60 Control Ladder designations

[HFD23 37]

Does any one else take issue with trucks with tower ladder platfroms being called ladders, rather then tower ladder?, It is a Tower Ladder why not be given a number and listed as a tower ladder? i think this could be a problem when a department is specially looking for a straight stick and there could be some confussion...

[Guest DG795]

There should be just one ladder designation for TL's and ladders...having ladder 1 and tower ladder 1 is repetitive and confusing....of course we are way past fixing that, the cost and effort going into such an endevour is expensive and would be met by extreme oppostion.

So in order to deal with what we have, you should at least be consistant. Its bad enough to separate the designations, but then to have TL's in the ladder category is even worse. If you want to keep your number, keep the same type of rig. If you switch from TL to stick or visa versa, get a new number.

To those that feel the division in TL vs. Ladder designations avoids confusion, let me clarify what I mean. You could still call TL's Tower Ladders, and sticks ladders, just dont have duplicate numbering. But once again, i am off the path of feasability and reality...we have it the way it is, and the bottom line is it should at least be consistent.

[TRUCK6018 50]

At least now the county is no longer issuing "duplicate" numbers. Example: If Department "A" has ladder 123, the county will not issue tower 123 to department "B".

I personally feel the county should have just one ladder designation and be done with it. If you look at most other numbering systems, it doesn't matter if it has a bucket, stick or no aerial device at all (old Mt. Kisco Ladder 43). A ladder company is just that, no matter what's on top of it. The area chief's, coordinators, etc should know enough what's what. If were going to individualy catogorize them why not go as far as the length of the aerial device?

As far as the county changing numbers, they did it to us. Our ladder is designated as ladder 18, they changed it (with out our knowledge) to tower ladder 18. If you go back further in history the county did away with telesquirts, patrols, fire boats, and changed everyones former ambulance designations to the current A, B, and M units.

[Hooks057 0]

I think the issue with Fairview is not so much the county as it is Fairview. Tower Ladder 1 is assigned to Thornwood and I don't think that Fairview was willing to change.

(now isn't that the story with most Westchester Depts.)

How about Montrose who insist on calling their Tower Ladder "Ladder Tower 8 or LT-8" on the radio

I remember when "LT" was abbr. for Light Truck ...

Can't we all just play by the same rules????

Sometimes change is good! Get onboard.

[x635 4,066]

If I had L-1 desig, I wouldn't want to give it up either, lol.

In my opinion, in this county, and other places as well, the apparatus designator should indicate what type of tasks the apparatus is capable of performing, not the type of apparatus it is.

Example:

Ladder-SINGLE DESIGNATOR-Any vehicle able to perform truck company operations.

Doesnt matter if its a ladder,tower ladder, snorkel, etc. Any vehicle regardless of stick type should be able to perform truck company operations, and designated as such. Anybody working as an IC should know what type of appartus it is and be able to make a decision for a special call if needed.

Engine- Any vehicle capable of performing engine ops.

Quints/Telesquirts- should be designated as the primary function of the rig.

I also have trouble with the "Utility" designation because it is too broad.

Should be broken down into Utility, Brush, Cascade,Foam, Rehab, etc.

I agree with Hooks. We should all be on the same level, because that promotes better (here's my favorite word again) INTEROPERABILTY. Standards promote safety, effeciency, and ease of communications.

[Oswegowind 17]

A ladder is a ladder is a ladder...I could care less if it is a straight, tower, quint, snorkel, or whatever...just call it truck then and get rid of the 2 designations...and what is so big about being ladder 1...it doesn't mean there any good and it doesn't mean that they were the first...I would rather be truck 69!!!!!

[RU 911 0]

Very tactfully said Oswegowind. Just don't be upset when they start calling you ambulance driver or in your case ambulance passenger.

[Guest Lieutenant6474]

The entire Westchester County apparatus designation is usless and ineffective. There is no rhyme or reason to it. Take Mt. Kisco for example. Instead of having E-103,104,105,106 L-43, TL-14, R-15 etc.... They should be assigned a company number for the county.... Lets use for example 22. When apparatus is listed instead of being all over the board, it would look like this. E22-1, 22-2, 22-3, 22-4, TL-22, L-22, R-22, Chief 22, Asst 22, Deptuy 22 etc etc etc. There is a lot less info for officers to keep in their heads. All a local chief calling multiple departments for mutual aid needs to know is that TL-22 is responding and company 22 is Mt. Kisco instead of trying to remember whether or not Bedford Hills or Mt. Kisco's tower is the one on way based on the kooky numbering system we have now.

[msm232 69]

Westchester County Firefighting ...200 Hundred years of Tradition.....unimpeded by progress.

Some of the issues....

-Multiple PSAPS.

-Confusing apparatus designations

-No Standardized training between departments

-Strategy and Tactics take back seat to politics and pay back.

-Carreer and volunteer fire services

-Lack of countywide leadership to deal with above issues.

Stay safe and keep you head down.

[Guest Lieutenant6474]

This post should probably move off the apparatus section BUT

MSM232... couldn't have said it better... Here are a few solutions that I think could help.

Lose the politics and ego. We're here to serve end of story regardless if there is a paycheck every other week. The Volunteer/Career department combinations in Baltimore County, PG County, Montgomery County etc around Baltimore and DC work great. In fact the second busiest engine in the WORLD is an ALL VOLUNTEER rig out of PG county (Kendland FD E33-1)

Westchester has money... Lets find someone from a combined volunteer/career county out there that is worth his salary and get them to help us.

Lets lose the career ego at the training center. I don't think that it's any surprise that the guys on the job are trying to squeeze out the volunteers. Then lets come up with a common training strategy to keep all our guys safe and the vollies and paid guys on the same page.

Let lose the lazy complacent attitude that the volunteers have about training and professionalism. If I hear one more time "but we're just volunteers" I'm gonna puke.

Lets get dispatch and operations off the same freq. There should be a primary dispatch for fire calls in the county. When each apparatus signs on the air they should be assigned a channel for that call. EMS should have a seperate dispatch for all calls not involving fire apparatus (ie fire, extrication etc calls stay on fire dispatch)

Three pages MAXIMUM per call. If 5 minutes pass with no response, the department has failed on the call and the next due should be alerted.

Departments should be assigned numbers and their apparatus should correspond with those numbers

Departments should be required to create box areas that have automatic mutual aid assignments labeled 2nd, 3rd, 4th alarm etc. I can't stand that chief's egos continue to spew the comment "We cant have automatic alarm assignments how do we know what we need... I have to make that decision when I get there"... BS no effective fire service has an officer saying.... "Uh gimme an engine from Briarcliff and Tarrytown, Ladder from Pleasantville, Rescue from Elmsford".... It should already be on the street when he says "give me my second alarm assignment" while enroute to the scene OR even better... Part of the initial dispatch for alarms where the caller confirms fire is working.

[HFD23 37]

i couldn;t agree more that things would be alot better the way kentland and other companies dispatch and would love to see it happen up here, the question is will it ever happen? and whats it goin to take to impliment?