Road. "I've lived here for 25 years, and it's never been said it was unsafe for getting fire protection. There are a lot of questions and not a lot of clarity or transparency and the Fire Department is just moving this along."

Brewster Fire Chief Ken Clair said that a substation was sorely needed because the response time to that area was about 25 minutes and there was no water resource there. The department has its main headquarters on North Main Street in Brewster and another station on Route 312.

"Both firehouses are cramped, and so this would definitely be a big help," Clair said.

Hiss said the one-story building would have 3,360 square feet of office space and a 8,150-square-foot apparatus bay for as many as eight trucks around back. The site will also house a 25,100-gallon water storage tank that will be both above and below ground.

Hiss emphasized that the substation would serve all of Southeast and Brewster and was in a convenient location to busy roads, including Interstates 84 and 684. The Brewster Volunteer Fire Department is the busiest in Putnam County, he said, handling more than 1,600 fire and ambulance calls annually.

The 25-year life of the bond is expected to cost $50 a year per household for the first nine years and $20 a year for the remaining 16 years, Hiss said.

Reach Marcela Rojas at mrojas@lohud.com or 845-228-2271.

I had heard this from time to time in passing - not a bad idea. Best of luck to Brewster to better protect their ever-growing community.

Edited December 25, 2006 by Remember585

[JBE 328]

I can't understand why people would be opposed to having a firehouse in their neighborhood. If response times to the @$$ end of that area are as bad as Kenny says, it can't be a bad thing. Maybe if it was explained to the residents, they might be a little more receptive.

[JohnnyOV 2]

I can't understand why people would be opposed to having a firehouse in their neighborhood. If response times to the @$$ end of that area are as bad as Kenny says, it can't be a bad thing. Maybe if it was explained to the residents, they might be a little more receptive.

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I completely agree. I think if the residents knew what a 25 minute response time feels like, they would change there mind immediately...

How does Brewster deal with response times now, especially with an ambulance run down in that area?

[Medic137 6]

Maybe if the proposal included bringing Medic 4 back to one of the Brewster fire houses it would be easier to sell it to the district residents.

[Guest]

Maybe if the proposal included bringing Medic 4 back to one of the Brewster fire houses it would be easier to sell it to the district residents.

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Maybe so, but thats a beef that Brewster Fire has had with the Putnam Medic program for some time now, its more them being pigheaded than anything else (and they have, as such, endangered their residents by putting Medic 4 in Patterson seeing as Brewster does the majority of Putnam's EMS calls...). As far as an additional firehouse - you guys have to understand the politics inside Putnam to know why people are not willing to fund such a venture. In a nut shell, the County relies heavily upon property taxes and the such for its yearly revenue. Generally, the county has little industry on which it levey taxes on to take the burden off individual households. So the funding for any new program (IE: firehouse) rests solely on raising a homeowners taxes. The county upped the property tax like 18% this year (the first time in 10 years) and people are not willing to see an increase in a fire district/protection tax on top of that. Thats why North Highlands was unable to muster the votes to pass their 5 million bond for their firehouse. And thats why you wont see civil service EMS in Putnam for some time. So really, this isn't about a firehouse, its about dollars and cents which is only compounded by the increased property taxes and the foreseeable budget deficit of $3 million and change. At the same time, the County should get its head out of its a$$ and stop purchasing horse farms and golf courses (both of which have been a complete waste of resources) and start getting their priorities straight.

Edited December 26, 2006 by 66Alpha1

[IzzyEng4 427]

If memory serves me correctly about 7 years ago when I worked up in Danbury, I remember a call in that area were they lost a large building or house and the response time was at least 10 minutes. I also remembering Brewster calling in Mill Plain and another Danbury company to the scene with tankers. If they need it the build it, just because their is "no fire danger" in the eyes of a resident, wait until something bad happens and then listen to them complain that it took the FD "so long to get here"!

Hopefully the FD will document everything that is said by the residents, good and bad.

[helicopper 1,050]

Maybe it's not the project itself but the size of it - can Brewster justify an 11,000+ square foot "sub"station at a cost of 5 million dollars?

If I were facing this bond referendum I'd be asking the same questions their potential neighbors are asking - why so big and why so much?

A lot of departments have had a hard time passing building referendums lately (Millwood and North White Plains come to mind) so it's not unique to Brewster or Putnam politics.

As for the location of Putnam Medic 4 - it should be based where the call volume is! Period!

Happy Holidays!

[lad12derff 283]

As a Southeast resident I feel as though I have a say in this topic. It should take no more than 5 minutes to respond from the village main station nor the towns sub station on north brewster road to any part of the milltown road district. So with a 4 or 5 minute response from your house ( this number is from the volunteers I know ) and the 5 minute response from either station the time should be no more than 9 to 10 minutes. The 25 minute responses are because they can't get the manpower during the day. Nightime response is probably within a reasonable time frame. By building a 5 million dollar substation does not put out fires nor does buying the equiuptment it is and always will be manpower. What Kenny need to tell the taxpayers is how many members live in the milltown road area that can fill those rigs to respond. Driving from other parts of town to the new substation does not fix the problem.

[TRUCK6018 50]

A lot of departments have had a hard time passing building referendums lately (Millwood and North White Plains come to mind) so it's not unique to Brewster or Putnam politics.

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North Highlands in Putnam and New Hamburg in Dutchess have also had recently defeated building referendums.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Great point Chris. Regardless of what we think, residents have the right to voice their opinion and the fire district has the obligation to be fair and to try to work with everyone to get what they need and keep the station within the scope of the neighborhood. I know of some fire headquaters that are not 5000 sq. ft. Perhaps once the plans come out of how the grounds and exterior will look like it will help. This is common down south where many fire stations have to be dressed to fit into the neighborhood. Just because we are the fire department doesn't mean we have a higher power and everyone should just zip it and go with the program. Bonds like that always sound good until the next one within 7-10 years for more equipment or big budget item. Fact is people don't want their taxes going up regardless of what they are and often within fire districts, do they see where their money is going?

Not to start a war but the pulling of medic 4 out of the substation they were in was ridiculous. But then again when you allow fire commissioners often to deal with the decisions of persons medical care when they often are either out dated, ignorant or just don't care and don't get it, what do you expect. All you can do is hope that someone who really needs it doesn't pay for the delay. Then again, we all know that in certain areas that always is a delay in getting a bus.

[Guest]

Chris and ALS i think hit a pretty contentious point here and that is justification as it relates to the size (and cost). Do you really need 8 pieces of apparatus in a substation? If you were to ask me (granted i have no FF experience and only very limited knowledge) an engine and a ladder or two engines is apparatus enough to cover one section of a fire district.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Homer, fantastic as usual. I agree with many of your points. To clarify I'm not so hung up on the size, I didn't read what they were asking to build to be honest and I have my own opinions as to what and how many apparatus need to be there. My main point is, you have to work with your communities as well and we also have to realize that sometimes things need to be sold. THe day and age of just say hey the FD needs it so ok is over. They owe us nothing, they are customers we owe them.

Although the water tank somewhat puzzles me and I'm all for future expansion but be able to fit 8 vehicles? Again, I'm not here to say what I think Brewster needs or doesn't. Just thinking in my own head as a manager/leader.

[Guest]

Apologize for the confusion ALS, but i do think size as it relates to cost and current/future needs needs to be detailed and justified by the department. All in all I think this guy sums it up, plain and simple:

"What's really behind this?" posited David Heer of Settlers Hill Road. "I've lived here for 25 years, and it's never been said it was unsafe for getting fire protection. There are a lot of questions and not a lot of clarity or transparency and the Fire Department is just moving this along."

[ltjay157 10]

Ok, I don't want to start a war here but I thought Brewsters FH on Rte 312 was called station 2? It has 6 bays if trucks are parked back to back. To me, that isn't a substation, it's a full firehouse. In my area, several Dept's have small 2 bay buildings that are 50' by 70' as a substation. They have 1 or 2 trucks in them and have an office, bathrooms and a small common area. They are easily maintained and are basically used to house apparatus only. The one thing that drives me nutz is the volly dept's that have a lot of equipment they don't need or use. I'll be the firs to admit my dept has overkill considering there are 3 seperate dept's with 2 stations each & a total of 26 pieces of apparatus in town covering 27 square miles & protect 21,000 people. It just boggles the mind why we need soo much when cities like Bridgeport CT run with6 engines & 3 truck co's (not sure of exact #, BFD website is under construction) and protect 150,000 people. We need ways to attract & retain new members or hate to say it possibly have either paid EMS/Fire during working hours to reduce response times. Sorry for my little rant. I'm coming from a dept who's annual budget from the town is $180,000 a year and have to prioritize our needs vs wants. Again, sorry for the ranting, I just want want what's best for the people we serve and I feel sometimes we don't do that. Just my 2 cents

[Guest DADAY]

6 bays? Ok first and foremost, there is 6 DOORS, not 6 bays, There is a 2 Engines, a Tanker, The Ladder, and the hose reel. This is all at STATION 1, (the substation). Not much up there for training, or storage. To say that that is a "full firehouse" is correct in the once sense but not in the other.

Medic 4 is not even part of the issue here, so why bring that up?!!!

And reponse time is as stated by the Chief of the Department in the area of 25 mins to the milltown rd area. Drive in your car from Station 1 (312 & No. Brewster) to Welfare Rd or to Sherwood Hill, no way is it 5 mins. I don't know who gave you the info that it was a 5 mins response time to these area's, but they are mistaken. It is not because of a manpower issue. If there were a full crew in house it still would take 10 maybe 15 mins to get to a lot of the places in the Milltown Rd area.

[Sean11FD 3]

besides nothing...what does (empire!) medic 4 have to do with a new station?

Edited December 27, 2006 by Sean11FD

[Sean11FD 3]

Interesting thread. Based upon what I know about firehouses the square footage is not that extreme. The bay space as quoted is simply four pull through bays, roughly 80 x 100 total foot print. Frankly, with the length of apparatus increasing, our changing roles and the need for specific apparatus (trailers, ATVs and other misc. toys - yes, toys) the space is just enough. That is, if you want to be able to walk around the rig without standing on the bumper of the others.

As a taxpayer I think the other questions I would be asking are:

Why such an odd sized water tank? The ISO only gives you credit for stored water above 30,000 gallons.

What provisions are there for paid personnel to be able to live in the house? Yes, I said it. Listen to how long it really takes to get out the door with a properly manned piece of apparatus or ambulance. The fact is Kenny's claim of 25 minutes responce is probably being generous - remember, Chief's cars don't count in the real world. I am not saying we are all going paid. I am saying that if you build a building with the future in mind (next 20 to 35 years) you need integrate building features now that will meet the needs. And don't forget female firefighter quarters as well.

What extras are being built into the project? Training areas or spaces where drill work can be accomplished inside? What about decon and clean up areas? SCBA storage and filling areas with blow out walls?

Who is the architect and what research has been done to find out what other FDs have done with them?

What are the additional monthly expenses that will be associated with this station? What is that number going to do to the fire district budget - on top of the bond? Remember, Fire Districts set their own tax rate - not the voters.

What new equipment are you purchasing to put in this station? Oh, lets not play the moving old equipment to this station game - if you move one piece out of the main station you are going to want to buy something new for that parking space. Fact, not fiction.

I wish Brewster all the luck in the world if this is what they want. But lets not forget to answer all the questions before they come back to bite someone in the butt.

Happy New Year!

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1) you wont have paid personel in there. Im guessing youve never been to brewster...because if you had you would see that there is no need for a paid FD. However i i remember correctly they are planning to put in a sleeping quarters/bunks. And as far as i know, the female firefighters we have in our dept, dont live near this station.

2)decon areas, scba areas and training areas ARE going to be in the proposed firehouse.

3)we are purchasing NO new equipment for this firehouse, however we have a new engine on its way, and that will be in station 1. Its due to be here sometime in feb. as far as i know. 2-2 will be going up north.

thats all i can answer for you.

Merry Christmas

[Guest]

1) you wont have paid personel in there. Im guessing youve never been to brewster...because if you had you would see that there is no need for a paid FD. However i i remember correctly they are planning to put in a sleeping quarters/bunks. And as far as i know, the female firefighters we have in our dept, dont live near this station.

2)decon areas, scba areas and training areas ARE going to be in the proposed firehouse.

3)we are purchasing NO new equipment for this firehouse, however we have a new engine on its way, and that will be in station 1. Its due to be here sometime in feb. as far as i know.    2-2 will be going up north.

thats all i can answer for you.

Merry Christmas

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See, this is the type of personal attack crap that really sucks the life out of threads. If you took a few extra seconds, you would notice that Homer J is a Putnam County resident. The language you use comes across very condescending, almost as if your talking down to what he has to say - if this is how business is conducted towards residents of southeast/brewster, i wouldn't blame them for not wanting to foot the bill. Like someone (i think it was ALS) said, you work for the residents, they are your customers and you are thus obligated to answer all their questions/concerns in a comprehensive and professional manor as well as present the need for an additional station. You don't just blow them off, or anyone else for that matter, as "never having been to southeast/brewster" or not understanding the needs of the FD.

Edited December 27, 2006 by 66Alpha1

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Back on the topic of response time in the Milltown Road area, I can see the Chief's point. At the last structure fire I remember on Milltown in Brewster's district a First Lieutenant from New Fairfield got there approximately the same time as the first-due engine did, so their response time in that area is a bit lacking. Sure, New Fairfield, King Street, Mill Plain, and DFD E25 are in the area, but insurance doesn't go down for mutual aid unless its automatic. The firehouse can definitely be justfied in my opinion. I only wish more of us could get land donated by the insurance industry...

[lad12derff 283]

6 bays? Ok first and foremost, there is 6 DOORS, not 6 bays, There is a 2 Engines, a Tanker, The Ladder, and the hose reel. This is all at STATION 1, (the substation). Not much up there for training, or storage. To say that that is a "full firehouse" is correct in the once sense but not in the other.

Medic 4 is not even part of the issue here, so why bring that up?!!!

And reponse time is as stated by the Chief of the Department in the area of 25 mins to the milltown rd area. Drive in your car from Station 1 (312 & No. Brewster) to Welfare Rd or to Sherwood Hill, no way is it 5 mins. I don't know who gave you the info that it was a 5 mins response time to these area's, but they are mistaken. It is not because of a manpower issue. If there were a full crew in house it still would take 10 maybe 15 mins to get to a lot of the places in the Milltown Rd area.

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First off, I haved lived in Brewster for most of my life so I do know how long it takes to get to places around town.

Second off, It's amazing how when we talk about response times to the vollies you all say you are on scene in the alotted 8 minute time frame. But when you need something now the tune changes.

Third off, If you get a call for a job on welfare rd you should have an automatic duel response with put lake who has a firehouse 2 miles from there.

Build a sub station like ltjay said with 1 bay for an engine a bathroom with shower to clean up if you wish. As for decon, that takes place at the scene of the job not at the place you respond from. Training takes place at the county training center or at the main station. and I don't know what an scba area is but if you are talking about the cascade system it should be at the main station.

I am tired of my taxes going up every year (18% this year again) for crap we don't need.

[Guest]

First off, I haved lived in Brewster for most of my life so I do know how long it takes to get to places around town.

Second off, It's amazing how when we talk about response times to the vollies you all say you are on scene in the alotted 8 minute time frame. But when you need something now the tune changes.

Third off, If you get a call for a job on welfare rd you should have an automatic duel response with  put lake who has a firehouse 2 miles from there.

Build a sub station like ltjay said with 1 bay for an engine a bathroom with shower to clean up if you wish. As for decon, that takes place at the scene of the job not at the place you respond from. Training takes place at the county training center or at the main station. and I don't know what an scba area is but if you are talking about the cascade system it should be at the main station.

I am tired of my taxes going up every year (18% this year again) for crap we don't need.

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Very well said lad12. The medic 4 issue is also very applicable here. If response times were such a big deal, why move him out to patterson? If i lived in brewester i would like to see a written stipulation that brought the medic back before i signed on to any plan to build a new station.

[lad12derff 283]

Very well said lad12. The medic 4 issue is also very applicable here. If response times were such a big deal, why move him out to patterson? If i lived in brewester i would like to see a written stipulation that brought the medic back before i signed on to any plan to build a new station.

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Believe me 66Alpha1 I would love to see the medic back in Brewster but it is politics as usual in Brewster. I had a family member who had a heart attack and died 100 yrds from the sub station. When I got the call I drove at about 80 mph to the house from only a couple of miles away and pulled in with the medics (they were stationed at the sub station at the time). They were there in a matter of minutes (2) after going through the 911 system. The person was expired but we still worked as though we had a shot like you should do. My point is they were there in minutes not tens of minutes from a different part of the county and being a career guy I DO KNOW WHAT SECONDS AND MINUTES MEAN.

Edited January 7, 2007 by lad12derff

[jps385 0]

As a former Brewster resident I would have to say the location is kind of remote. Its about 2-3 miles from 22. How many members does brewster have in that area anyway? 7-10? (how many are available at any given time 2-3?) How could you possibly staff an 8 bay station with that few personel? Would Brewster ever need 8 more truck anyway? Growth is one thing but unless Donald Trump comes to town I don't think you'll that kind of devlopment in the area.

While I think coverage on the East side of town is needed this is probably not the way to go. The main house has been falling down since I was there 10 years ago. If your going to ask the taxpayers for a milti-million dollar project replace the main house in an area where you have members, and build a 2 bay substation on Milltown.

The medic 4 thing is a whole different issue that needs to be adressed well before this staionis built anyway.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Any updates on the process? I haven't heard anything lately.