New York State Police to end Air Rescue partnership

[INIT915 1,119]

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=702337

COLONIE -- Town paramedics are pulling out of a prestigious, 15-year partnership with State Police to staff helicopter rescue missions throughout the Capital Region.

On Sept. 1, Colonie will end its relationship with the Lifeguard Air Rescue Program out of concerns about the cost, liability and the safety of its paramedics as well as a desire to refocus their efforts, Supervisor Paula Mahan.

[RWC130 594]

Who will provide ALS on the Chopper

for the New York State Police?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

More then likely anyone else who would like to make a contract to the service.

Very sad to see a program end. The question I have is who is the commercial medevac service for the areas they also assisted with? I know that law enforcement matters took priority for the helo's so I imaging there has to be another service that covers those areas as well. I'm not sure where the financing issue lays with all this and there is always more cost then what appears but if the are doing it as an on call basis...$150,000 isn't as much as it sounds..but for on call and not permanent staffed? How did they work it if there was a call and those approved paramedics were tied up on calls?

[INIT915 1,119]

More then likely anyone else who would like to make a contract to the service.

Very sad to see a program end. The question I have is who is the commercial medevac service for the areas they also assisted with? I know that law enforcement matters took priority for the helo's so I imaging there has to be another service that covers those areas as well. I'm not sure where the financing issue lays with all this and there is always more cost then what appears but if the are doing it as an on call basis...$150,000 isn't as much as it sounds..but for on call and not permanent staffed? How did they work it if there was a call and those approved paramedics were tied up on calls?

LifeNetNY has two units in the region as well.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Thanks for the info brother.

[Guest WCDES636]

Too bad. The people in the program were pretty sharp. Maybe Mobile Life will try another single Medic State Police Program.

[STAT213 332]

Too bad. The people in the program were pretty sharp. Maybe Mobile Life will try another single Medic State Police Program.

Huh? Maybe the cops should leave the medivacs to the professionals. I never interacted with the Colonie program, but I did have a number of interactions with the single medic program from Newburgh. Not a fan.

Hopefully, the state police will also choose to focus their efforts on law enforcement.

[INIT915 1,119]

Huh? Maybe the cops should leave the medivacs to the professionals. I never interacted with the Colonie program, but I did have a number of interactions with the single medic program from Newburgh. Not a fan.

Hopefully, the state police will also choose to focus their efforts on law enforcement.

Well, down in Newburgh, if it wasn't for the SP unit you'd have lots of gaps in coverage. LifeNet seems to prioritze interfacility transports (pre-arranged insurance) versus scene calls. In June, there were several dates that all three LNNY units were down for "service". Leaving ONLY the SP Unit.

Perhaps you could be more specific about your complaints? "Not a fan" is a little, well, vauge.

[NJMedic 96]

Huh? Maybe the cops should leave the medivacs to the professionals. I never interacted with the Colonie program, but I did have a number of interactions with the single medic program from Newburgh. Not a fan.

Hopefully, the state police will also choose to focus their efforts on law enforcement.

Yes the "professional" medevac programs. They must be the ones with the outstanding safety record.

[RWC130 594]

Any idea on ALS replacements?

Will the State Police continue to cover Medivac Calls?

Maybe someday State Trooper Paramedics?

[Piranha174 37]

Huh? Maybe the cops should leave the medivacs to the professionals. I never interacted with the Colonie program, but I did have a number of interactions with the single medic program from Newburgh. Not a fan.

Hopefully, the state police will also choose to focus their efforts on law enforcement.

And what type of professional are you referring to? PD Airships around NY routinely fly with Medics on board. For Example Nassau County PD launches a ship with a PO Pilot and PO Medic and their does not apear to be any complaints. So based on your response, why don't you think the same type of service with a Trooper Pilot and Civilian Medic do not work in a rural enviornment.

Not a fan of what??? A private organization running a helicopter without the training of a Police Aviation Unit and charging people a astronomical fee for a ride to the Hospital!!

[tdc202 0]

Too bad. The people in the program were pretty sharp. Maybe Mobile Life will try another single Medic State Police Program

I read the story and didn't see anything in it about Mobile Life's plan.......Did I mis something?

[ace84 100]

Huh? Maybe the cops should leave the medivacs to the professionals. I never interacted with the Colonie program, but I did have a number of interactions with the single medic program from Newburgh. Not a fan.

Hopefully, the state police will also choose to focus their efforts on law enforcement.

WOW!! I bet your not a big fan !!! of us cops being medics on a SWAT team too.

[helicopper 1,050]

Huh? Maybe the cops should leave the medivacs to the professionals. I never interacted with the Colonie program, but I did have a number of interactions with the single medic program from Newburgh. Not a fan.

Hopefully, the state police will also choose to focus their efforts on law enforcement.

I hope that slight is directed at the medical side of the operation and not the aviation side because the State Police pilots are exceptionally well trained and experienced. Many have military flying backgrounds and experience to draw upon as well.

If it is directed at the medical side I'll agree with you that you can't just take any street medic and make them a flight medic overnight. There should be comprehensive training, standards and quality controls regardless of the flight medics background. But before you start throwing stones in a glass house, I'd point out that not all nurses are cut out to be EMT's/Paramedics or flight crew - they need the same type of specialized training and experience!

I'm not a fan of any operation that doesn't have the highest possible standards and training, especially one as difficult as medevac but to condemn the State Police - who were doing this long before Aeromed/STAT-Flight/LifeNet came on the scene - is a bit much.

[Goose 188]

Word is Mohawk Ambulance put a bid in for the contract. Shame that the Town of Colonie couldn't get it's shizzie straight and continue to provide what appeared to be a quality partnership.

[Guest WCDES636]

Huh? Maybe the cops should leave the medivacs to the professionals. I never interacted with the Colonie program, but I did have a number of interactions with the single medic program from Newburgh. Not a fan.

Hopefully, the state police will also choose to focus their efforts on law enforcement.

Sorry Rob,

The whole Mobile Life thing was meant as a joke. Living in the woods has dulled your sense of humor.

[INIT915 1,119]

On the update:

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story...?storyID=702758

COLONIE -- The Town Board Thursday night scheduled a public hearing to consider renegotiating a contract to provide paramedic services aboard State Police helicopters.

[STAT213 332]

Sorry Rob,

The whole Mobile Life thing was meant as a joke. Living in the woods has dulled your sense of humor.

Yeah Dave,

I was a little shocked to see you post that. Should've seen through it. I bit though....

[STAT213 332]

Ok, so here is what led me to post what I did on this subject. A little background. I worked as a Flight Medic for two programs in NY State for 6 years, both of which competed with the NY State Police. This clearly led me to a certain opinion. I interacted with both the medical crews and the pilots of these organizations many times and was never a fan. Well, I take that back, I did have some positive interactions with the pilots. The medical crews I met were generally in over their heads and their patients suffered for it. Now, some of the ones I met were nice and professional in their demeanor. Some. My grandmother was a nice woman, doesn't mean she belongs in a medivac ship.

Chris said it best when he wrote about air medicine being a specialty. It is. You cannot jump from a ground ambulance into a helicopter and provide the level of care provided by a trained air medical team. This is what the State Police does in the majority of their coverage areas. I would have no issue with them providing transport services IF they contracted with an organization or organizations who committed to training their medical crews to the national standards for air medical crews. It is a specialty, plain and simple. And yes, there are nurses and medics who have no place doing air medical transport. Its not a medic thing, not a nurse thing. Its a training thing.

Ace84 mentioned that I would likely have a problem with cops being medics on a SWAT team. Nope, not at all. As long as they are actively practicing paramedics who can provide the BEST possible care for their fallen comrades. Take a cop, throw 'em through medic school and CONTOMS and pretend that they will be able to provide the best care; that I would be against.

Chris also mentioned that the NY State Police has highly trained and experienced pilots flying their aircraft. Chris, back in 2002 when I met one of the LG 17 pilots on the pad @ WMC, he told me had had in neighborhood of 200 hours of flight time. Yikes. You can't get an EMS job with less than 1500 hours most places. Some of them are ex-military, many are not. They're just troopers who thought it would be cool to fly. They're right, it is cool to fly. But, its not cool to put someone with a few hundred hours at the stick of a Bell 407 or 430 and have them land it in tight night LZ.

Chris, you even state that you want anyone doing the job to conform to the highest possible standards. Well, I can tell you that unless something has drastically changed, the NY State Police medivac program does not do this. They do not provide the highest level of care at one of their bases. Nor have they tried in their many years of existence. Yes, they were here before Aeromed/STAT/Life Net. They provided a service when no one else could or would. But when the times, tempo and service of air medicine changed, they just kept on with the same song. A couple of verses changed, but still the same song. Single medic, limited equipment, street protocols. So, that's where my slight comes from. Its not from left field, its from years of experience in the field.

[helicopper 1,050]

Ok, so here is what led me to post what I did on this subject. A little background. I worked as a Flight Medic for two programs in NY State for 6 years, both of which competed with the NY State Police. This clearly led me to a certain opinion. I interacted with both the medical crews and the pilots of these organizations many times and was never a fan. Well, I take that back, I did have some positive interactions with the pilots. The medical crews I met were generally in over their heads and their patients suffered for it. Now, some of the ones I met were nice and professional in their demeanor. Some. My grandmother was a nice woman, doesn't mean she belongs in a medivac ship.

Chris said it best when he wrote about air medicine being a specialty. It is. You cannot jump from a ground ambulance into a helicopter and provide the level of care provided by a trained air medical team. This is what the State Police does in the majority of their coverage areas. I would have no issue with them providing transport services IF they contracted with an organization or organizations who committed to training their medical crews to the national standards for air medical crews. It is a specialty, plain and simple. And yes, there are nurses and medics who have no place doing air medical transport. Its not a medic thing, not a nurse thing. Its a training thing.

Ace84 mentioned that I would likely have a problem with cops being medics on a SWAT team. Nope, not at all. As long as they are actively practicing paramedics who can provide the BEST possible care for their fallen comrades. Take a cop, throw 'em through medic school and CONTOMS and pretend that they will be able to provide the best care; that I would be against.

Chris also mentioned that the NY State Police has highly trained and experienced pilots flying their aircraft. Chris, back in 2002 when I met one of the LG 17 pilots on the pad @ WMC, he told me had had in neighborhood of 200 hours of flight time. Yikes. You can't get an EMS job with less than 1500 hours most places. Some of them are ex-military, many are not. They're just troopers who thought it would be cool to fly. They're right, it is cool to fly. But, its not cool to put someone with a few hundred hours at the stick of a Bell 407 or 430 and have them land it in tight night LZ.

Chris, you even state that you want anyone doing the job to conform to the highest possible standards. Well, I can tell you that unless something has drastically changed, the NY State Police medivac program does not do this. They do not provide the highest level of care at one of their bases. Nor have they tried in their many years of existence. Yes, they were here before Aeromed/STAT/Life Net. They provided a service when no one else could or would. But when the times, tempo and service of air medicine changed, they just kept on with the same song. A couple of verses changed, but still the same song. Single medic, limited equipment, street protocols. So, that's where my slight comes from. Its not from left field, its from years of experience in the field.

With this perspective, I'd be hard pressed to disagree with your points except the one about an SP pilot with only 200 hours. I know for a fact they require far more hours than that before they can be PIC.

Thanks for expanding on your earlier comments!

[STAT213 332]

With this perspective, I'd be hard pressed to disagree with your points except the one about an SP pilot with only 200 hours. I know for a fact they require far more hours than that before they can be PIC.

Thanks for expanding on your earlier comments!

Chris,

No problem. It's a tough issue for sure.

My info about the trooper came right from this guy's mouth. Nice dude, was PIC of a 407 at the time. We talked a number of times when they flew in. Maybe he was busting my stones about the time he had, but it didn't seem like it.

Fly safe!

[INIT915 1,119]

With this perspective, I'd be hard pressed to disagree with your points except the one about an SP pilot with only 200 hours. I know for a fact they require far more hours than that before they can be PIC.

Thanks for expanding on your earlier comments!

I can second that. I just did a little research looking back to 2002, and no one at that time or today had only 200 credited.

[Guest WCDES636]

With this perspective, I'd be hard pressed to disagree with your points except the one about an SP pilot with only 200 hours. I know for a fact they require far more hours than that before they can be PIC.

Thanks for expanding on your earlier comments!

Chris I also worked for Stat back when Stat213 did. Many times we had contact with Pilots from SP/Lifeguard 17 out of Stewart and SP/Lifeguard out of Albany. I talked to 1 pilot who said he had just cracked 300 hours on a flight from Stewart.

I can remeber the Stat Pilots saying that was nuts. At the time Rocky Mountain Helicopters required 2500 hours minimum to fly in this area.

I can assume and hope that it has changed for the SP.

[NWFDMedic 58]

Ok, so here is what led me to post what I did on this subject. A little background. I worked as a Flight Medic for two programs in NY State for 6 years, both of which competed with the NY State Police. This clearly led me to a certain opinion. I interacted with both the medical crews and the pilots of these organizations many times and was never a fan. Well, I take that back, I did have some positive interactions with the pilots. The medical crews I met were generally in over their heads and their patients suffered for it. Now, some of the ones I met were nice and professional in their demeanor. Some. My grandmother was a nice woman, doesn't mean she belongs in a medivac ship.

Chris said it best when he wrote about air medicine being a specialty. It is. You cannot jump from a ground ambulance into a helicopter and provide the level of care provided by a trained air medical team. This is what the State Police does in the majority of their coverage areas. I would have no issue with them providing transport services IF they contracted with an organization or organizations who committed to training their medical crews to the national standards for air medical crews. It is a specialty, plain and simple. And yes, there are nurses and medics who have no place doing air medical transport. Its not a medic thing, not a nurse thing. Its a training thing.

Chris, you even state that you want anyone doing the job to conform to the highest possible standards. Well, I can tell you that unless something has drastically changed, the NY State Police medivac program does not do this. They do not provide the highest level of care at one of their bases. Nor have they tried in their many years of existence. Yes, they were here before Aeromed/STAT/Life Net. They provided a service when no one else could or would. But when the times, tempo and service of air medicine changed, they just kept on with the same song. A couple of verses changed, but still the same song. Single medic, limited equipment, street protocols. So, that's where my slight comes from. Its not from left field, its from years of experience in the field.

I really don't know why we are having this conversation in 2008. Maybe when you were up here in 2002 you may have seen some issues, but I can tell you as a medic at the time that a good number of ground crews were relieved to see the SP helicopter rather than StatFlight.

The Mobile Life medics that currently man LG-17 have a great deal of experience, including critical care nursing certification, CCEMT-P, national standard flight training, and years of flight and ground experience. Mobile Life doesn't just throw anyone from the back of an ambulance onto a ship; there is a selection process and extensive flight training. Although I don't always agree with 100% of the selections (who always agrees with their boss), the medics on the helicopter are some of our best and do an excellent job. Their treatment also stands up to the rigors of our internal QI program as well as the region's aviation committee which I believe is still led by Dr. Larsen.

The LifeNet medics and nurses also go through national standard training and have a lot more experience with interfacility transfers. They do a great job on scene and I will not hesitate to compliment their work. They came to one of my scenes about two years ago and totally took control of a patient I had difficulty managing beyond effective BLS. The LifeNet crews I've had recently are great not only with their patient care, but also in their interactions with on-scene personnel. I don't see many helicopters these days because most of my calls are within a short drive of a trauma center, but I wouldn't have any issue calling for them if needed.

I can remember a time when the StatFlight and Lifeguard/MLSS crews were at odds and fighting but it just doesn't happen today. I think the region should be happy that we have two more than competent services available for the air medical transport needs of the Hudson Valley.

[Monty 35]

More then likely anyone else who would like to make a contract to the service.

Very sad to see a program end. The question I have is who is the commercial medevac service for the areas they also assisted with? I know that law enforcement matters took priority for the helo's so I imaging there has to be another service that covers those areas as well. I'm not sure where the financing issue lays with all this and there is always more cost then what appears but if the are doing it as an on call basis...$150,000 isn't as much as it sounds..but for on call and not permanent staffed? How did they work it if there was a call and those approved paramedics were tied up on calls?

On the update:

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story...?storyID=702758

It's good to see the update. It's interesting to see the changes from the late 90's. The board used to be a very closely run ship, along with the Town Supervisor. I've heard there's a lot more animosity now.

Albany Med has a more 'traditional' helicopter medivac service. The Colonie / NYSP is more specialized - at least in some ways. I know they were trained to do hoist work and insertions (instead of just transport), rope rescue, confined space, water rescue. I think that the assigned paramedic was the last to be called for normal emergencies. This is really not much different than if you call for a medevac and it's already on another call. You either call in the next unit or come up with another plan.

As I was reading through this, I imagined that the qualified paramedics would end up with the commercial provider puerly as flight medics. Hopefully though, it looks like it may not come to this.

[ny10570 745]

So the medics are picked up by SP as they're needed for medevac? Are SP birds always up or are they standing by waiting for calls?

[helicopper 1,050]

So the medics are picked up by SP as they're needed for medevac? Are SP birds always up or are they standing by waiting for calls?

To my knowledge, most of them are stationed with the aviation unit at their bases around the state. There may be rare occasions where a medic unit responds to join the helicopter or where the medic rides along on a law enforcement mission.

As for the SP aircraft, they're usually on the ground awaiting a call unless they have a mission or training or something. Because of the territory they cover, regular patrol flights are impractical.

[Monty 35]

So the medics are picked up by SP as they're needed for medevac? Are SP birds always up or are they standing by waiting for calls?

The Albany Airport, is actually in the Town Of Colonie. There is a medic that is assigned as the Flight Medic. I believe during the shift, they can be on a 'roving' type patrol and assist with other calls, but not necessarily the lead medic. They get dispatched by the Town Dispatch to respond to the airport.

Obviously they also do training with the NYSP on a regular basis. I don't know, but suspect that if the helicopter is called for Police support / Law Enforcement activities that they don't carry the medics - and obviously if already committed would not be available for S&R / EMS (likewise if the weather minimums cannot be met because of fog etc). But that's no different from any other situation where you need plan B.

http://www.colonie.org/ems/index.html#anchor45252 talks a bit about their special ops division (although it looks like it might be a bit out of date, quoting 1998).