Tarrytown- Pursuit/Perp off Bridge 5/1

[Guest]

i just heard irvington and sleepy hollow fd's get called to the bridge. someone else thought they heard the fd's requesting diving gear. anyone know the status on this?

[hatr1k 6]

It started as a police persuit from the city up the Saw Mill onto 87 to the Tappan Zee and the suspect then jumped.

[Guest]

ch 11 news reports it was a chase that started on the jersey side of the GW bridge. they said it was a tractor trailer they were chasing......not sure how much truth there is at this point .

[Guest]

ch 11 news reports it was a chase that started on the jersey side of the GW bridge. they said it was a tractor trailer they were chasing......not sure how much truth there is at this point .

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the moshalu and the deegan expwy were shutdown i dont know for how long.and the cops cars on the grand cocnourse were racing nonstop for 5 minutes and so was the papd

Edited May 2, 2007 by anesti1

[gpdexplorer 46]

My friend in Tarrytown FD said they were at the firehouse and heard something about a pursuit approaching the Tappan Zee Bridge. Shortly thereafter they heard helicopters and heard that the operator of the vehicle jumped. They immediately responded to the fire boat dock and were toned out enroute to the dock. Reportedly, the perp attempted to swim and hide behind the pier as he saw approaching FD Marine Units. An NYPD Air Unit landed in the parking lot by Tarrytown FD Dockside.

*Again, this is what I have heard, no official word*

[SHAC7301 0]

Marine Units from the Sleepy Hollow, Tarrytown and Irvington FDs were dispatched to a PD report of a jumper in the water. Sleepy Hollow deployed first, followed closely by Tarrytown. Upon arriving on scene, FD units were advised that the victim was in fact a suspect who had been pursued by PD ground and air units from NY and NJ (NJSP, NYSP+PAPD) onto the bridge. Sleepy Hollow and Tarrytown FD had law enforcement agents on board. The suspect was spotted clinging to a bridge support. After the law enforcement agent confirmed that the suspect was unarmed, Sleepy Hollow FD Water Rescue Swimmers entered the water and rescued the suspect (at gunpoint ). The suspect, now in custody on the Sleepy Hollow Marine Unit (Marine 7), was treated by Sleepy Hollow EMTs enroute to the Tarrytown Municipal Dock. The suspect was turned over to the "multiple" PD units and the Tarrytown VAC. Suspect was transported by Tarrytown VAC under police guard. Great job by all units involved!!!!

[JetPhoto 626]

My paging group had information as follows, the chase started in NJ and went across the GWB to the Cross Bronx to the Saw Mill Parkway across the Tappan Zee Bridge where he crashed and jumped off the bridge and was found attempting to flee by marine units. The driver was wanted for CDS

Brought to you by 1st Responder Wireless News

TZ jumper thought to be in Hudson River after chase; divers dispatched

By GERALD MCKINSTRY

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: May 1, 2007)

A person was believed to have plunged into the Hudson River about 9:45 p.m. tonight after a truck pursuit with police through New Jersey, New York City and Westchester.

The driver may have stopped midspan and jumped after Rockland police blocked off the Tappan Zee Bridge.

Deputy Donald Joachim of the Rockland County Sheriff's Department said divers from the Piermont and Nyack fire departments had been dispatched at about 9:35 p.m. He said divers from the Tarrytown department were also sent.

Check back for updates at lohud.com and read more tomorrow in The Journal News.

[27east 19]

wanted for CDS???

[helicopper 1,050]

Sleepy Hollow and Tarrytown FD had law enforcement agents on board.  The suspect was spotted clinging to a bridge support.  After the law enforcement agent confirmed that the suspect was unarmed, Sleepy Hollow FD Water Rescue Swimmers entered the water and rescued the suspect (at gunpoint ).Great job by all units involved!!!!

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Questions -

Did the boats have on-duty local police officers on board or did they have off-duty law enforcement who were coincidentally FD members?

How did anyone confirm that the suspect was unarmed if he was in the water?

Were the officers covering the rescue swimmers on boats or on land when they were holding the suspect "at gunpoint". If they were on boats, have they trained in firearms use from a moving platform such as a boat? If the suspect became combative and tried to drown the rescue swimmer(s), I suspect that it would have been difficult (at best) to shoot him from a moving boat in the dark while he's struggling with the good guys.

Before we say "great job", did anyone assess the urgency that required this type of aggressive rescue response for a wanted suspect? Could a larger boat with a larger, trained law enforcement contingent been brought in to safely and effectively control the suspect?

Just thoughts - not a flame at any agency. Let's say it's a hypothetical scenario and these are questions about it...

[SHAC7301 0]

Questions -

Did the boats have on-duty local police officers on board or did they have off-duty law enforcement who were coincidentally FD members?

How did anyone confirm that the suspect was unarmed if he was in the water? 

Were the officers covering the rescue swimmers on boats or on land when they were holding the suspect "at gunpoint".  If they were on boats, have they trained in firearms use from a moving platform such as a boat?  If the suspect became combative and tried to drown the rescue swimmer(s), I suspect that it would have been difficult (at best) to shoot him from a moving boat in the dark while he's struggling with the good guys.

Before we say "great job", did anyone assess the urgency that required this type of aggressive rescue response for a wanted suspect?   Could a larger boat with a larger, trained law enforcement contingent been brought in to safely and effectively control the suspect?

Just thoughts - not a flame at any agency.  Let's say it's a hypothetical scenario and these are questions about it...

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Answers-

1. The FD boats had on and off duty law enforcement personnel.

2. These law enforcement personnel have had advanced training/certification in water rescue, EMS, SWAT.

3. The suspect was sitting on an underwater ledge on the bridge support that kept the water at chest deep. He was able to raise his hands (after some convincing) in a compliant manner prior to the approach of the swimmers.

4. The "cover" officer was on a boat approximately 7 yards away from the suspect.

The "cover" officer has had advanced training on shooting from moving platforms as he is assigned to a special operations unit. The suspect was being illuminated by multiple searchlights and was highly visible the entire time. The cover officer and his backup on the second boat (15 yards from the shooter) were quite confident that an accurate shot could be taken. The suspect had a cement backdrop, coincidentally. The boat was fairly stationary and the river was fairly calm.

5. How about this for urgency...the guy just jumped off a bridge and has been swimming/sitting in 50 degree water for over 20 minutes. He, upon trauma assessment on the FD boat (and without violating HIPPA), had obvious sign of significant trauma. How long should he be left, untreated, in the water? More precisely, how long could he have survived in the water? There were no PD boats visible when he was removed from the water. The HEAT boat did appear at the Tarrytown Marina at the end of the incident. Constant contact was made via the IC with the law enforcement agencies involved, who as the "lead agencies" requested that each FD boat have a LEO on board. No order was given for the FD boats to wait for PD boats to respond.

6. The FD boats, based on my experience, have better response times than the PD boats when all are in "call-out" status, ie.. none are on patrol (like that night).

7. The FD boats, on average, have better staffing than the PD boats. FD boats normally respond with at least 4 personnel. Most agencies require the boat crew to be staffed with a minimum of 1 EMT and 2 water rescue technicians or divers, in addition to the boat driver/captain. As a law enforcement agent for 15 years now, having friends and acquaintances in other agencies, I am well aware that due to staffing level problems (of which I can sympathize), most law enforcement agencies only put two officers on their boats, on average....

Here is the bottom line...the suspect was not going to last a whole lot longer in the water due to injuries and hypothermia. He was adequately controlled by trained professionals who have had advanced training to handle situations like this (in general). He was efficiently and effectively removed from the water without incident.

All of the agencies involved worked well together that night....Fire, Police and EMS.

I do agree with the fact that in a perfect world, PD boats would have been on scene and handled the incident, but this is not a perfect world.

I may be biased due to the fact that I was the law enforcement agent on Sleepy Hollow's boat that night, but my opinions are based on 15 years of law enforcement experience, 12 years of Fire/EMS experience and some Navy time to boot....

So I will reiterate my comment, "Great job by all those involved."

And by the way, it was not my idea to place my original posting on this thread.

The Sleepy Hollow Chief asked me to do it. I guessed (correctly) that someone would be critical of our tactics, as happens too often on this site.

Edited May 3, 2007 by SHAC7301

[hawkbase 21]

A Great job by all!! Pt./perp survived and all members got home safely!! 'nough said!

[helicopper 1,050]

So I will reiterate my comment, "Great job by all those involved."

And by the way, it was not my idea to place my original posting on this thread.

The Sleepy Hollow Chief asked me to do it.  I guessed (correctly) that someone would be critical of our tactics, as happens too often on this site.

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As I said, I was not bashing or criticizing the job, I was asking questions to be better informed about the response and local capabilities. I like reading these exchanges and learning about who does what and how. It's useful both professionally and personally.

Thanks for the insight and detailed information! I'm glad we have specialized resources that are able to perform law enforcement skills on the water and am really glad things worked out as they did that night! I know that shooting from moving platforms is a major issue for tactical teams and it requires ongoing (constant) training so I'm relieved to know that some local assets have that capabilitiy.

As for the urgency - he was a victim, yes - but he was also a suspect and I wouldn't want any rescue personnel getting hurt or worse attempting to rescue him - safety first after all.

So, with the info that you graciously provided, I will echo: "GREAT JOB"!

[Truck4 48]

Thanks for bringing up your original points, Chris. You're absolutely right.

And there was no urgency.

[EMTbravo 312]

I guessed (correctly) that someone would be critical of our tactics, as happens too often on this site.

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And, what's wrong with that? What are you afraid of? Obviously, an incident like this is going to be discussed.

If you're 100% confident in your tatics and the way the incident was handled, then there is no need to get defensive and make comments like that. Some people are ignorant and or pot stirrers, there are always those who like to "Monday morning quarterback", and some people honestly want to discuss the incident or share their OPINIONS or ask QUESTIONS. People discuss this incident, whether it be on this forum or not....and this forum allows you the avenue to get the facts out.

Seems like many people are afraid to post on here or don't post because they think they know it all and don't need objective and constructive conversation, or they do not want to share with others. Or, they want to sit back and whine about the posts on here without ever having made a post to contribute.

The good that can come from a thread like this is that people read and they learn what really happened from the people that were there.

Not to get this thread off topic, but if you have issues with this site, please EMAIL me at EMTBravo@EMTBravo.com with your complaint and proposed resolution.

[SHAC7301 0]

And, what's wrong with that? What are you afraid of? Obviously, an incident like this is going to be discussed.

If you're 100% confident in your tatics and the way the incident was handled, then there is no need to get defensive and make comments like that. Some people are ignorant and or pot stirrers, there are always those who like to "monday morning quarterback", and some people honestly want to discuss the incident or share their OPINIONS or ask QUESTIONS. People discuss this incident, whether it be on this forum or not....and this forum allows you the avenue to get the facts out.

Seems like many people are afraid to post on here or don't post because they think they know it all and don't need objective and constructive conversation, or they do not want to share with others. Or, they want to sit back and whine about the posts on here without even every having made a post to contribute.

The good that can come from a thread like this is that people read and they learn what really happened from the people that were there. 

Not to get this thread off topic, but if you have issues with this site, please EMAIL me at EMTBravo@EMTBravo.com with your complaint and proposed resolution.

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Seth,

I agree with most of your points. We can all learn from the questions and answers that are constructively posted on here regularly after incidents like these, in particulr when the actual participants contribute.

You also answered your own question to me when you said, "Some people are ignorant and or pot stirrers, there are always those who like to "monday morning quarterback." As you can see by my member number, I have been here since the beginning and visit this site daily. In cases when things have gotten too testy or destructive, like the PD vs FD or Paid vs Volunteer arguements, you have shut down the thread. I agree with you whole heartedly on that, so no further proposed resolution to these problems is necessary.

And yes, if i wasn't 100% confident in our tactics, I would not have posted my original posting. And yes, "The good that can come from a thread like this is that people read and they learn what really happened from the people that were there."

On a side note, I hope you are feeling/doing better.

And to Chris192, I appreciate your last posting/response.

And to Truck 4, I think that I did a pretty good job at answering Chris' questions/concerns, but you and I may have to disagree on the urgency issue.

If you want additional details about the incident, feel free to reach out to me.

Edited May 3, 2007 by SHAC7301

[huzzie59 75]

What everybody forgets is you cannot tell the "tone" in someone's question when it is written out. Chris 192's questions may have sounded less threatnening if we were together having a conversation.

I was there and agree with the questions and I agree with the answers.

We can't learn if the first thing we think about is someone's attaching us when they ask a question or two.

[Guest partyrock]

Why do we have to wait for someone to question the tactics before we can get beyond the good job back patting? All people like Chris and myself are ever looking for is the details of an unusual incident that made it work out so well. Thanks shac for the info.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I'm with you party and I think SHAC rexplained himself very well and the issue came to an understanding.

When we stop being critical of each other is when we lose grip of how serious our job is. I honestly feel we are no where's near as critical as we often should be. Pats on the back are nice...who doesn't want them. But pats on the back because something could have gone worse and didn't can reinforce bad judgement and tactics.

[helicopper 1,050]

We can't learn if the first thing we think about is someone's attacking us when they ask a question or two.

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You're so right! We can't learn if we don't look at what we did yesterday to figure out what to do tomorrow! This business is an ever-changing environment and the as soon as you say "you've seen it all" or "I know it all" you're going to be confronted by something new.

If we're not willing to question ourselves about what and how we did, we're going to hold ourselves back and not evolve as fast as we could!

A very wise person who I work with always starts his command post meetings with "leave your ego at the door". You can't take this stuff personally or it will eat you up!