Drug and Alcohol Testing

[NJMedic 96]

Not to start a war and I know this is a hot topic in the Boston area right now but I could never understand the push back on the concept of drug and alcohol testing in FD/PD/EMS. I know the concepts of how the testing will be done should be straight forward and steps including to address those with abuse problems but I don't think the headline "Firefighter's union againest drug testing" really doesn't goes over well with the public. I've never used drugs and never been under the influence at work so maybe its not a concern to me but I would certainly like to know the guy or girl who has my life, the lives of his partner/crew, and patients is clear headed.

Am I missing something or am I just simple minded

[OnTheWheel 43]

We were going to volunteer once to all take one, but they brought up "what if someone refuses, then theyll look guilty". No, they ARE guilty and I saw weed em out! No matter what profession we are all in, there is no room for some doped up moron next to you! Cause like I always say, its the moron that lives and the innocent guy next to him that bites it! Be safe and if you have a drug problem go work someplace else

[Future Fireman 4]

The stuff going on in Boston is because of the media's bias that just wants to put out 1 side of the story - the mayor's.

The following quotes were on EMTBravo New England because of this issue.

Topic Starter

Seems that the city of Boston is really enjoying kicking the Fd in the butt. Today on Fox 25 they had the "master of lies " Tommy Boy on the air to discuss the contract. What bothers me is the fact they ( BEing the Media) will not hear and post our side of the story. So sure it looks like we are money hungry grubs that dont do anything and want the huge cash. 95% of our fires dont make the news or the newspaper and people think we do nothing because of it! Just once I wish the local will come out and post the facts and slap the mayor around a little and expose him to what he is, a LIAR!!!!

Reply #1

I loved how Channel 7 last night at 4:30PM had a story about our press conference. The anchors in studio, Kim Khazi and some stiff, stated that we were AGAINST random drug testing. They go to Dan Hausle on scene in three lines into his story he completely CONTRIDICTS his own anchors when he states, FACTUALLY I might add, they we are NOT opposed to random drug testing, nor have we EVER been opposed to it. Every story I hear or read says that we are against it when Ed Kelly has stated at every opportunity that WE ARE NOT AGAINST RANDOM DRUG AND ALCOHOL TESTING!

Both of them are from BOSTON JAKES.

Mike

[helicopper 1,050]

We were going to volunteer once to all take one, but they brought up "what if someone refuses, then theyll look guilty". No, they ARE guilty and I saw weed em out! No matter what profession we are all in, there is no room for some doped up moron next to you! Cause like I always say, its the moron that lives and the innocent guy next to him that bites it! Be safe and if you have a drug problem go work someplace else

"Weed 'em out" - that's funny!!!

Test 'em all, annually or as often as necessary to insure that the public and ourselves are well protected. I don't want a drunk/stoned FF/PO/EMT coming to assist me so I have no problem with the testing!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Not to start a war and I know this is a hot topic in the Boston area right now but I could never understand the push back on the concept of drug and alcohol testing in FD/PD/EMS. I know the concepts of how the testing will be done should be straight forward and steps including to address those with abuse problems but I don't think the headline "Firefighter's union againest drug testing" really doesn't goes over well with the public. I've never used drugs and never been under the influence at work so maybe its not a concern to me but I would certainly like to know the guy or girl who has my life, the lives of his partner/crew, and patients is clear headed.

Am I missing something or am I just simple minded

We have testing for hiring, promotion and major cause (like MVA with vehicle). The city wants random testing but its a contractual issue.

THe union is not against it (they favor it) but they want the city to give something for it. which most members see as fair.

[NJMedic 96]

We have testing for hiring, promotion and major cause (like MVA with vehicle). The city wants random testing but its a contractual issue.

THe union is not against it (they favor it) but they want the city to give something for it. which most members see as fair.

I'm not in a union but not totally anti-union but how does one argue that give-backs should occur if the City offers a paineless medical test that involves collecting something your thrown down the drain anyway and will ensure the safety of it's members?

[jack10562 414]

Even Home Depot has a program for testing it's employees. I'm sure there are hundreds of other jobs where there is nobody's life or property at stake that require random testing, or mandatory testing under reasonable suspicion.

I can't see where the labor union even has to get involved. There is no trade-off. No bargaining. Submit to testing, that's it.

If anything and in addition if not already an employer policy, provide those employees that do test positive with one "get-out-of-jail-free" card:

test positive, and you go for in-patient treatment, period. Test positive a second time, ?....? open for discussion...

Everyone will be safer and healthier.

[ny10570 745]

I'm not in a union but not totally anti-union but how does one argue that give-backs should occur if the City offers a paineless medical test that involves collecting something your thrown down the drain anyway and will ensure the safety of it's members?

Part of the fun of municipal negotiations. Especially in an emergency service we have to use what ever little piece of leverage we can to get a fair wage out of the city. They try and MF us for every nickle and dime and we do the same.

[FirNaTine 370]

Some Depts. have the 3 strikes your out policy. Then again it depends on who you are. We've had guys forced to resign after going away to "Club Medical" aka "Camp Rum and Coke" 3 times, but others were allowed to stay on, even after they exceeded this policy because of who they were. I say test everyone, from the Commissioners and Chiefs of a Dept. right down to the Probies. You don't like it QUIT! Only the guilty are afraid and make excuses. If you want to be called a Professional then act like one.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Even Home Depot has a program for testing it's employees. I'm sure there are hundreds of other jobs where there is nobody's life or property at stake that require random testing, or mandatory testing under reasonable suspicion.

Yes, its called condition of employment. And the unions are not against it, but we work under a legal contract that covers all aspects of the condition of employment. When either side wants something changed you negociate a new contract.

I can't see where the labor union even has to get involved. There is no trade-off. No bargaining. Submit to testing, that's it.

See above. Thats not how conract law works.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I'm not in a union but not totally anti-union but how does one argue that give-backs should occur if the City offers a paineless medical test that involves collecting something your thrown down the drain anyway and will ensure the safety of it's members?

When the union requests something added to the contract, the city insists we "pay" for it. So when the city has asked for this, is it not fair that we ask them to "pay" for it.

[moggie6 54]

In regards to Union's and Drug Testing Policies. I personally don't feel there is a single Union out there that is opposed to drug testing for their members. From past experience the Union's do have concerns with how drug testing will be conducted, where the member will be required to go, and that the results will be kept confidential. For example, could the drug testing policy be used to "punish" a member by the employeer? Will they make him travel high and low to the facilitiy to be tested? What information will be exposed from the drug test? What if a member of the Union has a medical condition that doesn't effect his job but comes up in drug testing? That member has a right to keep that information from his employer. In the fire service it can be a safety issue that the Union is looking out for as well. I know of one department that would take a rig out of service while a member was being drug tested. Per the contract the minimum manning has now dropped. Is this a safe practice? I don't use drugs but what about our members that suffer from post traumatic stress disorder? It is a recognized medical problem and if someone uses drugs because they have not been able to cope with the "stress of the job" should they be held responsible? Maybe they should have the chance to go to Employee Assistance and resolve the issue, after all it's considred a job incurred injury. I hope this answered some of the questions in regards to drug testing and the Unions. I can't speak of every Union out there, but this is what my take on it is as a Union Member.

[OnTheWheel 43]

I don't use drugs but what about our members that suffer from post traumatic stress disorder? It is a recognized medical problem and if someone uses drugs because they have not been able to cope with the "stress of the job" should they be held responsible? Maybe they should have the chance to go to Employee Assistance and resolve the issue, after all it's considred a job incurred injury. I hope this answered some of the questions in regards to drug testing and the Unions. I can't speak of every Union out there, but this is what my take on it is as a Union Member.

Using drugs to cope with stress is one thing, abusing those drugs is another and they should be dealt with accordingly. Everyone uses prescription drugs one time or another, but some WEAK people abuse them and thats when they put people in danger!

[Guest FFNick]

On the surface, it's a no brainer, and it makes no sense to fight.

The reality, however, as stated above, is making sure the program is fair, properly administered, and has taken into account as many of the "what ifs" before they happen.