Trooper & Medic Fight-Caught On Video

[Guest]

FROM: The Secret List

Hey...

In an example of warm and heartfelt "customer service" and "interagency-co-operability" ...a scuffle between some hot-headed cops and a paramedic in Oklahoma was caught on tape. OK Highway Patrol troopers and an EMS paramedic came to blows while a patient waited to be taken to the hospital. The encounter was caught on a cell phone by the son of the patient in the ambulance. In the video, you will see OHP troopers pushing the paramedic and grabbing his neck. Officials say OHP troopers became very upset after the paramedic ambulance failed to yield the right of way while the troopers were rushing to a separate run. Apparently the trooper had never experienced anyone NOT pulling over when using his lights and siren.

The troopers claim the paramedic (who they pulled over) assaulted one of them before the camera started rolling. The video was shot by the patient's son...who continually asked the troopers to stop, so his mom could be taken to the hospital. "We're like telling this dude. Man, my mom is in the back. My step-dad was like man my wife is in the back, can we do this at the hospital?" said Kenyada Davis.

The incident started when the ambulance failed to yield to state troopers en route to a call. Mr. Davis said the EMS driver was trying to avoid hitting a car that slowed down and wasn't aware that troopers were nearby until it was too late. After the troopers finished their official business, they pulled the ambulance over-with the patient inside. A struggle ensued and. according to Oklahoma Highway Patrol, the paramedics assaulted the trooper just before the fight broke out. The District Attorney's office is reviewing footage and could file criminal charges against the paramedic by the end of the week...and we'll followup.

HERE is the video:

http://www.digtriad.com/news/watercooler/a...4&catid=176

HERE is the video in a different format:

http://www.newson6.com/global/video/flash/...mp;rnd=61351908

SUGGESTION: NEXT TIME, we suggest they work out their problem in THIS manner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ikQeKJPYM

The full YouTube video:

[Guest TFD125]

I'm not going to get into the actual argument much because who knows what the actual truth is. This issue could be spun one of many different ways and I'm sure we'll see most of them on this thread soon. By the looks of the video the troopers are in the wrong but for all we know the medic swerved at the trooper trying to run him off the road while drinking a beer. Do I think the trooper should have arrested the medic with a patient in the back, IMO absolutely not (depending on the circumstances obviously).

However one thing we should ALL learn by this is that EVERYONE has a still camera, video camera, audio recorder in there pocket built into their cell phones. You should always conduct yourself as a professional on scene or off because you may be the next one on the news. It does not matter who was wrong in this video because the PD sure does look mighty foolish whether or not they were justified in their actions.

Edited May 27, 2009 by TFD125

[Goose 188]

Appears that PD dropped the ball on this one. That's probably one of the most absurd things i've ever seen - even if the ambulance didn't yield the right of way, to pull it over and disrupt patient care in that manner....seems asinine. This was nothing that couldn't have been dealt with in a calm an cool manner at the hospital and frankly, i'm not even sure there was anything that needed to be dealt with.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Goose

[NJMedic 96]

I wonder what the circumstances where that the troopers had to assist the county?

[Guest stephentyler20]

Totally pathetic, for all parties. I don't care what the medics did, no traffic violation is sufficient to pull them over with a patient in the back. Professionalism implies that we give each other the benefit of the doubt in these situations, and if you really have to bring that into question, wait until the right time and place to address it, and with the right people present. Can them all, I say.

[moggie6 54]

That is crazy....wow

[rickperry99 8]

Those cops were way out of line. How dare they pull over a bus with a Pt in the back! What if the Pt's condition was serious? If the DA has half a brain he/she will not file any charges and make sure the cops are disciplined for their outrageous actions.

[NYMedic37 22]

From the video...It didn't look like the Medic did anything wrong. The Troopers should be disaplined and retrained. They should have found out why the driver was unable to yield to the Troop car. I would also like to know how long the delay was because the ambulance was unable to yield immediately....2 or 3 seconds???

[helicopper 1,050]

The video shows a trooper informing someone that he is under arrest and he physically resists. Like it or not, for any reason, that is wrong. According to the audio, there was an "assault" that was not caught on video. If the "paramedic" was being arrested for assault, it may not have been inappropriate to delay the arrest - assault, after, all is a crime.

If the whole thing stemmed from a traffic incident, it could have been resolved later at the hospital but it doesn't condone anyone physically resisting arrest. If there was an assault of some kind, you're all rushing to judgment condemning the cops.

I really wish all of you leaping to judgment would take a moment to consider that you're seeing 30 seconds of video about an incident that apparently occurred off-video. Before you rush to your conclusion, consider that you don't have all the facts or information.

Wow, the incident is as pathetic as the responses here...

[x635 4,066]

Hopefully, the dash cam and audio was working the whole time-if they were equipped. That will be the unbiased truth to the whole incident.

[wolf12601 0]

Police Officers have a hard time de-escalating their emotions in this country. They tend to be too amped for minor situations. They tend to be amped up all of the time. I remember a MVA where the victim crashed his car because of a seizure. The PD on the scene stated " If you do not take this F@%#$ test I'll arrest you!" I was kinda shocked at the cop's approach. The victim was already strapped to the stretcher where was he going? What was the offense that required that kind of response? Portable breath analyzers are not even admissible in court. Your response should fit the situation. Maybe it is the "above the law" attitudes that allot of them have.

The Paramedic should have not pushed the cop either. Just write the violation and file the complaint against the cop later. Hopefully the patient does not die in the back while all of this bs goes on. From what I saw of the video, the cop escalated the event by yelling at the driver like he was a two year old. Seems like that group is out of control.

Ed

[paratrooper75 41]

Just another hot headed cop for you. I can't tell you the number of times cars dodn't yield to emergency vehicles. It happens. Cops get too high tempered too quick sometimes. They sometimes escalate the situation with karate instead of diffusing it with intelligent conversation and rational actions. This Medic may of been in the wrong but you wait until the patient is out of the ambulance and the call is over to voice your concern over him not yielding. I would've been pissed too if a cop pulled me over and delayed my patient from getting to the hospital. Its just stupid. My 2 cents. Thats it. Not coming back to this this one.

Edited May 27, 2009 by paratrooper75

[wolf12601 0]

LOL....Karate

Stigma of the police?

Yeah that choke hold looked effective.. lol. He probably learned that at Tiger Shulmans! LOL!

Ed

[x635 4,066]

EMT In Confrontation With Trooper Speaks Out

posted 05/27/09 2:58 pm

Read Maurice White's report of Sunday's incident.

Read the report of Sunday's incident from Paul Franks.

Watch video of the confrontation

Okmulgee -An Emergency Medical Technician who was involved in a scuffle with an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper is speaking out about the incident.

Maurice White, Jr. is a critical care paramedic with the Creek Nation EMS. He was nearly arrested after the confrontation, which was captured by the cell phone of Kenyada Davis.

More info, including the statements from both of the EMS crew members: http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0509/626636.html

The medic involved's sworn statement: http://static.ktul.com/documents/emtstatement_0509.pdf

[Jybehofd 85]

I don't know if it me or I am hearing things.. but the patient seems to be complaining about something when the medic trys to get into the back of the amb and the cop keeps pushing his finger into the medic's chest.. but it did look like the medic was going to get into the back for some reason.. and then someone else does go in.. well were all weren't there but I have seen some weird things lately and it seems to be increasing and spreading eastward too. I wonder how this have would have played out if it was something a little more serious like a cardiac arrest.. god forbid a pediatric cardiac arrest i don't think the cop would have been able to get me to stop unless they pitted the ambulance or cut me off

Edited May 27, 2009 by Jybehofd

[Goose 188]

The video shows a trooper informing someone that he is under arrest and he physically resists. Like it or not, for any reason, that is wrong. According to the audio, there was an "assault" that was not caught on video. If the "paramedic" was being arrested for assault, it may not have been inappropriate to delay the arrest - assault, after, all is a crime.

If the whole thing stemmed from a traffic incident, it could have been resolved later at the hospital but it doesn't condone anyone physically resisting arrest. If there was an assault of some kind, you're all rushing to judgment condemning the cops.

I really wish all of you leaping to judgment would take a moment to consider that you're seeing 30 seconds of video about an incident that apparently occurred off-video. Before you rush to your conclusion, consider that you don't have all the facts or information.

Wow, the incident is as pathetic as the responses here...

We are all leaping to judgement because some of us have disagreed with the way the cops handled this? Give me a break.

No one claimed the paramedic was a saint or was free from any blame and there are obviously details we are not privy to. But, unless it's Oklahoma protocol to pull over and accost every driver who doesn't sufficiently yield to an emergency vehicle, i am confident in my opinion that this was not handled properly by the police.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Goose

[abaduck 123]

The video shows a trooper informing someone that he is under arrest and he physically resists. Like it or not, for any reason, that is wrong.

The video shows a trooper interfering with patient care/transport. Like it or not, for any reason (short of perhaps a warrant for arrest for murder being out for the EMT!) that is wrong. What's the priority at any incident scene - LE, EMS, or fire? Life! Have you read the sworn statement? The EMT swears the trooper assaulted *him*, and he reminded the trooper that assaulting an EMT in the course of their duties was a felony. And apparently he has independent witnesses. Those troopers should, and hopefully will, go to jail. The EMT was quite proper to resist.

According to the audio, there was an "assault" that was not caught on video. If the "paramedic" was being arrested for assault, it may not have been inappropriate to delay the arrest - assault, after, all is a crime.

Until we see some statements from the troopers about that, I have to wonder about the nature and extent of the alleged 'assault'. I have been threatened with arrest precisely once in my life, by an Amtrak rent-a-cop. I accidently brushed my sleeve very gently against him in a crowd; he informed me in no uncertain terms that ANY physical contact with an LEO, no matter how gentle and absent of any malice was a crime of assault, and he could take me to jail.

If the whole thing stemmed from a traffic incident, it could have been resolved later at the hospital but it doesn't condone anyone physically resisting arrest.

At that point we weren't dealing with a cop arresting a criminal, we were dealing with someone interfering with patient care. Resisting them was appropriate. Calling a real cop (or at least a cop with a correct set of priorities) and having them removed from the scene would have been even more appropriate.

If there was an assault of some kind, you're all rushing to judgment condemning the cops.

I would condemn the cops for pulling over an ambulance engaged in an emergency transport for essentially trivial reasons, irrespective of what happened later.

I really wish all of you leaping to judgment would take a moment to consider that you're seeing 30 seconds of video about an incident that apparently occurred off-video. Before you rush to your conclusion, consider that you don't have all the facts or information.

On that we are in full agreement.

[helicopper 1,050]

We are all leaping to judgement because some of us have disagreed with the way the cops handled this? Give me a break.

No one claimed the paramedic was a saint or was free from any blame and there are obviously details we are not privy to. But, unless it's Oklahoma protocol to pull over and accost every driver who doesn't sufficiently yield to an emergency vehicle, i am confident in my opinion that this was not handled properly by the police.

I don't know what led up to the situation we see on the video. I only know what I saw on the video and that was a uniformed police officer informing someone that they were under arrest. When he took the subjects wrist, he pulled away from the trooper and physically resisted. According to NYS law that's resisting arrest.

All these wild generalizations about police in this thread are out of control. I'm basing my opinion solely on the little we saw in the video and am not implying that the police were right or the that the paramedic was wrong except as I stated above. I will certainly say that it could have been handled better but I'm not going to judge based on incomplete information.

Rest assured that all this will be investigated and, if appropriate, the police officers involved will be dealt with in accordance with the law and their department's rules and regulations (rules and regulations that are generally more stringent than any the law or fire/EMS rules).

The EMT was quite proper to resist. <snip> At that point we weren't dealing with a cop arresting a criminal, we were dealing with someone interfering with patient care. Resisting them was appropriate.

It is never appropriate to resist arrest under any circumstances. Yes, the trooper may be wrong but there are mechanisms to deal with that none of them involve resisting arrest. "Someone" was a uniformed state trooper.

Believe me, I find it hard to believe that the entire situation transpired but it did and now we're speculating about it and we're drawing conclusions without the facts. It is very likely that the trooper(s) were out of line but I'm not going to condemn them without the full story - a story which we will probably never be privy to.

Goose, we don't have all the information but if you read this thread you see some wild generalizations about cops, how these cops should be locked up and/or disciplined and so on. That's my point. I'm not saying the paramedic is or isn't a saint but come on, who knows what really happened. I'll be the first to say that the situation was not handled well but beyond that I just don't know what happened or who is really to blame for it. It could be that both parties escalated it, who knows?

[wolf12601 0]

I don't know what led up to the situation we see on the video. I only know what I saw on the video and that was a uniformed police officer informing someone that they were under arrest. When he took the subjects wrist, he pulled away from the trooper and physically resisted. According to NYS law that's resisting arrest.

All these wild generalizations about police in this thread are out of control. I'm basing my opinion solely on the little we saw in the video and am not implying that the police were right or the that the paramedic was wrong except as I stated above. I will certainly say that it could have been handled better but I'm not going to judge based on incomplete information.

Rest assured that all this will be investigated and, if appropriate, the police officers involved will be dealt with in accordance with the law and their department's rules and regulations (rules and regulations that are generally more stringent than any the law or fire/EMS rules).

It is never appropriate to resist arrest under any circumstances. Yes, the trooper may be wrong but there are mechanisms to deal with that none of them involve resisting arrest. "Someone" was a uniformed state trooper.

Believe me, I find it hard to believe that the entire situation transpired but it did and now we're speculating about it and we're drawing conclusions without the facts. It is very likely that the trooper(s) were out of line but I'm not going to condemn them without the full story - a story which we will probably never be privy to.

Goose, we don't have all the information but if you read this thread you see some wild generalizations about cops, how these cops should be locked up and/or disciplined and so on. That's my point. I'm not saying the paramedic is or isn't a saint but come on, who knows what really happened. I'll be the first to say that the situation was not handled well but beyond that I just don't know what happened or who is really to blame for it. It could be that both parties escalated it, who knows?

Your correct, we all only have part of the story. However, the negative reaction that most posters are expressing is based on many instances, either witnessed personally or by media access, of cops that are out of control. Too many in my opinion for the amount of training that each officer receives over the course of their career.

Ed

Edited May 28, 2009 by wolf12601

[Goose 188]

Chris - i understand where you are coming from and you have a different way of looking at this particular situation (as a officer) than i do. I can't speak for anyone but myself but i am not anti-cop or am one to throw them under the bus. I actually pride myself in having great relationships with the cops i work side by side with. God knows they've saved my rear a few times.

That said, no one is above criticism or investigation. Given what i've read and seen concerning this incident, i just can't help but feel that this was a complete over reaction on the part of the officers. The circumstances surrounding the traffic stop seem a bit silly and the altercation that occurred afterword is disturbing. They treated the paramedic like a perp - even before he (arguable i suppose) resisted arrest. Again, knowing what i know (very little and who knows how its been twisted) it looks to me like there was some degree of fault on all sides.

[abaduck 123]

It is never appropriate to resist arrest under any circumstances. Yes, the trooper may be wrong but there are mechanisms to deal with that none of them involve resisting arrest. "Someone" was a uniformed state trooper.

You tell me (or even speculate sensibly) what business the cops had that was more important than transporting a patient to the ER, and I'll concede that point. Otherwise...

[99subi 121]

I refuse to make any judgemental reply until all the facts are shown. No one knows what happen before the video except for those who were present at the time.

[16fire5 693]

I have a hard time believing that this was the proper way to address alleged failure to yield righ of way. As with all the other posters I have had bad experiences with "hot headed" cops. But I would venture to guess this is less than 1% of the interactions I have had with law enforcement. The vast majority of my and I'm sure most law abiding citizens interactions with law enforcement are good. Unfortunatly people only remember the bad. I always advise the firefighters I work with when we run into a disagreement not to fight because in the end the guy with the handcuffs wins no matter who's right.

The video shows conclusivly the Paramedic resisted arrest and that is never appropriate.

[RWC130 594]

IN MY OPINION....

Failure to yield to the Police Officer was probably NOT on purpose.

It says the Police Officer was traveling at a "High Speed" ?

I've been on the Sprain Parkway and Saw Mill Parkway when State Police or

County Police came up behind me Code 3 (paying attention to my mirror and seeing

the police vehicle approaching with red lights on I immediately pulled to the right)

however I did not actually hear the siren until he was right on my rear bumper or almost passing.

Add to that, Windows closed, Radio on, A/C, other distractions?

One article says the Siren was not on?

I am sure the Police Officer got a little "Hot" and maybe rightfully so.

Was he going to a "10-13"?

Maybe the Driver of the Ambulance was slow in yielding or didn't yield at all?

I was NOT in the Police Car, Ambulance, or a Witness to the incident so it's hard to say what happened.

BUT......... As we can all clearly see the Police Officer did inform him that he is UNDER ARREST

and at that point he should have complied with the Police Officer.

Right or Wrong it's a lawful order from a uniformed Police Officer.

The minute he put his hands on the Police Officer he was DONE!!!

That was just STUPID!

If Chris192 told me I was under arrest for drinking a Carvel Milk Shake I would NOT be too happy

but I would not resist arrest. Well, Carvel... Maybe I would. LOL!

This could have been handled internally between PD and EMS Supervisors.

PROFESSIONALISM!

[helicopper 1,050]

You tell me (or even speculate sensibly) what business the cops had that was more important than transporting a patient to the ER, and I'll concede that point. Otherwise...

We're in total agreement that the underlying situation and the timing of the "interaction" is highly suspect - something prompted the trooper to stop the ambulance at the time (maybe, and this pure speculation on my part they didn't have lights/siren going because it was not necessary for their transport and the trooper didn't know they had a patient onboard).

Advocating resisting arrest under any circumstances is a risky proposition. From the medic's sworn "statement" it sounds as though he physically resisted arrest twice - that the trooper(s) allowed that to happen twice is another breakdown but that's for another thread. My only point is that if a uniformed police officer informs you that you are under arrest, you're under arrest, to physically resist is another charge that may stand regardless of the disposition of the underlying charge(s). People also tend to get hurt in situations like that. For anyone to suggest that it is appropriate to physically resist arrest is just plain wrong, end of story. Tell you partner to call another ambulance, comply with the trooper, and then let the chips fall where they may. I'll tell you if the medic complied with the trooper and was taken into custody without struggle it would make the whole thing look even worse for the trooper.

Believe me, I'm being sensible. If you resist arrest you're apt to get hurt, a cop is apt to get hurt, and the situation will only escalate. Where is the sense in that?

[JCESU 20]

If you take a closer look at the video on 'youtube' the bus does not have any emergency lights activated. I understand the issue of stopping a bus that is in the process of transporting a pt to the hospital in an emergency. I think we all get the point. I am thinking that the Trooper was cut-off (or whatever the infraction was) by the bus that was simply traveling down the road unaware that they had a PT on board. Simply put-its no different than any other vehicle on the road at that time and was stopped by OHP. As for the rest of the incident none of us were there and have NO idea what transpired. What boggles my mind is some of the responses that have been typed on here. I assure you that if you take acception with the way you are treated by an Officer there is a venue for your complaint. And its not at the scene, MV stop etc. As an aside I have to imagine that the PT could not have been so 'critical' as the family member almost instantaneously felt the need to leep out of the bus and play the part of Geraldo Rivera. And just so its clear... resisting arrest is NEVER EVER a good idea. Besides the obvious, any credibility you may have had will be greatly diminished. We had a decent size BBQ during the night at our quarters and all the EMS units were in and out most of the night this would have made for some interesting discussion at the least..... Stay Safe!

[JetPhoto 626]

In a perfect world, the ambulance should have given the right of way (if the trooper's lights were on) stopped when indicated. The officer should have asked if a patient was on board and once this is known, he should have asked what hospital they were going to and followed the ambulance to the hospital and dealt with the driver in a professional manor.

I don't feel it was right for the cops to deal with the EMT in the back the way they did when he was telling them to do this at the hospital. Apparently the transport was not life threatening if it was the troopers would definitely be wrong delaying transport and dealt with it after the patient was TOT the ER

[MerlinMedic 5]

Rest assured that all this will be investigated and, if appropriate, the police officers involved will be dealt with in accordance with the law and their department's rules and regulations (rules and regulations that are generally more stringent than any the law or fire/EMS rules).

Actually, I am NOT assured that anything will be done, the DA is investigating the EMS crew, NOT the police. Too much is swept under the carpet when it comes to EMS. God forbid this is a comercial EMS outfit, then they are automatically wrong -- got to safe the contract.

Can cops be jerks, yup. Does it look bad from the video, yup. Could the medic be wrong, yup. Too much ego here. If a cop puled me over (actually one did in a rig -- his Sargent was on scene so fast & appologized to me, but thats an other story), I would be screaming over county for a supervisor/Sargent.

Something is fishy here. Hopefully the DA will release the dash cam, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

[1210671 10]

I can't believe all the cop bashing that is taking place here, I thought we were all in an emergency services forum and looked out for another.

Believe me, I would never look to interfere, let alone arrest, another emergency service worker doing their job, however there are plenty of documented incidents where people take their roles way to far. I've personally witnessed obstructive interference on several occassions during my long career.

I wholeheartedly agree with Chris in that he refuses to pass judgement with limited information and wish the other "professionals" on this board would do the same.

Please stop telling cops how to enforce the law and recognize that most cops will not interfere with medics who are engaged in saving lives as they thankfully (and sometimes thanklessly) do every day.

[MerlinMedic 5]

Please stop telling cops how to enforce the law and recognize that most cops will not interfere with medics who are engaged in saving lives as they thankfully (and sometimes thanklessly) do every day.

I agree, we need to stop telling other services how to do their job. EMS does not tell police how to solove a crime, nor fire how to put out the flames ( we might fan them, but THAT is something else ). Yet, some agencies can't get it thru their head that if the patient isn't on fire, get the truck outa the way. And yes, that is in Dutchess County. UpStae, unfortunetly, everyone thinks they are the medic until they are holding a corpse, then they call me and expect me to fix it.

An idea that will never catch on: inter-agency ride alongs. Police on fire & EMS, fire on PD & EMS, & EMS on PD & fire. I did that many years ago in REMO. WOW! The police were great in polietly pointing out that I had no clue about their work. And they saw that they weren't EMS and want no part in it. I was a volly firefieghter, so never did a cross service ride there.