EMS Badges

[Guest]

EMT or Medic - you don't need a badge nor a uniform.

You need to show not only the patient, but the crew, family and by-standers that you know what you are doing and carry yourself in a professional, confident manner. A badge nor a uniform doesn't mean jack.

Been doing EMS for 15 years, certified for 13 of them and only wore a uniform time to time when working EMS. Most of the stuff I have done is in my free time, in my personal clothes (no Van Halen shirts...) and because I know what I am doing and I keep everyone informed of what I plan on doing and what I have found....they respect me.

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well said. and there's nothing wrong w/ keepin ur van halen shirt underneath your vac shirt!

[RWC130 594]

Remember585,

"I know what I am doing"

YOU DO? LOL

[Remember585 815]

YOU DO?      LOL

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That's what they think....

And I don't have any Van Halen shirts....I did have Aerosmith a long time ago!

[AFS1970 504]

Badges for almost everybody stopped serving a functional purpose long before any of us were born. Badges in the Police and to a lesser extent the Fire service are sybolic of the shields that knights and other military units went into battle with. Since EMS is a relatively new service many of the traditions have been adapted from various Police & Fire traditions. Badges are one of those traditions.

The idea that EMS doesn't need badges is to me just a little backwards, in that it is almost as if we as the combined Emergency Services are saying EMS isn't really part of the traditions and culture that the rest of us are. No badges have nothing to do with how well you care for the patient, just as my fire department badge has nothing to do with how good or bad a firefighter I may be. That does not stop me from putting the badge on my uniform whenever I am in a uniform with some formality.

As function becomes more important that formality, look at all the departments in all three services that switched to badgeless golf shirts as their duty uniforms in recent years. But that does not mean that it is the only way to go, it is just one option.

I was at a Parade this year that featured the FDNY-EMS Pipes & Drums. Now there is an interesting adapted tradition. The FDNY & NYPD pipe bands were likely formed because there was a time in history when these departments were predominantly Irish. Since EMS is not predominantly Irish, I am guessing that the band formed out of a love for tradition, adapted from the rest of the emergency services. I thought that was pretty cool.

[mlfcemt093 0]

I was at a Parade this year that featured the FDNY-EMS Pipes & Drums. Now there is an interesting adapted tradition. The FDNY & NYPD pipe bands were likely formed because there was a time in history when these departments were predominantly Irish. Since EMS is not predominantly Irish, I am guessing that the band formed out of a love for tradition, adapted from the rest of the emergency services. I thought that was pretty cool.

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I appreciate your comment very thoughtful. I for one never thought about it, but I do agree w/ what ur saying I do believe it is out of respect for tradition.

[Goose 188]

Badges have little to do with parity within the emergency services. The fact is EMS has never enjoyed the same parity since its inception, badges or no badges. Having a bunch of unprofessional whackers (every agency has em) running around with and or flashing badges only makes our plight that much worse.

[AFS1970 504]

The lack of parity for EMS has more to do with time than anything else. EMS is a relatively new service. EMT as a title only goes back to 1978 nationally, The First Paramedic programs were the early 1970's. Where as Law Enforcement goes back almost as far as humans forming into towns and villages. Fire Protection soon followed. I heard a quote attributed to former NYC Mayor Ed Koch that listed the three Emergency Services as Police, Fire & Sanitation, and went on to explain how EMS was not an Emergency Service. Thankfully this attitude is changing, but I for one do not think it will be a quick change.

In a way I think that taking badges away from those EMS agencies that choose to use them is moving backwards from the parity goal. Like I said before if we try to start deciding who gets to be part of what tradition we are drawing lines in the sand that will ultimately work against us.

If you have someone who is using the badge impropperly, deal with the individual, not the service or agency. In that reguard, we must police ourselves. I can tell you however that most people that extend courtesy to badges and are not part of an Emergency Service never read what the badge says. They lump all badges in together. So taking badges away from EMS will not reflect any better or worse on all the other services that wear badges.

[helicopper 1,050]

I heard a quote attributed to former NYC Mayor Ed Koch that listed the three Emergency Services as Police, Fire & Sanitation, and went on to explain how EMS was not an Emergency Service.

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I remember those days. Their position was that not picking up the garbage in NYC creates a bigger crisis and public health emergency than the provision of EMS.

I don't think it is as big an issue in NYC now that the FD is running EMS but the lack of parity, employment protections, etc. is still a problem for the industry as a whole.

[RWC130 594]

I have a WC DES badge for sale # 642

$25.00

LOL!

[20y2 43]

I wonder if the other cops that read the thread laughed at the word 'badge'.

[Guest]

I know this is always a contentious issue, but if Parking Officers, Bus Drivers and Dispatchers, School Security, Auxiliary Police, Crossing Guards, Secutiry Guards, Park Rangers, etc. can have badges why can't EMS? I think there are a lot of people who have less reason to wear a badge than a member of an EMS agency, which is one of the three emergency services. I pass the people for the MTA who makes sure the buses show up on time every day to school and they have a gold shield around their necks, and it looks like a cop's badge to me (not NYPD, but still).

Why aren't the people who are always upset about EMS badges even more upset about all these other people having badges?

[nycemt728 49]

Couldn't agree more; you hit it on the head!

[Guest]

"Badges!!, We don't need no stinking badges!!" - Blazing Saddles

I think that if you are issued a badge to wear on your uniform at work/parade, then that's where it belongs.

As to EMT's or Firefighters wearing badges on their belts, around their necks, or in their wallets, I can't see the need for it. If it's a picture I.D. badge, then okay. But a 'tin sheild' I believe should be a no-no.

A couple of years ago, I was directing traffic at a MVA and traffic was stopped while the patient was being extracated. A well dressed gentleman in a Cherokee Jeep(with red lights in the grill) pulled up to me and flashed a badge at me. I didn't get a good look at it, but he asked me if he could 'cut through real quick, he was in a rush.' From where we were you could see what was happening at the accident scene. I gave him a dirty look and said, " are you f***ing kidding me?" and he rolled up his window. I should have told the police at the scene, but I didn't . I think that 'tin badges' can lead to trouble.

(I hate directing traffic)

[helicopper 1,050]

I know this is always a contentious issue, but if Parking Officers, Bus Drivers and Dispatchers, School Security, Auxiliary Police, Crossing Guards,  Secutiry Guards, Park Rangers, etc. can have badges why can't EMS?  I think there are a lot of people who have less reason to wear a badge than a member of an EMS agency, which is one of the three emergency services.  I pass the people for the MTA who makes sure the buses show up on time every day to school and they have a gold shield around their necks, and it looks like a cop's badge to me (not NYPD, but still).

Why aren't the people who are always upset about EMS badges even more upset about all these other people having badges?

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The difference is uniformed workers being issued badges and other identification items by their employers and EMT's and medics buying their own badges for the sake of "having a badge".

Uniformed workers who are issued badges by their employers obviously have to wear them. A volly going to a call in civilian clothes does not need a gold detective shield swinging from his neck.

Also remember - shields/badges are NOT identification. Produce one and you'll surely be asked to produce the corresponding photo identification card from your agency - hopefully with the shield number on it also. If you don't have one of those, the badge is really meaningless.

And if troopers don't need to wear badges/shields, surely nobody else on earth needs too!!!

Edited June 22, 2007 by Chris192

[Goose 188]

I know this is always a contentious issue, but if Parking Officers, Bus Drivers and Dispatchers, School Security, Auxiliary Police, Crossing Guards,  Secutiry Guards, Park Rangers, etc. can have badges why can't EMS?  I think there are a lot of people who have less reason to wear a badge than a member of an EMS agency, which is one of the three emergency services.  I pass the people for the MTA who makes sure the buses show up on time every day to school and they have a gold shield around their necks, and it looks like a cop's badge to me (not NYPD, but still).

Why aren't the people who are always upset about EMS badges even more upset about all these other people having badges?

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Get in the field and see how much good a shiny badge does you. Ill give you a hint...NONE. Like Chris said, NY does not issue EMS badges, hell they don't even have an official patch, we are talking about people going out and buying their own things. If you want to buff out in your town, its your business, but i'm telling you its not going to get you very far

[mlfcemt093 0]

hell they don't even have an official patch

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what kind of patch are u refering to? because I was led to believe that ny state does have an emt and medic patch w/ the state seal?

[Goose 188]

No, the DOH does not issue any form of identification, other than an EMT card.

Insignia & Patches

The NYS Department of Health does not issue any type of patch, shield or other worn insignia. In accordance with PHL § 3004(4) a Regional Emergency Medical Services Council (REMSCO) may issue, "uniform emergency technician insignia and certificates".

A person who chooses to wear a patch, shield or other insignia may only indicate on such, the level of care that they are certified by the Department to practice at. To do otherwise would be indicating certification not held by the provider which might also constitute a criminal offense.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/03-08.htm

[mlfcemt093 0]

No, the DOH does not issue any form of identification, other than an EMT card.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/03-08.htm

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Thanks for the proof I WILL PASS IT ON.........corrected again but we all learn from this forum informative link thanks

Edited June 23, 2007 by mlfcemt093

[MTACOP 0]

There are all kinds of people carrying badges / shields especially in the area we all work in. Bus drivers, train conductors, sanitation employees, etc.... Many moons ago I worked for a private ambulance service and we had badges as part of the regular uniform. I can't tell you how many times people thought I was a cop, and the BS that came with it.

Now as a police officer I keep my ID and shield in a small case and everything else in my wallet, even my Metrocard, which has a photo ID on the back, just in case.

I wish that law enforcement would get into the future and permit better uniforms, like the fire and EMS services.

Keep the badges on the dress jackets for ceremonies.

[efd184 59]

There are all kinds of people carrying badges / shields especially in the area we all work in. Bus drivers, train conductors, sanitation employees, etc.... Many moons ago I worked for a private ambulance service and we had badges as part of the regular uniform. I can't tell you how many times people thought I was a cop, and the BS that came with it.

Now as a police officer I keep my ID and shield in a small case and everything else in my wallet, even my Metrocard, which has a photo ID on the back, just in case.

I wish that law enforcement would get into the future and permit better uniforms, like the fire and EMS services.

Keep the badges on the dress jackets for ceremonies.

i actually had a MTA train conductor flash a badge at me and told me to pull over because he didnt like the fact that i didnt move as soon as the light turned green. i laughed at him then called the police who ended up issuing him a summons from what i was told.

bottom line dont flash the badge you just bought online to look cool!

[emtpjimd 1]

Badges in EMS have a limited purpose. I know of services that purchase and mandate the badge for the uniform; my service does not. Does it still make me a spanker for keeping my shirt pressed, collar brass applied, and all the required nametags/id? I think it's just being professional. If they required a shield, no big deal.

On the other hand, I do have to have one at my volly service where I am a supervisor. We are not issued photo ID's, or any ID's for that manner, and a shield is the only real way of identification to other personnel (PD/FD/Civilians) at a scene when my crews are in uniform and I'm in civvies. Remember, everything has a place, and everything can both be used properly or abused; everything depends on the maturity of the individual.

[Guest WolfEMT]

A few years ago, a friend of mine was a paid EMT in a town in NJ. At the time, EMS was under the auspices of the PD and wore the same uniform with the slight exception of the NJ EMT patch on the right shoulder as opposed to the PD patch. One night, there was a shooting, with a victim on the roof of a multi-story occupied multiple dwelling. Shortly after she arrived on the roof to treat the victim, there was some confusion as to the exact location of the armed perp; ground units thought he might still be on the roof. Although it turned out that he had fled to a building several blocks away, the fact that my friend wore the same uniform as the PD could have made a bad situation extremely worse.

The same thing goes for badges and shields. The shield that I have as part of my EMT uniform is a regular, run-of-the-mill kind that you see in Galls, Fire Authority, and other catalogs. In fact, there is one town in South Jersey that has the exact same kind as mine; the difference being that they have the State Seal in the middle and I have a Star of Life. With that in mind, I now pose a question to the board. Imagine you're a perp and you just committed an armed robbery. As you're fleeing the scene, you encounter two individuals from a distance who are wearing dress shirts and have silver badges displayed on their chests. You do not see any indicia that they are not police, your adrenaline is pumping since you just committed the robbery, you're armed, you're scared, and you don't want to get caught. What are you going to do? Are you going to run up to the two individuals and look closely at their badges or are you going to act in the moment?

Plain and simple, if you're not PD and you're issued a a badge, leave it for your parade uniform.

[Guest]

I remember those days. Their position was that not picking up the garbage in NYC creates a bigger crisis and public health emergency than the provision of EMS.

I don't think it is as big an issue in NYC now that the FD is running EMS but the lack of parity, employment protections, etc. is still a problem for the industry as a whole.

Just because NYC*EMS was the victim of a hostile takeover did not change anything the members of EMS do not have any parity all that changed was what little tradition there was (ie; uniforms, awards/commendations, SHIELDS, command structure etc..) is gone, A large part of EMS in NYC is still non-FDNY, there is a organized effort to send only FDNY buses to jobs that have the potential to be high profile, this is fact, I bring this up why? not sure i just read this quote and it got me going.....I am not anti anyone I am just Pro-EMS....

[Guest EFFP411]

I only have one badge, and its the one i was issued, and when on a call, I have some police authority. It is my Fire Police badge, and i was told that if its not on my vest or uniform, to keep it in my wallet or in the car. i have never used it intentionally. I know most of the cops around here by name, as they know me, so i dont have to keep it with me. Only once did it get me out of a ticket, only because it fell off my visor when i was looking for my reg, and the trooper asked what it was for. As for an EMS badge, i'll only get one if they make me liutenant next year. thats my 2 cents

Edited July 27, 2007 by EFFP411

[MerlinMedic 5]

I have nothing for or against the badges; my vollie squad awards every new EMT with a badge, but I do have a piece of trivia that I have not seen posted: Why do firefighters in NY state have badges? In the 1860s (or so) when there were fights at fire scenes, NY state passed a law that all firefighters had to have a badge for identifcaion purposes. Hence, fire carries a badge. An other piece of trivia: what badge do NYS Troops wear?

[helicopper 1,050]

I have nothing for or against the badges; my vollie squad awards every new EMT with a badge, but I do have a piece of trivia that I have not seen posted: Why do firefighters in NY state have badges? In the 1860s (or so) when there were fights at fire scenes, NY state passed a law that all firefighters had to have a badge for identifcaion purposes. Hence, fire carries a badge. An other piece of trivia: what badge do NYS Troops wear?

Interestingly enough, NY State Troopers do not wear shields (aka badges) on their uniforms. They are issued shields but as you can see, they don't resemble any other. They're so different, that troopers working in NYC were issued NYPD style detective shields so they would be more readily identifiable.

Badges may have served as "identification" years ago but today if you don't have an ID card to go with it the badge will immediately be suspect. Too many ways to procure fake ones (like the guy in Yonkers arrested a few years ago for selling fake badges) or real ones without any authorization (Galls, etc.).

[MerlinMedic 5]

Right, no photo ID,a badge should be meaningless. After 9/11 I would hope that all agencies would issue a photo ID. My vollie does, as do the commercial agencies in Dutchess. Interestingly, I don't recall if the municple agencies issue a photo ID, of course, when you arive on Big Red, it sorta negates the need for a photo ID.