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60 Control and EMS dispatching

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Question:

60 Control has taken over EMS dispatching for a number of VACs and VFDs (which is a good thing). I assume that 60 Control is paging them over whatever band their pagers operate on. Now, what is the deal with some agencies having individual members calling in on a radio? Is this the County radio or a VAC/VFD owned radio frequency or county channel?

Observation:

Wouldn't it be better if 60 Control had a "hotline" # (they may even have one, i have no idea) that the crew members would call to let Control know the status of the crew and once a crew is completed they can put that over the pagers. Putnam largely operated like this (at least when i was there) and i think it was a pretty decent way of doings things.

Overall it seems a far better way of doing things to me.

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My Christmas wish would be for 60 Control to dispatch ALL MEDICS, VAC's and FD's in the COUNTY that way I wouldn't have to do it. PLEASE SANTA CAN YOU HELP ME OUT.

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Wouldn't it be better if 60 Control had a "hotline" # (they may even have one, i have no idea) that the crew members would call to let Control know the status of the crew and once a crew is completed they can put that over the pagers. Putnam largely operated like this (at least when i was there) and i think it was a pretty decent way of doings things.

You mean the call in line thing we still have that. It's a pretty good idea there is one sytem out there where I think you just call and then press a number or something for what your responding as and wether or not your going to the scene. I forget the details but you didn't have to speak to any dispatchers and it was bascially the same thing I heard about it in the scene support class when I took it.

Edited by texastom791

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Question:

60 Control has taken over EMS dispatching for a number of VACs and VFDs (which is a good thing). I assume that 60 Control is paging them over whatever band their pagers operate on. Now, what is the deal with some agencies having individual members calling in on a radio? Is this the County radio or a VAC/VFD owned radio frequency or county channel?

Observation:

Wouldn't it be better if 60 Control had a "hotline" # (they may even have one, i have no idea) that the crew members would call to let Control know the status of the crew and once a crew is completed they can put that over the pagers. Putnam largely operated like this (at least when i was there) and i think it was a pretty decent way of doings things.

Overall it seems a far better way of doing things to me.

Initially at our agency, when dispatched by 60 control, we use our VHF portables and VAC owned frequency to call in who is going where(usually NOT picked up by a repeater relay due to the low strength of our portables). Once we have a crew assembled, somebody calls 60 from the ambulance on a UHF county channel to say we're enroute to the scene (so they don't keep toning us out)...there are some variations, but that's generally what seems to work for us. Hope that helps...

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Yeah, i just don't get the whole call in with your own portable thing. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense because as the above poster stated, 90% of the time you're not hitting a repeater and thus wasting your time and when 60 Control or any dispatch for that matter, hears you or a fragment of your message and tries to acknowledge the guy/gal on the portable never hears it and the Dispatcher is calling 12 times for whatever unit it is.

I really think that just calling a hot line # and being like "XXX VAC EMT/Driver enroute to the station" is a lot more advantageous.

Also, i thought the new County radios were for mutual aid/MCIs and other disasters as oppose to day to day operations?

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My Christmas wish would be for 60 Control to dispatch ALL MEDICS, VAC's and FD's in the COUNTY that way I wouldn't have to do it. PLEASE SANTA CAN YOU HELP ME OUT.

Sorry to disturb you from doing your............JOB!

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Sorry to disturb you from doing your............JOB!

I'm pretty sure oneeye is a cop. Personally I'd rather have him out doing that job while the facility that was created to dispatch were allowed to do their job. We spend enough money training, paying and equipping police officers that we should at least be so kind as to allow them to police.

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My Christmas wish would be for 60 Control to dispatch ALL MEDICS, VAC's and FD's in the COUNTY that way I wouldn't have to do it. PLEASE SANTA CAN YOU HELP ME OUT.

Sorry to disturb you from doing your............JOB!

Stop being a tool.

Devoid of knowing where he works and the dynamics of the system, him dispatching EMS could very well be a drain on precious air time or just overly distracting/frustrating while trying to dispatch and communicate with PD units.

60 Control should probably be dispatching all EMS and Fire to be quite honest, i just don't know how possible that is right now.

Edited by Goose

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You mean the call in line thing we still have that. It's a pretty good idea there is one sytem out there where I think you just call and then press a number or something for what your responding as and wether or not your going to the scene. I forget the details but you didn't have to speak to any dispatchers and it was bascially the same thing I heard about it in the scene support class when I took it.

Chappaqua VAC uses this system. It's kind of a neat concept. Call a number, enter a PIN, enter what position you are covering and where you are going to. I believe it is the fact that they use this system that is on of the biggest barriers of getting them to switch over to 60 Control, as 60 Control does not (and from what I'm told has no plans in the immediate future to) support such a system. Would be a neat feature if they did however. Who knows, maybe that has or will change(d).

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Personally I like the fact that Departments have portables. I know right away who is comming and who is needed. The call in via phone may work great for a single agency dispatch, but I dont know how well it would work here for muti - agency.

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How about set crews 24/7? Then only one person needs to call in.

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How about set crews 24/7? Then only one person needs to call in.

lol....... I needed a good laugh. Thanks. Your funny.

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If its not broken, don't fix it.

I work EMS in Tarrytown (and NYC but that's another story). The system for dispatching EMS and Fire in Tarrytown is working fine. I can see problems with 60 dispatching countywide. The local Police know certain areas and issues. For example, in Tarrytown there is a large apartment complex where you need to ask the caller for the address, building number, and apartment number. If any of that information is missing, then there will be a response delay. All the local cops know this but a 60 dispatcher that is not familiar may miss this, creating a delayed response. Also, in the heat of the moment, when a citizen calls in an emergency, they may not be able to articulate information accurately. Main street in what city? In Sleepy Hollow, there is a North Broadway and a New Broadway...a 60 dispatcher may write down "N. Broadway" and dispatch to the wrong location. Also, the local cops know the local regular callers, the trouble spots where hazards may exist. I also feel that when 60 dispatchs for calls on the NYS Thruway or Tappan Zee Bridge (Tarrytown jurisdiction) that the dispatch information is incomplete or not accurate. Several times, me and my partner have driven for miles because the dispatch information was not accurate. It makes a huge difference when you are dispatched southbound and the accident is northbound. Incorrect mile markers, told that the accident is on 287 when its on an exit ramp.

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I work EMS in Tarrytown (and NYC but that's another story). The system for dispatching EMS and Fire in Tarrytown is working fine. I can see problems with 60 dispatching countywide. The local Police know certain areas and issues. For example, in Tarrytown there is a large apartment complex where you need to ask the caller for the address, building number, and apartment number. If any of that information is missing, then there will be a response delay. All the local cops know this but a 60 dispatcher that is not familiar may miss this, creating a delayed response.

If it is a 911 call and the PD transfers it to 60 Control, that information comes up on the ANI/ALI screen. Also, all Dispatchers will ask for an address, if it is a private house or for an apartment #. We have several complexes like this around Westchester and don't seem to have a problem obtaining this information. For example, in Eastchester's jurisdiction, we have places like this along Garth Road. (Wait a second, I am from northern Westchester, how do I know about Eastchester? Oh yeah, our CAD system which, despite what many would like to believe, is smarter then most people). It all depends on the jurisdiction to step up and do a little homework to make things as flawless as possible.

Also, in the heat of the moment, when a citizen calls in an emergency, they may not be able to articulate information accurately. Main street in what city?

"911 What is the address of your emergency? OK, what town are you in? Is that near the corner of XYZ Street?" Another simple fix.

In Sleepy Hollow, there is a North Broadway and a New Broadway...a 60 dispatcher may write down "N. Broadway" and dispatch to the wrong location.

We don't write anything down, we enter data into our CAD. If we put in 100 N Broadway that IS North Broadway. They tell us New Broadway, it goes in, we get cross streets, an apparatus assignment by call type and a map showing the area.

Also, the local cops know the local regular callers, the trouble spots where hazards may exist. I also feel that when 60 dispatchs for calls on the NYS Thruway or Tappan Zee Bridge (Tarrytown jurisdiction) that the dispatch information is incomplete or not accurate. Several times, me and my partner have driven for miles because the dispatch information was not accurate. It makes a huge difference when you are dispatched southbound and the accident is northbound. Incorrect mile markers, told that the accident is on 287 when its on an exit ramp.

We don't see the incident, and for that matter neither do most 911 centers, so we are at the mercy of what the caller tells us. 95% of the time when there is an incident on the Thruway or TZB we get it from THE THRUWAY! So if they, being the local Police for that area, can't provide the right info, how is TPD, IPD or 60 Control going to dispatch it? Exactly how it is given to them.

I've heard every point people have mentioned, all the questions and explained just about everything - mainly to my own members, to our PD and to my Village Board when we were making our switch to 60 Control. Hopefully I answered some of your thoughts.

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If it is a 911 call and the PD transfers it to 60 Control, that information comes up on the ANI/ALI screen. Also, all Dispatchers will ask for an address, if it is a private house or for an apartment #. We have several complexes like this around Westchester and don't seem to have a problem obtaining this information. For example, in Eastchester's jurisdiction, we have places like this along Garth Road. (Wait a second, I am from northern Westchester, how do I know about Eastchester? Oh yeah, our CAD system which, despite what many would like to believe, is smarter then most people). It all depends on the jurisdiction to step up and do a little homework to make things as flawless as possible.

"911 What is the address of your emergency? OK, what town are you in? Is that near the corner of XYZ Street?" Another simple fix.

We don't write anything down, we enter data into our CAD. If we put in 100 N Broadway that IS North Broadway. They tell us New Broadway, it goes in, we get cross streets, an apparatus assignment by call type and a map showing the area.

Also, the local cops know the local regular callers, the trouble spots where hazards may exist. I also feel that when 60 dispatchs for calls on the NYS Thruway or Tappan Zee Bridge (Tarrytown jurisdiction) that the dispatch information is incomplete or not accurate. Several times, me and my partner have driven for miles because the dispatch information was not accurate. It makes a huge difference when you are dispatched southbound and the accident is northbound. Incorrect mile markers, told that the accident is on 287 when its on an exit ramp.

We don't see the incident, and for that matter neither do most 911 centers, so we are at the mercy of what the caller tells us. 95% of the time when there is an incident on the Thruway or TZB we get it from THE THRUWAY! So if they, being the local Police for that area, can't provide the right info, how is TPD, IPD or 60 Control going to dispatch it? Exactly how it is given to them.

I've heard every point people have mentioned, all the questions and explained just about everything - mainly to my own members, to our PD and to my Village Board when we were making our switch to 60 Control. Hopefully I answered some of your thoughts.

What he said!!!!!!!!

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NYMedic-- 60 control can do all those things as well as any police department. All the information that is asked by the dispatchers is logged in the computer and the personality s are taken out of it. IE its "Mrs Smith again complaining" "go check it out" is that good or bad it can be debated. I think if you error you error on the side of caution. Street locations, apartment numbers, all those things can easily be taken care of by control there by freeing up other agencies. just my random thoughts this morning. BTW I live in one of those complexes you speak about.

Couldn't have said it better myself

Edited by firecapt32

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"If it is a 911 call and the PD transfers it to 60 Control, that information comes up on the ANI/ALI screen." NEWS FLASH! Not all information on the ANI/ALI screen is accurate. The local cops can recognize this and make the necessary correction. Also, why incorporate an extra step by having the cop transfer the call to 60 when he can just initiate the page? Sounds like we can eliminate the middle man. "Oh yeah, our CAD system which, despite what many would like to believe, is smarter then most people". So in other words, you'r basically saying that it takes no brain to dispatch? Just rely on CAD..... after all, computers NEVER crash. Right? "It all depends on the jurisdiction to step up and do a little homework to make things as flawless as possible". Like I said, If its not broken, don't fix it.

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"If it is a 911 call and the PD transfers it to 60 Control, that information comes up on the ANI/ALI screen." NEWS FLASH! Not all information on the ANI/ALI screen is accurate. The local cops can recognize this and make the necessary correction. Also, why incorporate an extra step by having the cop transfer the call to 60 when he can just initiate the page? Sounds like we can eliminate the middle man. "Oh yeah, our CAD system which, despite what many would like to believe, is smarter then most people". So in other words, you'r basically saying that it takes no brain to dispatch? Just rely on CAD..... after all, computers NEVER crash. Right? "It all depends on the jurisdiction to step up and do a little homework to make things as flawless as possible". Like I said, If its not broken, don't fix it.

You should actually come and see what is done at 60 Control, before you comment. A good dispatcher is supplimented by his/her CAD.

1 question to you! Does your dispatch use EMD?

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If its not broken, don't fix it.

I work EMS in Tarrytown (and NYC but that's another story). The system for dispatching EMS and Fire in Tarrytown is working fine. I can see problems with 60 dispatching countywide. The local Police know certain areas and issues. For example, in Tarrytown there is a large apartment complex where you need to ask the caller for the address, building number, and apartment number. If any of that information is missing, then there will be a response delay. All the local cops know this but a 60 dispatcher that is not familiar may miss this, creating a delayed response. Also, in the heat of the moment, when a citizen calls in an emergency, they may not be able to articulate information accurately. Main street in what city? In Sleepy Hollow, there is a North Broadway and a New Broadway...a 60 dispatcher may write down "N. Broadway" and dispatch to the wrong location. Also, the local cops know the local regular callers, the trouble spots where hazards may exist. I also feel that when 60 dispatchs for calls on the NYS Thruway or Tappan Zee Bridge (Tarrytown jurisdiction) that the dispatch information is incomplete or not accurate. Several times, me and my partner have driven for miles because the dispatch information was not accurate. It makes a huge difference when you are dispatched southbound and the accident is northbound. Incorrect mile markers, told that the accident is on 287 when its on an exit ramp.

All due respect but you've cast some pretty big generalizations at 60-Control. To be fair, and objective, you may like your dispatch set-up but it doesn't mean it is better than another. All the errors that you reference have (can and probably will continue to) happen not necessarily because of dispatcher error but because of caller error. You even point that out.

Very often when receiving a call from someone reporting an incident on a highway system they don't tell us that it is on an exit ramp or give us the incorrect direction. It isn't until the first units arrive on scene that the real location and conditions are learned so your assertion that this is a failure of 60-Control is unfair.

Trouble spots, frequent callers, and other pertinent data can all be flagged by a CAD system. Relying on the personal knowledge of a particular dispatcher eliminates any hope of standardization or consistency. What happens when the FNG gets assigned to the desk for the night? Is he or she going to be as good as the crusty ol' veteran that knows the parents of the 911 caller and their NYSID numbers by heart as well as where the knife is kept in the living room? Come on!

Many PD dispatchers make excellent fire and EMS dispatchers but they are first and foremost police officers and/or dispatchers. When the proverbial fan is being hit, the police officer staffing the desk is inundated with other tasks and responsibilities. Their stress level increases and their performance may suffer for it (studies show that stress decreases performance in almost every field). Wouldn't you rather be speaking to a calm, professional communicator removed from the stress of the local situation who is 100% focused on you and your messages?

Centralized communications offer an array of benefits:

* EMD

* Consistency and standardization

* Good situational awareness (beyond the borders of a single jurisdiction - especially useful in mutual aid situations)

* Resource management would be improved by centralized dispatch centers for all emergency services

* Better accountability

* Cost savings - if we didn't have to staff nearly 100 different locations 24/7/365.

I could go on but you get the point. A competent dispatcher doesn't have to have personal knowledge of a building or neighborhood to be effective.

PS - I don't work at 60-Control nor are any of my comments directed at Tarrytown PD. They are general observations from someone that has worked on both sides of the radio.

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Yeah, i just don't get the whole call in with your own portable thing. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense because as the above poster stated, 90% of the time you're not hitting a repeater and thus wasting your time and when 60 Control or any dispatch for that matter, hears you or a fragment of your message and tries to acknowledge the guy/gal on the portable never hears it and the Dispatcher is calling 12 times for whatever unit it is.

I really think that just calling a hot line # and being like "XXX VAC EMT/Driver enroute to the station" is a lot more advantageous.

Also, i thought the new County radios were for mutual aid/MCIs and other disasters as oppose to day to day operations?

Generally, the "portable" system has worked well for a number of northern Westchester agencies. And since they are pretty much the only one on their respective frequencies, it interferes with no one else.

No single approch will work for every agency. Different areas and agencies have different needs, so sometimes, the approches have to be somewhat individualized.

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You should actually come and see what is done at 60 Control, before you comment. A good dispatcher is supplimented by his/her CAD.

1 question to you! Does your dispatch use EMD?

Have you seen what is done at Tarrytown PD dispatch before YOUR comment? The bottom line is that when E-911 goes to Tarrytown PD, they are familiar with the area, dispatch EMS and Fire right away and there haven't been any problems ... for years! So why change it now? I don't see the need to implement an extra step of transfering the call to 60.

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Question:

60 Control has taken over EMS dispatching for a number of VACs and VFDs (which is a good thing). I assume that 60 Control is paging them over whatever band their pagers operate on. Now, what is the deal with some agencies having individual members calling in on a radio? Is this the County radio or a VAC/VFD owned radio frequency or county channel?

Observation:

Wouldn't it be better if 60 Control had a "hotline" # (they may even have one, i have no idea) that the crew members would call to let Control know the status of the crew and once a crew is completed they can put that over the pagers. Putnam largely operated like this (at least when i was there) and i think it was a pretty decent way of doings things.

Overall it seems a far better way of doing things to me.

I work in a system where each VAC calls in via portable radio. Each agency has their own frequency and also everyone hits the repeater. It could be that I'm used to it or whatever, but I'm with 636. As the responding ALS unit I know what I have and what I do not. I know for the most part how the mutual aid is going whether or not someone is calling in. It allows me to make a decision of whether I have a bls full crew or if I have to ride it in by policy. I would also surmise that its easier for control to acutally keep answering the radio and doing re tones or other dispatching all from the radio then have to pick up a phone, talk, hang it up then go back to the radio. It actually works extremely well in our area.

NYMedic37...with all due respect your way off base and your points and opinions make no sense. How is it then that it works everywhere else...but won't work in Westchester? Why is it that since the inception of 911 it is was recommended by a President's Commission that 911 should have 1 central answering point? Your points is exactly why 911 in Westchester is what it is today....to simply put it...f***** up. There is nothing that any dispatcher anywhere can't figure out or handle regardless of where they are. The PD knows the area argument is weak and unjust. Give me a break. How many local PD's can give pre arrival instructions over the phone? As far as being given inaccurate information...lol. I get a lot more half assed info because of calls not being transferred or not getting complete infor before the caller being hung up on prior to 60 control notification. Excited callers...guess what, depending on the emergency more then one may call. And if an issue occurs they will call back. Lets not get into the delayed response argument when also discussing VAC's. If we were that worried about delayed responses the first argument would be staffing...not 911. Perhaps you can explain to me how PD can make corrections to ALI/ANI info that other would not be able too.

As far as your thruway/TZB issues. Guess who often takes those initial calls....SP. So there you have your PD dispatch theory. Guess those of us who get dispatched by Control have it all wrong and our responses are inaccurate, slow or haphazard. Oh wait a second I don't live in a vacuum, ours actually got more accurate, with prearrival instructions, uniformed and we actually get answered on the radio and for the most part our units get sent when they are suppose too.

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The purpose for EMTBravo is to express different opinions and therories for Police, Fire and EMS. I have read carefully all of the opinions expressed in this topic but do not necessarily agree with the majority here. I can not speak for other jurisdictions. All I can say is that the dispatch by Tarrytown PD for Fire and EMS has been effective for many years and I do not see a need for an additional step in the dispatch process.

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Sorry to disturb you from doing your............JOB!

Your right is is my JOB. I want my job to be EASIER.

Call comes in I then have to DISPATCH THE MEDIC AND AMBULANCE, A POLICE OFFICER then the VAC has to CALL IN for some reason all while the phones COULD BE RINGING off the HOOK. And this is when we are ALONE on a middie. At least 60 has at least 3 people working that could easily handle this call.

It is what it is. It's not going to change. BUT ONE CAN WISH IN THIS CHRISTMAS SEASON.

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Your right is is my JOB. I want my job to be EASIER.

Call comes in I then have to DISPATCH THE MEDIC AND AMBULANCE, A POLICE OFFICER then the VAC has to CALL IN for some reason all while the phones COULD BE RINGING off the HOOK. And this is when we are ALONE on a middie. At least 60 has at least 3 people working that could easily handle this call.

It is what it is. It's not going to change. BUT ONE CAN WISH IN THIS CHRISTMAS SEASON.

Can't disagree with you there brother!

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Well... I WAS going to keep my mouth shut on this one BUT....

(Oh yeah, and let me start off by saying I RESPECT everyone's opinions, and in no way am I trying to make a shot at anyone or any agency....)

Being a former 60 control dispatcher, and working dispatch for other agencies... the one thing I can vouch for that I KNOW 60 control does is AREA FAMILLIARAZATION TRAINING!!!! I got hired there in June of 2004. I wasn't even allowed to touch a radio for at least 4 months. We spent so much time training on different departments and areas that we would have that idea of potentially problematic areas before the problems occured. (YES PRO-ACTIVE, not RE-ACTIVE training!) I can tell you for a fact that we spent a whole day riding in New Rochelle learning that system, a whole day in Eastchester learning that system. Another day focusing on the Soundshore area (Larchmont, Mamamroneck, Port Chester, Rye, Harrison, etc.) another day from N. White Plains up through Pleasantville, Mt Kisco, Chappaqua and Bedford areas, YET ANOTHER DAY doing Pound Ridge, North Salem, Somers areas, and oh yeah, a FULL DAY doing Peekskill, Mohegan, Yorktown, "BuPlanckTrose" (Tri-Village/Town of Cortlandt) and so on and so fourth...

The representatives from the different agencies took us out, showed us common areas where calls are recieved, informed us of areas that can be problematic... ie: E Main St/Rt 6 in Mohegan's district. Half of E. Main St IS Rt 6, half of it is its own road...

Whenever we took on a new agency, MONTHS were spent working with CAD division, phone company 911 reps, and the Department to make sure all info was accurate and the transition would go smoothly. In addition, all the dispatchers were trained on P&P's for the new agency.

All the dispatchers are also trained and cerified in Emergency Medical Dispatch... As stated earlier, how many other agencies in this county offer that?

As much as I don't care for DES administration (for personal reasons), the Chief, and especially the Captain of the communications divison do their absolute best to make sure everyone is well trained and familliar with the county and operations of different agencies.

There will ALWAYS be issues with dispatching... but I'll re-iterate 642's post by saying what I've told everyone else who has ever questioned the ability of ANY dispatcher (NOT JUST 60-Control's)

THE INFO THAT WE PUT OUT ON DISPATCHES IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE INFO WE GET!!!

Just my $0.02

Edited by x648eng119

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Have you seen what is done at Tarrytown PD dispatch before YOUR comment? The bottom line is that when E-911 goes to Tarrytown PD, they are familiar with the area, dispatch EMS and Fire right away and there haven't been any problems ... for years! So why change it now? I don't see the need to implement an extra step of transfering the call to 60.

I have not made any negative comments toward your agency. I can not say the same for you. I asked one question only. Please answer it and we'll go on from there.

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Ok, well this turned into something i surely never intended. Anyhow, to try and stear this thing a bit more on target:

- when an agency approaches county control and shows interest in wanting to be dispatched by them what exactly goes on? Does 60 simply adopt the system that they are using or is a system/protocol developed with some of the old and some of the new (60 control providing the new)?

- What's the status with the new radio system? I remember reading here that there were capacity issues before things even got off the ground completely. Has that made it more difficult to add EMS agencies into the centralized dispatching mix? Hypothetically could the county and the radio system handle dispatching every EMS agency right now?

The only reason i bothered to ask these questions (and am regretting ever bothering starting this thread) was because i almost never talk with 60 control [only when i go m/a]. I appreciate the clarifications from everyone that offered them.

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Your right is is my JOB. I want my job to be EASIER.

Call comes in I then have to DISPATCH THE MEDIC AND AMBULANCE, A POLICE OFFICER then the VAC has to CALL IN for some reason all while the phones COULD BE RINGING off the HOOK. And this is when we are ALONE on a middie. At least 60 has at least 3 people working that could easily handle this call.

It is what it is. It's not going to change. BUT ONE CAN WISH IN THIS CHRISTMAS SEASON.

The answer is simple; you do the possible, the impossible is just going to have to wait.

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Your right is is my JOB. I want my job to be EASIER.

Call comes in I then have to DISPATCH THE MEDIC AND AMBULANCE, A POLICE OFFICER then the VAC has to CALL IN for some reason all while the phones COULD BE RINGING off the HOOK. And this is when we are ALONE on a middie. At least 60 has at least 3 people working that could easily handle this call.

It is what it is. It's not going to change. BUT ONE CAN WISH IN THIS CHRISTMAS SEASON.

60 Control's minimum staffing is 4 on duty. More often then not we run with 5 during the day. Once we reach full staffing (another Christmas wish) there is 4 groups of 5 and 1 group of 6, and during the week there is 6 people in the room working.

As far as the phone ringing issue - take it off the hook. And put an end to 911 advertising... I'll help.

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