Scanners in Vehicles

[x648eng119 2]

I'm posing a two part question here regarding scanners in motor vehicles in the State of New York. Since my local PD agency is breaking stones about us responders having scanners in our vehicles, I want to get some legal facts. I've looked up the NYS V&T Law on the subject, and this is what I found.

§ 397. Equipping motor vehicles with radio receiving sets capable of receiving signals on the frequencies allocated for police use. A

person, not a police officer or peace officer, acting pursuant to his special duties, who equips a motor vehicle with a radio receiving set

capable of receiving signals on the frequencies allocated for police use or knowingly uses a motor vehicle so equipped or who in any way

knowingly interferes with the transmission of radio messages by the police without having first secured a permit so to do from the person

authorized to issue such a permit by the local governing body or board of the city, town or village in which such person resides, or where such

person resides outside of a city or village in a county having a county police department by the board of supervisors of such county, is guilty

of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars, or imprisonment not exceeding six months, or both. Nothing in

this section contained shall be construed to apply to any person who holds a valid amateur radio operator's license issued by the federal

communications commission and who operates a duly licensed portable mobile transmitter and in connection therewith a receiver or receiving

set on frequencies exclusively allocated by the federal communications commission to duly licensed radio amateurs.

Now, question #1, for the Law Enforcement types; I want to make sure I am interpreting this right. Other than a Police Officer, Peace Officer, or Amateur Radio Operator (licensed by the FCC), it is 100% illegal to have a scanner (or device capable of receiving police frequencies) in a vehicle under any circumstance. The part about the amateur radio operator confuses me a bit. What I'm getting from this is it has to be connected to a transmitter (i.e, mobile radio) on frequencies designated for amateur radio use only?

Question #2, how would one go about obtaining an amateur radio operator permit?

Thanks for the help everyone.. Just trying to figure out a way to legally keep a scanner in my car!

[CFD320 35]

Just go find a peace officer class, you are a career guy....

[x648eng119 2]

Can someone not involved with law enforcement or fire police take a peace officer class? I used to have it when I was an Aux. P.O. but I wouldn't know how to go about taking the class otherwise.

[INIT915 1,119]

I'm posing a two part question here regarding scanners in motor vehicles in the State of New York. Since my local PD agency is breaking stones about us responders having scanners in our vehicles, I want to get some legal facts. I've looked up the NYS V&T Law on the subject, and this is what I found.

Now, question #1, for the Law Enforcement types; I want to make sure I am interpreting this right. Other than a Police Officer, Peace Officer, or Amateur Radio Operator (licensed by the FCC), it is 100% illegal to have a scanner (or device capable of receiving police frequencies) in a vehicle under any circumstance. The part about the amateur radio operator confuses me a bit. What I'm getting from this is it has to be connected to a transmitter (i.e, mobile radio) on frequencies designated for amateur radio use only?

Question #2, how would one go about obtaining an amateur radio operator permit?

Thanks for the help everyone.. Just trying to figure out a way to legally keep a scanner in my car!

Getting your Peace Officer certification would do you no good, because you could only have the scanner when "acting pursuant to those special duties." In other words, you would have to be actively engaged in your Peace Officer role to be in possession of your scanner. You wouldn't be able possess the scanner at times where you weren't acting as a Peace Officer, i.e. just generally tooling around town.

The Amateur Radio Operator (a.k.a. Ham Radio Operator) is restricted to the specially set aside frequencies which are different than those you are seeking to monitor.

See http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/allocate.html for clarification.

[abaduck 123]

I was aware of this law. And I believe that under this law, any scanner - even a portable - which is switched-on in a car is deemed to be 'installed' in the car.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on radio law, or indeed law of any kind, but the following two thoughts occur to me:

1. Would not such a state law be superseded by any conflicting federal law?

2. Fire departments are duly licensed by the FCC to operate radio equipment. Certainly the base stations, and ?probably? also for the use of fireground portables.

In my department, our fireground portables are programmed with various local police frequencies (and adjacent FD frequencies), as well as our own fireground frequencies. And they have a switch to put them into scan mode. When responding to a call, I usually have my portable switched on in the car, and in scan mode, in order to get as much information as possible as part of my sizeup. If PD are first on scene and reporting a working fire, I want to know! Is this legal? I presume it is, it certainly should be. I presume it's covered by our FD license from the FCC.

So there *may* be your answer; an FD-issued portable, in scan mode. Other than that there's no exemption that I know of. There have been several attempts to amend the state law to permit volunteer firefighters to use actual scanners in their cars, I believe, but AFAIK they all died.

Getting a basic FCC ham radio licence is pretty trivial, I believe - google it.

Mike

[INIT915 1,119]

Actually, in my experience, these PD and EMS portables are hardly ever in strict compliance with the respective agency's FCC license. Again, in my personal experience, this is not a problem, because the local PD's do not mind being able to comminicate quickly and directly with local EMS and FD folks. Doesn't make it technically legal, more of a look the other way type deal. Most agencies pay little to no mind to the FCC license. I personally know of agencies that are "licensed" for (1) base station and (1) portable. They, in reality have literally dozens and dozens of portables floating around. Again, more of a no harm/no foul type situation.

I was aware of this law. And I believe that under this law, any scanner - even a portable - which is switched-on in a car is deemed to be 'installed' in the car.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on radio law, or indeed law of any kind, but the following two thoughts occur to me:

1. Would not such a state law be superseded by any conflicting federal law?

2. Fire departments are duly licensed by the FCC to operate radio equipment. Certainly the base stations, and ?probably? also for the use of fireground portables.

In my department, our fireground portables are programmed with various local police frequencies (and adjacent FD frequencies), as well as our own fireground frequencies. And they have a switch to put them into scan mode. When responding to a call, I usually have my portable switched on in the car, and in scan mode, in order to get as much information as possible as part of my sizeup. If PD are first on scene and reporting a working fire, I want to know! Is this legal? I presume it is, it certainly should be. I presume it's covered by our FD license from the FCC.

So there *may* be your answer; an FD-issued portable, in scan mode. Other than that there's no exemption that I know of. There have been several attempts to amend the state law to permit volunteer firefighters to use actual scanners in their cars, I believe, but AFAIK they all died.

Getting a basic FCC ham radio licence is pretty trivial, I believe - google it.

Mike

[Medic442 15]

X648eng119,

1st for the record I am a ham and hold a separt FCC Radio Telephone Restricted Operators. My Call is KC2CRV. It is actually easy to get a ham lic at the amtur level. Alot of clubs like the QSY Soc or the Mt Beacon as well Pearl have meetings and teach. You should be able to pu a Gorden West book to help study for the multiple guess test. They have held test at the tops center in Carmel.

2nd As for the radio or transceiver does not have to be direct connected to a scanner. Most hams use it to make sure the equip is working right or not to miss other conversations

I operate a quad band (4 differ bands) plus a scanner. The radio is registered for both EMS & Ham & that in its self was hard to get approved.

The norm for a ham is to have only the freqs that you a registered to operate. Programmed. The only way you would get permission is if you where a member of React or a skywarn crew.

In short. You run a scanner in your car with PD freqs (You in trouble). If for FD or EMS talk with your chief 1st. You might be able to get a blockable scanner that will only scan the freqs you actually need.

If I can help with anything let me know. 73

[Medic137 6]

With very few exceptions, having a scanner or other two way radio in your car is against the law. That being said, I have never heard of anyone being charged with this offense if they weren't doing something illegal or stupid at the time. Use common sense. Don't flaunt it in front of the police. Don't use what you hear for personal gain or to compromise someone's privacy. Don't buff calls that you have no business being at. I've had a scanner and a couple of portable radios in my personal vehicles for many years and no one has ever said a word to me about it.

Edited December 25, 2008 by Medic137

[Guest WCDES636]

Or you can talk to your state reps to adjust the law to include members of EMS and FD.

[PEMO3 523]

An interesting part of the law states to "secure a permit" but to my knowledge no such permit exists. Is anyone aware of this "permit" and where you could secure one? It seems that the law states that one can be provided where the user resides in a county with a county police department. It would seem that Westchester County PD could either issue the permit or a blanket permit to departments similar to the blue and green light cards that agencies hand out. On the other hand, if you do secure a "Westchester County or a town" permit and leave that juristiction does that then make the scanner illegal since you are now in an area not covered by your permit? This law looks like a pandora's box the way it is written.

[RocklandFires 44]

Getting your Amateur Radio license is not that hard. You just need to study a pool of questions. Visit this website for sample tests: http://aa9pw.com/radio/

Good Luck !

de N2BTD

[Guest]

Getting the Technician Level license for ham radio is fairly simple. I did it a few years ago after just reading through the Tech level prep book once from ARRL. If you go to the ARRL website, all the information for beginning is there. However, that doesn't make it legal to listen to PD freqs, only to have a transceiver that could receive PD freqs, but isn't programmed to listen to them. If the cop starts writing you a ticket, and he can hear his voice coming out your car window, you probably have problems...

[JM15 386]

I've heard of people getting letters from the police chief as a way of securing the "special permit" Basically be smart, I've had one for a while and never had a problem.

[STAT213 332]

Or, you can move to a state not governed by lunatics!

[INIT915 1,119]

Or, you can move to a state not governed by lunatics!

Well, the law itself has merit. There are those 'winners' out there who we do not need monitoring police activity (or Fire/EMS) for that matter. The fault lies perhaps in not having listed exceptions.

[helicopper 1,050]

I was aware of this law. And I believe that under this law, any scanner - even a portable - which is switched-on in a car is deemed to be 'installed' in the car.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on radio law, or indeed law of any kind, but the following two thoughts occur to me:

1. Would not such a state law be superseded by any conflicting federal law?

2. Fire departments are duly licensed by the FCC to operate radio equipment. Certainly the base stations, and ?probably? also for the use of fireground portables.

In my department, our fireground portables are programmed with various local police frequencies (and adjacent FD frequencies), as well as our own fireground frequencies. And they have a switch to put them into scan mode. When responding to a call, I usually have my portable switched on in the car, and in scan mode, in order to get as much information as possible as part of my sizeup. If PD are first on scene and reporting a working fire, I want to know! Is this legal? I presume it is, it certainly should be. I presume it's covered by our FD license from the FCC.

So there *may* be your answer; an FD-issued portable, in scan mode. Other than that there's no exemption that I know of. There have been several attempts to amend the state law to permit volunteer firefighters to use actual scanners in their cars, I believe, but AFAIK they all died.

Getting a basic FCC ham radio licence is pretty trivial, I believe - google it.

Mike

Unless your FD has licenses for the PD and/or EMS frequencies or has a letter from the license holder (i.e. Police Chief or EMS authority) authorizing your use of their frequencies all those radios are illegal. Your FD license may not even authorize all the "stuff" you have; it's not hard to check either, go to fcc.gov and search licenses to see what your legally allowed to have.

Now all this means nothing unless someone complains or your do something stupid and get caught. If someone complains to the FCC, you can find yourself in administrative trouble and have to remove all the unauthorized equipment, frequencies, etc. I know of one PD that had to reduce their transmit power because of a conflict with another PD in another state and both hold licenses so the FCC wields a pretty heavy hammer. And they won't care that you're the local FD, EMS, etc. To them you're just another license holder - or not a license holder with unauthorized frequencies in their radios.

As for the scanners, if they receive police frequencies and are in a vehicle they are illegal. There're very few ways around it. The amateur radio license doesn't get you permission to scan PD frequencies either; it just authorizes the use of radios that are capable of being programmed.

As others have said, it all boils down to common sense. If you have a scanner in your car and start showing up at jobs for which your agency has not been dispatched you can expect to run into trouble. If you have a scanner and hear a job and go to your firehouse to wait for the call, odds are you'll be fine.

If you use the scanner to buff jobs in other communities for the sake of buffing, you may have to answer some questions and find yourself in hot water. Be smart about it.

If you have radios that are programmed for PD frequencies, it may be wise to ask the powers that be if they're authorized so you don't get in trouble for their negligence or laziness!

[gamewell45 258]

Best thing to do is to pick up an amature radio operators license (i'd suggest initially a technicans grade). There are various amature radio clubs in the Hudson Valley area which can assist you in getting your license, plus some can even administer the test to you. Once you get your license its good for ten (10) years before you have to renew it. The test for technicans grade is composed primarily of questions based on rules and regulations and frequencies your allowed to operate on. There might be a few technical questions, but you can easily learn them. Once you get your license and if you feel the need you can always upgrade to General or Extra Class, thus giving you further priveleges on the amature band. Oh and btw, code is no longer required for Technicans grade.

[Guest]

Best thing to do is to pick up an amature radio operators license (i'd suggest initially a technicans grade). There are various amature radio clubs in the Hudson Valley area which can assist you in getting your license, plus some can even administer the test to you. Once you get your license its good for ten (10) years before you have to renew it. The test for technicans grade is composed primarily of questions based on rules and regulations and frequencies your allowed to operate on. There might be a few technical questions, but you can easily learn them. Once you get your license and if you feel the need you can always upgrade to General or Extra Class, thus giving you further priveleges on the amature band. Oh and btw, code is no longer required for Technicans grade.

Code isn't required for anything anymore.

[Guest]

Or you can talk to your state reps to adjust the law to include members of EMS and FD.

That's one way of thinking, but I think I agree more with this school of thought...

With very few exceptions, having a scanner or other two way radio in your car is against the law. That being said, I have never heard of anyone being charged with this offense if they weren't doing something illegal or stupid at the time. Use common sense. Don't flaunt it in front of the police. Don't use what you hear for personal gain or to compromise someone's privacy. Don't buff calls that you have no business being at. I've had a scanner and a couple of portable radios in my personal vehicles for many years and no one has ever said a word to me about it.

We don't need more and more laws governing how people should behave. Adjusting the law to include EMS and FD personnel won't help keep scanners out of the cars of the few idiots that would use them improperly, as I'm sure most of those people have FD or EMS affiliations to begin with.

[notch138 7]

If you think about the law this would include your mintors and other fire notification devices. However the reason the law states ", who equips a motor vehicle with a radio receiving set capable of receiving signals on the frequencies allocated for police use or knowingly uses a motor vehicle so equipped or who in any way is done that way for a reason. If you have ever seen a Frequency Allocation Chart you will see that ALL EMERGENCY SERVICES are assigned the same block of frequencies for use along with may other services. (They are a little hard to read.) This law prevents ANYONE from monitoring ANY FREQUENCIES alloted for that use, HOWEVER.....A person, not a police officer or peace officer, acting pursuant to his special duties, defines who can and Firefighters, EMT's Medics along with other personnel who are ALLOWED to carry a notification device (ie. Mintor Pagers.) If you read the FCC license you will see that each dept does have an alloted about of radio's they are allowed and licensed to have. Mintors are not part of that due do the ever changed number of member's and that they are only a one way device. The reason the state does not want people having scanners is for not only our safety but the safety of the general public. If anyone has seen the movie "The Fast and the Furious" I believe it is part 2 were you see Ja Rule holding a scanner listing for the police. That should fill you needs.

PS I am not a lawyer just someone who know a little bit about this stuff THIS IS NOT TO BE USED FOR ANYTHING OTHER THEN A POST ON THIS SITE. OH AND MERRY CHRISTMAS

[RWC130 594]

This topic was beat to death a while ago!

Yes, unless you are a Police Officer, Peace Officer, or Licensed Ham Radio Operator

having a Scanner or Two Way Radio that is capable of monitoring Police Frequencies is ILLEGAL.

Now, as I said before if you are a Firefighter/EMT show some respect to a Police

Officer who might pull you over and TURN IT OFF!

Is the PD is busting Horns is it for a reason?

A lot of Police Officer's look the other way on Scanners if you are a Firefighter or EMT

as sometimes they are beneficial for various reasons.

Did the Police Officer bust chops about the 10 Blue Lights and Rear Red/White Strobes

and then notice the Scanner? lol