Croton EMS

[jack10562 414]

In this weeks North County News, April 11-17, on P-20, there is an article which mentions that the Village of Croton is planning to establish an EMS department, separate from the Fire Department.

The village board has stated the cost will be $117,000 for the first year, although they expect to recover some insurance monies the Volunteer Fire Department could not.

Questions:

Who is going to staff this 24/7/365? Vollies/Paid?

What equipment: Rigs, etc?

When is this going forward?

Where will this be based?

and last but not least,... Why....?

Will any CFD members be involved?

Comments?

[CFD320 35]

In this weeks North County News, April 11-17, on P-20, there is an article which mentions that the Village of Croton is planning to establish an EMS department, separate from the Fire Department.

The village board has stated the cost will be $117,000 for the first year, although they expect to recover some insurance monies the Volunteer Fire Department could not.

Questions:

Who is going to staff this 24/7/365? Vollies/Paid?

What equipment: Rigs, etc?

When is this going forward?

Where will this be based?

and last but not least,...  Why....?

Will any CFD members be involved?

Comments?

←

Answers:

Volunteer

Current EMS rigs will be used

Timetable is not 100% set in stone

As of now the rigs will be housed where they are now

Lack of manpower

I suspect many current CFD members who respond with EMS will join the new VAC.

The sitting Chief hales from the rescue/EMS company, he feels strongly that establishing a separate non-FD EMS entity will solve current problems. From what I understand the entity is being modeled after what Sleepy Hollow did.

Edited April 13, 2007 by CFD320

[Guest]

Out of curiosity, whats the rational as far as a VAC rendering better turnout?

[Guest]

IT WILL GIVE MEMBERS OF OTHER FIRE DEPARTMENTS A CHANCE TO JOIN AND I THINK THAT WE WILL GET ALOT MORE MEMBERS THAT WAY. PLUS THERE IS PEOPLE IN THE VILLAGE THAT DONT WANT TO JOIN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT BUT WANT TO JOIN EMS SO THIS WILL OPEN IT UP FOR THOSE PEOPLE AS WELL.

Out of curiosity, whats the rational as far as a VAC rendering better turnout?

←

[Guest]

I suppose only time will tell. Best of luck getting things off the ground!

[x635 4,066]

I haven't heard this.

I believe EMS should be it's own entity, except in such systems being part of the FD is beneficial (like LA).

Also, the new VAC would be able to bill?

And if lack of members, they would hire?

[AFS1970 504]

I generally agree that EMS should be it's own service, but in this case I have to wonder how a seperate VAC would be any better or worse than the current FD run service. Since the vehicles and stations and other infrastructure are already in place, it seems to me like a class of membership that only run EMS calls could augment those that are currently cross trained. Just a thought.

[Oswegowind 17]

Didn't Mohegan do this recently? How about one of their members outline how beneficial this has been to the EMS side of the coin. It looks like it is much better than it used to be, but that is just from a distance! Their equipment seems more up to date...including the really cool injury prevention unit...than when they were just known as the Rescue Squad.

[131PFD 1]

there may also be a financial reasoning behind the move. A VAC is able to bill for Ambulance transports differently than a FD run ambulance that could be some of the motivation behind the move.

[Guest]

its about time people need to realize the answer is not to have your EMS as an add on that other people do secondary to thier primary job function. EMS is a VITAL service that should be manned by trained, experienced EMS personel, we also need to take profit out of the equation. I think PD are brave and essential, I think FD are brave and essential, they should focus on what they are very good at, and let us (EMS) focus on what we are very good at. Isnt your child or parents or spouse's life worth it, I am very proud of the guys i work with every day (PD&FD) now just let us make you proud of us...........sorry if I ramble I just love with all my heart what I do .....

Edited May 6, 2007 by PEDSTRUK

[Guest alsfirefighter]

PEDSTRUCK...no need to apologize....but I am good at both of what I do. I for one don't buy into the argument that you can't be good at both. There is no such thing as a secondary to your primary function. You are what you respond to. If EMS is a "secondary" function to a "primary" if its FD based...that is a leadership and management issue. Many of the top EMS systems in the country are fire based and when run properly, with the right leadership and management is about one of the greatest jobs you can possibly do. With salaries and benefits of what they should be, top notch equipment and cross trained personnel that has additional benefits beyond those originally seen.

Billing is always great if you are in a system where budgeting just wasn't where it should be (management issue), but if you are billing and having trouble getting out, then some of that reimbursement needs to be earmarked for staffing (good management practice).

[CFD320 35]

I haven't heard this.

I believe EMS should be it's own entity, except in such systems being part of the FD is beneficial (like LA).

Also, the new VAC would be able to bill?

And if lack of members, they would hire?

←

It has been projected that the new EMS agency would be a positive cash-flow entity. One can only assume that these new funds would be used to better the EMS coverage that said there are no paid staff positions planned at this time. I am quite sure that is subject to change without notice.

Edited May 6, 2007 by CFD320

[Guest]

PEDSTRUCK...no need to apologize....but I am good at both of what I do.  I for one don't buy into the argument that you can't be good at both.  There is no such thing as a secondary to your primary function.  You are what you respond to.  If EMS is a "secondary" function to a "primary" if its FD based...that is a leadership and management issue.  Many of the top EMS systems in the country are fire based and when run properly, with the right leadership and management is about one of the greatest jobs you can possibly do.  With salaries and benefits of what they should be, top notch equipment and cross trained personnel that has additional benefits beyond those originally seen.

Billing is always great if you are in a system where budgeting just wasn't where it should be (management issue), but if you are billing and having trouble getting out, then some of that reimbursement needs to be earmarked for staffing (good management practice).

←

ALS, i totally agree, but i THINK what Ped was saying (he can correct me if i'm wrong) is that when you have a volunteer EMS system within a volunteer Fire system your asking for trouble, and i tend to agree. Most people don't want to ride an ambulance and would much rather play fireman. I've been told directly that " if a fire/EMS call comes in (aka MVA, Fire, etc.) I'm going as a firefighter and not as part of the EMS crew." I recall one instance where an accident occurred on a highway in Westchester about 5 car lengths ahead of me. I, an on duty state detective, and an off duty Yonkers PO stopped. The detective called for resources, and i and the Yonkers cop attended to the patient. I got her into a c-collar and was holding c-spine and both the cop and i were doing a quick assessment. The agency which covered this area was a combined agency. The Fire engines showed up with people jammed into the cabs, the ambulance responded with a driver and a 16 year old kid who didn't know his left from his right. Needless to say, until the Medic arrived i had to fight off Firefighters who wanted the patient to get out of the car under her own power and try to cordinate the extrication from the backseat of the car....

[DOC22 1]

I guess in Croton Falls we're just very fortunate. While we do not run the ambulance (North Salem VAC does that) But we have at last count 28 or 30 EMTS. We back up the Corps on most calls. I'm proud to say CFFD and NSVAC work extremely well together. If they need a firefighter to ride as EMT it's done no problem, a number of our EMTs are also members of NSVAC. we have an EXCELLENT working relationship.

[Guest]

I guess in Croton Falls we're just very fortunate. While we do not run the ambulance (North Salem VAC does that) But we have at last count 28 or 30 EMTS. We back up the Corps on most calls. I'm proud to say CFFD and NSVAC work extremely well together. If they need a firefighter to ride as EMT it's done no problem, a number of our EMTs are also members of NSVAC. we have an EXCELLENT working relationship.

←

I work for Harrison EMS and we have 3 FD's and we work VERY WELL together whenever I have an MCI or even just a serious mva whatever I need I get if I need hands in the back or someone to drive it is never a problem, on pinjobs we work as a team with one goal, when I am inside that mangled vehicle I feel safe and TRUST them and I know they trust me, I just feel that EMS needs to be a third service run by EMS personel this dose not mean I am anti any one you cant blame me any one who knows me knows how much I love EMS it is my life and I will have my "bat belt" on over my depends and a red light on my wheelchair when I am 90............

[Remember585 815]

Been holding off on talking about this, but now I have the time to explain some things.

The Croton FD has provided EMS to the Village of Croton, the unincorporated areas of the Town of Cortlandt we are contracted to cover and Mutual Aid to our neighbors for over 50 years. Like any other agency the call volume has increased quite a bit and the amount of time per call has also increased due to many factors including ALS intervention, traffic congestion, etc. In 2006 CFDEMS was requested over 600 times.

The CFD Ambulances are staffed by personnel from the five fire companies with a primary responsibility falling upon our Rescue Company. In an attempt to attract EMS-Only personnel, the CFD created a "Medic" membership classification in the early 90s. This has brought in some personnel but many have vanished for various reasons. Of those reasons, one that is heard often is that EMS-Only personnel have been asked and sometimes "pressured" into assisting the Rescue Company with Fire Police and other fire department responsibilities that these people want no part of.

Over the last few years we have had a serious decline in the number of EMTs responding to calls. In many of these cases the personnel are also vital members of the FD and have begun to feel burnt out between their FD responsibilities and assisting with EMS. Let's face it, most fire calls take only minutes to handle where some EMS calls pull you away from your day for an hour and a half. It's not so much that those of us that do EMS in Croton don't want to do it, we are just getting tired of doing it and waiting for some "new blood" to step up and help.

We have discussed for some time our options and we feel that seperating EMS from our Fire Department may benefit everyone involved. We can finally recruit people for EMS only with no FD affiliation at all. We can elect Officers with EMS training that we have lacked. We can have a seperate and more beneficial budget for EMS - another thing we have lacked. We can implement policies and procedures that have been non-existing since day one due to old-school FD personnel with no EMS experience controlling it. And, in what I feel is the most beneficial thing, if we find we can't get it done with volunteer personnel then we can take the money we make thru patient billing and pay someone to do it. As an FD we can not bill nor can we hire anybody. Do I think we need to hire someone? Tough question which has some variables. The people are there to get the rigs out 95-98% of the time and don't because of the problems mentioned above. I hope that with the new "Department" and the potential momentum of a new organization we can re-ignite that passion to help our community that we once had.

The bottom line is that our community, like all others, deserves appropriate, well-trained, professional care in a timely manner. This is the biggest move we have made in my 15 years with the Department to help that cause. Only time will tell.

[ems731 0]

Good luck Croton, hope it all goes well!

[Remember585 815]

On Tuesday 5/29 the CFD Fire Council approved to make this happen. At the Village Board meeting on 6/4, they acknowledged the Fire Department's proposal and will begin all the "paperwork."

I haven't heard a set date to start, but I do know applications for membership are now available.

[KelliPVAC 32]

Good luck!!!!!!!!

[shac 7313 0]

ALS, i totally agree, but i THINK what Ped was saying (he can correct me if i'm wro

good for you doc 22. thats does not happen often in non-fire-ems.