Glenham - Fatal Bicyclist Struck 6-7-10 Question

[EMSer 15]

I'm not asking this to start anything, I just have a question regarding the duration of CPR and by whom the CPR was being done by. The post states:

17:43 Glenham 43-2 on the scene CPR in progress. Glenham 43-61 Responding, 43-12 on the scene

17:55 PD report medical examiner enroute eta 45 minutes

Just wondering who made the determination to stop CPR, if in fact CPR was actually started. I know the info on these posts are always what actually happens on scene. If someone could clarify I would appreciate it. Thanks

Again I am in no way questioning those on scene, I'm just trying to add the missing piece of the puzzle.

Indeed a very sad story and hope all the responders are doing well

Original Posting:

My http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=37304&pid=212411&st=0entry212411

Edited June 11, 2010 by EMSer

[PVFD233 68]

I'm not asking this to start anything, I just have a question regarding the duration of CPR and by whom the CPR was being done by. The post states:

Just wondering who made the determination to stop CPR, if in fact CPR was actually started. I know the info on these posts are always what actually happens on scene. If someone could clarify I would appreciate it. Thanks

Again I am in no way questioning those on scene, I'm just trying to add the missing piece of the puzzle.

Indeed a very sad story and hope all the responders are doing well

Original Posting:

My http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=37304&pid=212411&st=0entry212411

I am guessing since 82-89 was on the scene at 17:46 that he called CPR off. Pretty solid guess.

[Remember585 815]

I wouldn't post the answer to this question on here. God only knows who is looking and what kind of angle someone might be going for.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

If CPR was started by bystanders or even first responders and was contraindicated it would be appropriate to terminate. If brain matter is all over the street, there's no point in doing CPR because it won't help. Other signs of obvious death could also have been present. There is a protocol for field termination of cardiac arrest so they probably went by that.

The decison should have been made by the highest medical provider on the scene after assessing the patient.

[JM15 386]

I was thinking the same thing Remember585... In the litigious society that we live in now I would be very hesitant to post information like that on a "public" forum.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

I wouldn't post the answer to this question on here. God only knows who is looking and what kind of angle someone might be going for.

This is ridiculous. It is a legit question and if the guy was dead the guy was dead and CPR wasn't going to bring him back. There are protocols for the field termination of resuscitation and that gets talked about all the time. So what?

[xfirefighter484x 234]

I was thinking the same thing Remember585... In the litigious society that we live in now I would be very hesitant to post information like that on a "public" forum.

I concur.

I think the question would have been better suited as a PM, just my 2 cents...

[ny10570 745]

This is an excellent question for this forum. I've seen many new medics transport a body because they weren't clear on field termination. If a lawyer knows enough to go on here for info on that job they know enough to get the tapes and PCRs.

NYC, once CPR is started by anyone we have to call telemetry for termination. They could be doing CPR on a torso and you're suppose to call. Had a nursing home working up a guy found in his chair. Rigor had set in while he was seated so he was on his back, arms and knees pointing to the sky while the nurses went to town on him. I let them keep going while I called the doc. Firefighters thought it was hilarious and the nurses were livid. Definitely worth the complaint they made to my Lt.

[Remember585 815]

This is ridiculous. It is a legit question and if the guy was dead the guy was dead and CPR wasn't going to bring him back. There are protocols for the field termination of resuscitation and that gets talked about all the time. So what?

It's a legit question, but people need to be careful what they post in public. I don't see how posting the answer is of any use to anyone to see.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

It's a legit question, but people need to be careful what they post in public. I don't see how posting the answer is of any use to anyone to see.

The answer to this question could be of assistance to all EMTs/medics regarding field termination of CPR. While this incident specifically does not need to be discussed, it could/should be a hardy discussion of field termination and its proper techniques could be of help, informative or interesting to those you want to know. I personally do not care one way or another if the details are released but this incident could serve as nothing more than a case study, if HIPPA is not violated than what is the harm? After all it says at the top of everyones screen: "your knowledge helping others".

Edited June 12, 2010 by bvfdjc316

[NWFDMedic 58]

Call me crazy but this is a public site. As such, we have to keep in mind that patient's families or maybe other parties involved may have access to this site. I, for one, would not want to relive and relive this tragic incident because someone wanted to post details on an Internet site.

If someone would like to post a constructive thread on field terminations and maybe discuss the differences between states and region, that could be a learning experience. To discuss this specific case on the Internet is completely unprofessional and inappropriate.

[Remember585 815]

The answer to this question could be of assistance to all EMTs/medics regarding field termination of CPR. While this incident specifically does not need to be discussed, it could/should be a hardy discussion of field termination and its proper techniques could be of help, informative or interesting to those you want to know. I personally do not care one way or another if the details are released but this incident could serve as nothing more than a case study, if HIPPA is not violated than what is the harm? After all it says at the top of everyones screen: "your knowledge helping others".

Yeah junior, and it shouldn't be a discussion about a specific incident. Patient care discussions should be non-incident specific.

Call me crazy but this is a public site. As such, we have to keep in mind that patient's families or maybe other parties involved may have access to this site. I, for one, would not want to relive and relive this tragic incident because someone wanted to post details on an Internet site.

If someone would like to post a constructive thread on field terminations and maybe discuss the differences between states and region, that could be a learning experience. To discuss this specific case on the Internet is completely unprofessional and inappropriate.

Exactly my point.

[TS7542 6]

I agree with nwfdmedic. As a person that was on scene and had to work on this kid was a tradgedy in its own. He does have family members on this site and it shouldn't be revisited in a public forum.

[PEMO3 523]

I agree with "585" if the purpose of the post was to open a forum to discuss the reasons or protocol for field-termination of CPR than it should have been done in a hypothetical, non call specific manner. If it was to find out specifics to a personal question about a call then a PM would be more appropriate. To get into patient specific call information violates HIPAA laws regardless of the final disposition of the patient. First rule of thumb: never discuss patient or call specific information in public or with parties not related to the call. To do so both looks unprofessional and leaves you liable for personal litigation.