Southern Westchester Merger Study

[Mofire24 27]

AN EMS CALL IS COVERED FINE IN MOHEGAN FIRES YOU DONT HEAR TONE AFTER TONE AFTER CONFIRMING A STRUCTUAL FIRE THEY WILL RETONE AND CONFIRM A FIRE WE ALSO HAPPEN TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OUR RADIO SYSTEM SETTING OFF THE NEWER PAGERS. MOHEGAN IS ONE OF THE BEST!

[Guest BJM123]

Almost every department in the county has problems with man power. Just about everytime there is a fire ,big or samll, the department with a fire calls mutual aid. (2-3 departments are called) and if it's more than 1 room burning, forget it,(4-5 departments will be called). So to get back on the subject, to merge southern departments it would cost a fortune, which i don't think people will want to pay for.

[Guest]

Hello Boys,

I stand corrected on one minor item, Fire Districts may be in two different towns ( bad info. from attorney) However, I stand by everything else I had to say. I even managed to find out in the state law that incorporated cities may not be part of a fire district at all under any circumstance. A city may provide coverage to a fire protection district, but that's a whole 'nother horse.

As too people not caring what it says on the equipment, you must be living in a dream world if you think this doesn't matter. Go through this county and see what has been done to just to get a " posh" mailing address ( Bronxville, Scarsdale, Rye Brook etc. ).

Appearences matter to these idiots! And no matter how you cut it your not going to tell me that some yuppie who just paid for a million dollar home in Pelham Manor or Eastchester, that your now going to have to pay the freight for your less fortunate bretheren on South 11th Avenue or along North Ave. is going to fly. The politician that votes for this will be cutting his own throat. Then again this is just an extension of the late unlamented Westchester2000 study ( led by old clueless, Dr. Sal Prezioso), a study best left where it has been languishing, the county archives mens room.

As to forward thinking, remember it was " forward thinking " that landed this county with Rural Metro. Repeat after me,Privatization

All I'm saying on that one is boys:just because it's a new idea , it doesn't make it a good idea.

Example....... Fog nozzles are the great cure all, staight tips are ancient history and dangerous... well, that one didn't pan out did it? Yep, back to straight tips. I can cite at least a dozen of these types of issues.

ALS.. A combination department, I believe,is truly a possible solution to the Mt. Vernon situation. However any time I have brought this up or anyone else for that matter, members of this board attack like the inquisition on heretics, the stakes are out and the torches are lit and god help the hindmost.

[doug_e 0]

Here's an idea to kick around. Desparate times call for desparate measures...

First the unions have to realize that they aren't going to be able to grow their ranks through stonewalling and now should accept that, for their safety, they need to accept volunteer support in a highly structured format. They don't own the fire service, they are employees. The community leadership needs to take back their departments for the safety of their public and their employees. Face it, the cold truth is that there will be a sh%^ storm if using volunteers is proposed. But at this point, maybe, too bad.

The Dep't of Emergency Services could develop a Mutual Aid Task Force comprised of top shelf firefighters from around the county on call for mutual aid duty in the region we're discussing.

Top shelf means certified, well trained, experienced, active firefighters. Something tells me there won't be too much trouble getting people to sign up for it. The task force can be actively managed to insure that it is staffed and can be dispatched via 60 Control.

Just a feeble stab at the start of a solution to this problem.

Opinions, anyone???? 8-[

[Guest]

Here's an idea to kick around. Desparate times call for desparate measures...

First the unions have to realize that they aren't going to be able to grow their ranks through stonewalling and now should accept that, for their safety, they need to accept volunteer support in a highly structured format. They don't own the fire service, they are employees. The community leadership needs to take back their departments for the safety of their public and their employees. Face it, the cold truth is that there will be a sh%^ storm if using volunteers is proposed. But at this point, maybe, too bad.

The Dep't of Emergency Services could develop a Mutual Aid Task Force comprised of top shelf firefighters from around the county on call for mutual aid duty in the region we're discussing.  

Top shelf means certified, well trained, experienced, active firefighters. Something tells me there won't be too much trouble getting people to sign up for it. The task force can be actively managed to insure that it is staffed  

Opinions, anyone????   8-[

doug e

What world are you living in, You have got to be Kidding, top shelf,well trained and active vol ff is a good thought, but what in the heck are you going to do in the middle of the day, when volunteer response is almost non existence. just listen to the county radio,multi tones no response. Where is this elite team suppose to come from. and everyone has an opinion.

again just to say this plan or study won't work, too many NY state laws to overcome and as I said before the taxpayers aren't going to pay for the poorer sections and the local Goverments aren't going to give up control. ](*,) Sad but True. Old thought same story and result. NRFD approx 160 FF"S, MVFD approx 140 FF'S,

EAST FD appox 70 FF's, PEL FD approx 17 FF"S PEL MAN FD approx 14 FF"S who pays what . and where does the Chief come from. also you have 2 cities, fire districts and villiages involved all with different laws.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Sorry, but still not biting on the name thing. Yes they have fought for posh mailing addresses, but when the time comes, or I'm willing to bet they couldn't tell you what name is on your truck right now. Especially all of you that like to label them with your company names. Emergencies are emergencies, mailing addresses are mailing addresses, apples and oranges. What exactly is in a name anyway, again, most will not care what name is on the fire truck, ambulance etc that pulls up out front. Most of these places are covered by empress or some other private ambulance service who have many ambulances that are less then desirable. You gonna tell me they are gonna worry about what the name on a fire truck is? I laugh at that notion. For those of you who have company names on your trucks within a department, ask someone who had a call in their house what company name trucks were there. Bet you they can't even tell you the unit numbers. But I bet you they can tell you they were big red, had hose and ladders. Unless you have some other color trucks.

As far as accepting the volunteer support theory. Your kidding me right. There are tons of combo fire departments out there that have career staff that are all for working together but are stuck behind the ego's or I'll put it this way...insecurities of the volunteer service.

We don't own the fire service, we may be employees but it is our profession. No one owns the fire service but the taxpayers, and those we serve. When I wake up I'm a firefighter, when you wake up your a what? Stock broker, mechanic, security guard, business manager? So excuse us if we look at things a bit different when we survive and want to improve our profession like you want to when your doing what you do to survive.

[doug_e 0]

pbvpm - Opinion, anyone??? was a question asking if anyone had an opinion and guess what ???? You did! Thanks for your input.

All I'm suggesting is that maybe there is something between all paid or all burn.

[Remember585 815]

This is just a WARNING to all of you.

This is a topic discussing a study that could or could not benefit a specific area. This IS NOT a "Paid vs. volunteer" or "Our district is better than yours" discussion.

Furthermore, no "bashing," "name-calling," "shin-kicking," or non-constructive posts will be tolerated on here!!!

Thank you,

Remember585

Fire-Rescue Moderator

[CG206 29]

Amen brother Muns...Cant we all just get along?

[mstrang1 213]

Briefly getting back to the "what name is on the fire truck" idea. I cannot count the times that I told residents that Ardsley was a completely volunteer department and they were floored!

Responses included:

"You mean that there isn't at least ONE person there at all times?!"

"The Chief isn't even paid?!"

"Who drives?! Volunteers?!"

"So you have to drive all the way to the firehouse and then get on the fire truck(or engine, but they dont know the difference...) and go to the call?!"

Yes people, sometimes the residents do not even know that there are volunteers out there, nevermind the name of the department. Just some food for thought.....

[HFD209 4]

First of all Involving Paul Feiner in a possible merge in greenburgh is beyond me. The guy has problems with makeing decisions on a new library. Yes i believe he should get involved at some point, but he seems to be more talk and show then action. We recieved a letter form him 2 years ago asking for a meeting with the three volunteer department heads for possible office positions at the new town hall. This was great that he showed support for us and was trying to unify and organize eveything. But as i said that was two years ago and im still waiting for a phone call back for the appointmant to be made.

Then there is a question about greenburgh. Isnt there a section of greenville aka edgemont , that want to seperate for greenburgh and develope thier own section and form of government. Im not bashing those in favor of it, and frankley im sick of Feiner's antics too. But im not here to bash Paul. But if indeed there is a split in greenburgh to edgemont, what then. B/c technically that would be part of greenburgh. Corporated or unicorporated . no one will know. And greenburgh doesnt just include hartsdale fairview and greenville ther are opther sections of greenburgh. Merge is an excellent idea, but will it happen, no one will surley know if it will and if it does will it work?

[firemn23 8]

How many volunteers are there in each of the 3 greenburgh departments.

[GFD70 4]

Greenville has about 30 on the roster, but only about 10 -15 are active w/ about 7 - 10 that are interior certified.

[Guest]

Greenville has about 30 on the roster, but only about 10 -15 are active w/ about 7 - 10 that are interior certified.

[-X So many Fire Departments don't use real manpower numbers and they misled the public. [-(

[GFD70 4]

Isnt there a section of greenville aka edgemont , that want to seperate for greenburgh and develope thier own section and form of government.

Edgemont school district a.k.a Greenville fire district has been talking about forming their own village for some time now. This issue comes up every 10-15 years and always fails once they realize how much more they would have to pay in taxes etc.

So many Fire Departments don't use real manpower numbers and they misled the public.

Greenville has never misled anyone on manpower. We have 24 career FF's, 5 career Capt.s 1 A/C & 1 chief. The Greenville Fire Company a.k.a the volunteers have as I said before about 30 members. Like any other volunteer company not all are active. In Greenville the volunteers are used primaraly scene support and to assist the paid FF's at fires. Volunteers respond on all calls except mdecial calls, MVA's & HAZ-Mat calls. Also, we respond to HQ on a Signal 9 when either the engine or ladder goes on M/A and are usually released once the career call-back has been filled.

[Guest]

In Greenville the volunteers are used primaraly scene support and to assist the paid FF's at fires. Volunteers respond on all calls except mdecial calls' date=' MVA's & HAZ-Mat calls. Also, we respond to HQ on a Signal 9 when either the engine or ladder goes on M/A and are usually released once the career call-back has been filled.[/quote']

It hardly seems worth it to volunteer if you are going to be released when career ff have been called back and you cant go to MVA's and such. It is probably why volunteer numbers are so low.

Do the vol's ever get to perfrom interior operations?

[HFD23 37]

That's not true, they can go mutual aid in Greenville and they often respond on 2nd alarms with car 2153 and or rescue 29... they only time they are released on signal 9's is in the case of ladder 4 or a engine going to Yonkers or MT Vernon where volunteers are not welcome.....

Hartsdale Approx 30 volunteers on the roster with about 15 active, 10 of which are interior FF's....

We have 4 volunteer officers

28 paid FF's

4 Paid Captains

4 Paid Deputy Chiefs

and 1 Paid Chief

[27east 19]

how many FFs on duty each tour in Greenville and Hartsdale? What about Fairview?

[GFD70 4]

In Greenville, each shift has six FF's (3 on L4 & 3 on E150), 1 captain(rides on E150 or L4 dependiing on the call), On weekdays there is also a training officer (capt.) who usually ride on which ever rig the duty capt' is not on, as well as the chief & A/C.

As far as Signal 9's, volunteers first respond to H/Q. From there we will either go to the scene(if requested) as HFD211 said or stand by in quarters and respond on any calls in G'Ville in R29 or 2153. At the same time as a Signal 9, there is a call back to fill the spots of the crew that went on M/A. Once the staffing # is filled, we have the option of being released or staying until the truck comes back.

[HFD23 37]

Hartsdale full staffing per tour is as follows

1 DC - car 2172

3 FF's and 1 Capt on Engine 170, which is the M/A engine

Then it varries based on the deputy some like 3 FF's on engine 169 and 1 FF on Tl-15 others like

2 FF's on 169 and 2FF's on the Tower....

so that is 7 FF's and 2 officers for a total of 9 men per tour

* Note there is also 1 additional FF who works a 24 maning the Desk who doesn;t respond.

[Pudge3311 5]

Ok. The merger will work. Will it take time to organize, get everyone on the same page, Figure out whose in charge, what radio frequencies to operate on, work out when and where volunteers can go and respond, YES. Lets look at the results that might be obtained. More Firefighters per responding rig. Less overall apparatus responding, as well as less maintanance costs. More Firefighters arriving with proper training.

For those who talk about addresses and where one lives, save it. How bout your house is on fire. How bout there are 3 guys arriving, and they call for mutual aid, and it takes another 10 minutes for another six or seven guys to get there? Sure the first three guys do as much as they can, but wouldnt you rather have the next ten guys there 2 to 4 minutes after the first 3 guys? The point is getting more manpower to the scene faster, minimizing the cost to the taxpayer.

You the taxpayer. Combine the services, save the money, and in the long run, the taxes will be less. Why, because there is a much bigger area that the money is coming from. Everyone B*tches and moans about their taxes going up, for once maybe you should open your eyes and see that it might actually be the smart thing to do.

[firecapt32 282]

The consolidiation issue has been around for many years, and will,still be around long after I'm out of the fire service business. Is it possible?? yes What will it take? Lose of life??I hope not. You can study till the cows come home,burt with union contracts, eleced officials, home owners not wanting their taxes raised, it dsent seem likey at least not soon.

Is it a good idea for the consumer(the general public) will it produce a beter product(firefighter capibility) I think so whoo is the first o give up their kingdom?? the M.VF.D. chief?

the commissioner of New Rochelle?

[ex-commish 490]

Being Hawthorne was mentioned in one of the posts I felt compelled to respond. I agree now and did when the Westchester 2000 report came out. I been involved in Mt. Pleasant for almost 25 years in both fire and ems and feel the time has come to look into merging the 4 departments ( valhalla, pville, twood, hawthorne). You could reduce the amount of chiefs cars stations, apparatus and yet pool the most valuable resource....manpower. We would be about 300 strong and perhaps more if you included ems. Perhaps a fulltime or part time chief would be necessary or some full time administrative positions would also be needed. The town could be split up into battallions each having a batt chief with each station having it's officers.

The question is and will always be..who is going to relinquish thier authority? What stations do you close? What LOSAP program do you go with? What apparatus do you get rid of? Would this dept come under town govt or a fire district and if so how do you aboilsh the existing fire districts? Not that easy of a process but a cost savings one in the long run. Just my humboe opinion.

Andy Mancusi

Hawthorne FD

[CAM502 6]

the M.VF.D. chief?

the commissioner of New Rochelle?

Hey Capt. how many times we gotta say it. It's FDMV. ](*,) Nothing personal just had to break 'um.

[firecapt32 282]

no matter which way you spell it!!! its the same!!

who is the first to give it up.

In Greenburgh all of the fire Chiefs have over 30 yrs on the job. some hav a lot more a whole lot more.

Which Chief is going to retire to let the consolidiated chief take over??

whos kingdom will fall first do you think they are thinking of the " Greater good"

[Guest]

a pefect example on merging or who should merger is verplanck,buchanan, and montrose. each firehouse is within 1.5 miles of each other or less. why duplicate services like that. at least the iso milage is kept low. but I donn't think you'll ever see it

[CAM502 6]

no matter which way you spell it!!! its the same!!

who is the first to give it up.

In Greenburgh all of the fire Chiefs have over 30 yrs on the job. some hav a lot more  a whole lot  more.

Which Chief is going to retire to let the consolidiated chief take over??

whos kingdom will fall first do you think they are thinking of the " Greater good"

Ok first off it's not the same, but I'm not here to fight over it. Second off this new Chief's position should be civil service. So new job = new test. You get rid of anyone who is appointed and didn't have to test for the job, and whoever is left takes the test. Then you have one Chief of Department and the others become Deputy's or Battalion or whatever you wanna call them. I'm sure this new department will be large enough that you will have to split it like Yonkers or NYC do. Now this is assuming the merger would make a paid department, which it should be because the the area in question is too busy to have to wait for a crew during the day time. If the idea was for half and half then the merger just won't work(and i'm not bashing the vollies here so don't take it that way, all FD's do the same job, THEY SAVE LIVES.). Now I'm only talking about the lower Westchester study not Greenburgh so... well that's enough rambling. Just my take on things.

[Guest Truckie 1075]

look at Greenburg, Elmsford, Hartsdale, Greenville, Fairview and Scarsdale have 3 towers and 2 sticks...  and we probably cover a smaller area then those 5 districts...

Just to clarify the apperatus resorces you stated... Between the five departments you speak of you accually have 4 Towers & 3 Sticks.. Elmsford has 1TL & 1 SS. Hartsdale has the one TL, Greenville has the one SS, Fairview HAs the one TL, and Scarsdale has the 1TL & 1SS. Just so you know what is out there..

Also even yonkers calls M/A

[27east 19]

I think Scarsdale FD has Ladder 29, a tower, as the only front line piece. I think the ALF stick is a spare. Not sure though.......

[HFD209 4]

No i can see whats CAM502 is saying. B/c the reltionships between the piad and volleys are different in all three departments. In Harstdale it couldnt be better. Fairview, im not to sure about. but i think in greenville there is some friction. And how would the merge not effectr the relationships, it would in a way, b/c now you will be getting triple the amount of volleys responding to a scene. Which im not saying isnt a good thing, But how would those people that arenot big fans of volleys feel.?