Volunteer's idle spin wrecks ambulance

[trauma74 111]

http://www.recordonl...&emailAFriend=1

MONROE — A volunteer ambulance driver veered off Route 17M and rolled his rig on the roadside early Monday morning while taking an idle spin.

Edited September 3, 2010 by jack10562
to comply with source site Copyright Notice

[stephen morea 1]

Well I guess they'll be gettin dropped by there insurance company, 2 wrecks in less than a year. I have said it in my department and will say it here, this is what happens with inexpieriance and not having driven anything bigger than a toyota camry, you should know every bit about the vehicle and how to drive the vehicle before even putting it in drive, (which is another joke, but thats for another forum).

[Alpinerunner 61]

Well I guess they'll be gettin dropped by there insurance company, 2 wrecks in less than a year. I have said it in my department and will say it here, this is what happens with inexpieriance and not having driven anything bigger than a toyota camry, you should know every bit about the vehicle and how to drive the vehicle before even putting it in drive, (which is another joke, but thats for another forum).

The article points towards a sleeping pill being the cause of the wreck, not inexperience. The guy is 30 and travelled from the Bronx to continue to serve his old VAC. At least this is the story being told by the article.

[stephen morea 1]

Yea but, today in our local monroe area paper they said he took the rig out to get cigarettes. There was no call and he was not on duty. The reason I say inexpieriance is because if he took a sleeping pill then he should know enough not to take the truck out every sleeping pill says on it do not drive or operate machinery and to add to that I see all these kids that cant be more than 20 years old driving these things, granted he was 30 but still. some agencys out there need to have a tighter harness on there evoc, in my department it is a very long time before you are let go to drive. You are not let go until one of our in-house instructors who have been driving for years and have there CDL's (my father is one of them) says your ok. I have friends in other agencys that have not driven anything bigger than an accord drive a 45000 pound vehicle and it scares the bajeebas outta me.

Edited September 3, 2010 by stephen morea

[NWFDMedic 58]

I'm not sure if any amount of experience or time can guarantee a good driver of an emergency vehicle. I've been driving emergency vehicles now for 17 years and have never hit anything while moving forward (I had a deer hit ME once, jumped out of the roadside and hit my rear tire). I also backed into another ambulance (embarrassing story involving an ambulance covered with ice that I should've cleared before backing into the station). That being said, there are guys in my FD and my past FD that have been driving for 20 years that I plain old will not get on the rig with because I'm not confident in their ability. In contrast, I've worked with some 20 and 21 year olds that are very responsible driving the ambulance. I think that it's all about attitude and if someone doesn't have the right attitude, they shouldn't be driving your rigs. Incidents like this should remind all services that it's more important to have a competent operator than getting the rig off the floor.

[nycemt728 49]

Yea but, today in our local monroe area paper they said he took the rig out to get cigarettes. There was no call and he was not on duty. The reason I say inexpieriance is because if he took a sleeping pill then he should know enough not to take the truck out every sleeping pill says on it do not drive or operate machinery and to add to that I see all these kids that cant be more than 20 years old driving these things, granted he was 30 but still. some agencys out there need to have a tighter harness on there evoc, in my department it is a very long time before you are let go to drive. You are not let go until one of our in-house instructors who have been driving for years and have there CDL's (my father is one of them) says your ok. I have friends in other agencys that have not driven anything bigger than an accord drive a 45000 pound vehicle and it scares the bajeebas outta me.

What local paper? Any chance of a link?

[Atv300 69]

I'm not sure if any amount of experience or time can guarantee a good driver of an emergency vehicle. I've been driving emergency vehicles now for 17 years and have never hit anything while moving forward (I had a deer hit ME once, jumped out of the roadside and hit my rear tire). I also backed into another ambulance (embarrassing story involving an ambulance covered with ice that I should've cleared before backing into the station). That being said, there are guys in my FD and my past FD that have been driving for 20 years that I plain old will not get on the rig with because I'm not confident in their ability. In contrast, I've worked with some 20 and 21 year olds that are very responsible driving the ambulance. I think that it's all about attitude and if someone doesn't have the right attitude, they shouldn't be driving your rigs. Incidents like this should remind all services that it's more important to have a competent operator than getting the rig off the floor.

Very well said about the atitude with driving the years/training helps but it still dosent make you a driver. I know some people that think if a person comes in with a CDL they should be able to drive. It helps but just because that guy has a CDL dosent mean he can drive without wreking the rig by bad or just plain abusive driving.

[MoFire390 118]

Yea but, today in our local monroe area paper they said he took the rig out to get cigarettes. There was no call and he was not on duty. The reason I say inexpieriance is because if he took a sleeping pill then he should know enough not to take the truck out every sleeping pill says on it do not drive or operate machinery and to add to that I see all these kids that cant be more than 20 years old driving these things, granted he was 30 but still. some agencys out there need to have a tighter harness on there evoc, in my department it is a very long time before you are let go to drive. You are not let go until one of our in-house instructors who have been driving for years and have there CDL's (my father is one of them) says your ok. I have friends in other agencys that have not driven anything bigger than an accord drive a 45000 pound vehicle and it scares the bajeebas outta me.

what does having a CDL have to do with the driver training program??? just because you can drive a tractor trailer doesnt mean you drive an ambulance... in my experience an ambulance is more top heavy then a tractor trailer. regradless of age and gender and whatever else comes into play, he opperated the rig while taking a sleep aid...not good judgement.

[Ga-Lin 86]

I think the issue is really one of membership, access & supervision, not of driving experience. One can have all the experience in the world & indeed be one of the best, all of which gets thrown out the window when you are under the influence of mind/judgment altering substances. Let's review the facts as we know them & as reported. The accident occurred at about 1AM. The individual was sleeping at the building yet not on duty. He took the ambulance for a personal use (to get smokes, I don't believe smoking is permitted in the building.) He took a controlled, mind/judgment altering substance, which as stated in previous posts, states on the bottle (if it was indeed legally prescribed to this person) to avoid driving or operating machinery. The questions the leadership, membership & community should be asking are these:

Do members have unrestricted, unsupervised access at anytime to use the building as a social club or hangout without taking calls? Why was this individual there after hrs & not on duty? Did leadership know he was even there & was it approved, if so why? Is the VAC subsidizing transient housing? Why didn't this individual take his own Pov instead of the ambulance?

Don't get me wrong, I've done my share of "crashing" in a variety of different places in my career, some of which even had clean sheets. It was always understood or stated that if a call came in I was on duty or on call as a second response. He got off easy. Two misdemeanors,driving while impaired by drugs & "unauthorized" use of a vehicle. Why not grand theft ambulance?

[INIT915 1,119]

He got off easy. Two misdemeanors,driving while impaired by drugs & "unauthorized" use of a vehicle. Why not grand theft ambulance?

Maybe because there is no such thing as "Grand Theft Ambulance."

[Ga-Lin 86]

He destroyed a 100K+ vehicle. It should be Grand theft something.

[INIT915 1,119]

He destroyed a 100K+ vehicle. It should be Grand theft something.

Well, the charge your thinking of would be Grand Larceny in the Second Degree, NYS PL 155.40, as the value of the theft exceeds $50,000.

In reality, in a situation like this, when the actor had an arguable property right to the stolen vehicle, the more appropriate charge would be Unauthorized Use of A Vehicle in the Third Degree, NYS PL 165.05.

[stephen morea 1]

what does having a CDL have to do with the driver training program??? just because you can drive a tractor trailer doesnt mean you drive an ambulance... in my experience an ambulance is more top heavy then a tractor trailer. regradless of age and gender and whatever else comes into play, he opperated the rig while taking a sleep aid...not good judgement.

When a guy drives a truck for a living all you have to do is go look at his driving record with the company he works for and look at his work truck. Those 2 things should tell it all and obviously his attitude. When you get a CDL, YOU are considered a professional driver, I dont know if you have ever taken a CDL written test but it is over 100 questions and pretty intense, the test will make you think. Im not gonna get into it but ive been through EVOC and the NYS CDL program, which one do you think is tougher to get through? Some departments, I know of at least 3, require you to have a CDL to drive, It weeds out and lessens the chance of an accident thats all im getting at. My personal feeling, its just mine and I know im gonna get crucifide for saying this but to be a driver in the fire service in NYS you should have pump ops, EVOC and a CDL or at least an endorsement on your license like CT does, LET THE HANGING BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Atv300 69]

When a guy drives a truck for a living all you have to do is go look at his driving record with the company he works for and look at his work truck. Those 2 things should tell it all and obviously his attitude. When you get a CDL, YOU are considered a professional driver, I dont know if you have ever taken a CDL written test but it is over 100 questions and pretty intense, the test will make you think. Im not gonna get into it but ive been through EVOC and the NYS CDL program, which one do you think is tougher to get through? Some departments, I know of at least 3, require you to have a CDL to drive, It weeds out and lessens the chance of an accident thats all im getting at. My personal feeling, its just mine and I know im gonna get crucifide for saying this but to be a driver in the fire service in NYS you should have pump ops, EVOC and a CDL or at least an endorsement on your license like CT does, LET THE HANGING BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There should not be a hanging. you have every right to that opinion look CT dose it NY did for a few months I personally do not know i am sure other states have CDL requirements. I used to believe a driver should have a CDL to drive a fire truck since take away the lights and department endorsing it its a commercial class vehicle. If and this is a big if, if you train your drivers in a manner that they learn its a CDL truck how it handles, brakes, and runs. The reason CDL sounds like the best option is due to the fact even if they suck driving they have an idea what air brakes are and how weight dist. works to your advantage and disadvantage. But no matter what the one side of the training needs to have the other IE CDL drivers need to train that its also a fire truck and carries water which moves even with baffles it moves most cargo dose not. People that lean its a fire truck need to learn its also a CDL class truck under its pretty red dress. Even taking a CDL driver lets say that drives bus for a living will have a leg up from the guy who drives a Mini but both need the extra training.

I guess what I am trying to say is no matter what nothing can replaces a well thought out driver training program your department sets up with all the bells thrown in about the truck and duties/ responsibilities taken on by the driver getting behind that wheel and actual drive time/ annual re certs. No matter what the guys qualification coming into the dept its up to the department to make him or her drive and act the way they set forth is best for the department.

I have to agree though about the real premise of this post its about why would the department let him do or have the chance to do this. although i am happy to see such a great discussion about driver quals.

[MoFire390 118]

When a guy drives a truck for a living all you have to do is go look at his driving record with the company he works for and look at his work truck. Those 2 things should tell it all and obviously his attitude. When you get a CDL, YOU are considered a professional driver, I dont know if you have ever taken a CDL written test but it is over 100 questions and pretty intense, the test will make you think. Im not gonna get into it but ive been through EVOC and the NYS CDL program, which one do you think is tougher to get through? Some departments, I know of at least 3, require you to have a CDL to drive, It weeds out and lessens the chance of an accident thats all im getting at. My personal feeling, its just mine and I know im gonna get crucifide for saying this but to be a driver in the fire service in NYS you should have pump ops, EVOC and a CDL or at least an endorsement on your license like CT does, LET THE HANGING BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how is an agency gonna know about a persons driving record? someone correct me if im wrong by the place were this incident took place is a VOLUNTEER agency. your gonna tell me that every agency should do driving record checks on ALL the members that drive?? are u crazy...thats just a straight up WASTE of money!!! ill tell u right now i've had accidents in my personal car 2 of which i totaled my car... you mean to tell me that the agency that i belong too shouldnt let me drive because of my PRIOR driving record??? honestly if there is a good driver training program out there its the EVOC class. people get in ACCIDENTS every day...THATS WHY THEY ARE CALLED ACCIDENTS!!!

do i think what this guy did was wrong? yes i do. and he should be held responsable for his actions because he knew he took the sleeping aid.

[dmc2007 17]

how is an agency gonna know about a persons driving record? someone correct me if im wrong by the place were this incident took place is a VOLUNTEER agency. your gonna tell me that every agency should do driving record checks on ALL the members that drive?? are u crazy...thats just a straight up WASTE of money!!! ill tell u right now i've had accidents in my personal car 2 of which i totaled my car... you mean to tell me that the agency that i belong too shouldnt let me drive because of my PRIOR driving record??? honestly if there is a good driver training program out there its the EVOC class. people get in ACCIDENTS every day...THATS WHY THEY ARE CALLED ACCIDENTS!!!

do i think what this guy did was wrong? yes i do. and he should be held responsable for his actions because he knew he took the sleeping aid.

I spent this past summer working for a rental car agency. My offer of employment was contingent on not having more than 1 ticket or at-fault accident in the past 3 years (as well as having no alcohol and driving-related convictions in the past 5 years). This was verified through a criminal and driving records check. Once hired, I could have been fired for having more than 3 tickets or at-fault accidents in a given year, whether on my personal time or while at work. Keep in mind, this is all for me to drive around cars averaging 10-30K in value (there were some more valuable cars in fleet, but none come even close to the value of an ambulance), with a fraction of the liability that an ambulance has. As far as costs go, considering that a good portion of volunteer agencies in the county drive custom-built ambulances that cost in excess of 100K, driving records checks seem like an excellent value. Besides which, why should it make a difference whether it's a volunteer or paid agency? Do our patients not have the right to safe and competent transport no matter where they live?

[jayhalsey 6]

how is an agency gonna know about a persons driving record? someone correct me if im wrong by the place were this incident took place is a VOLUNTEER agency. your gonna tell me that every agency should do driving record checks on ALL the members that drive?? are u crazy...thats just a straight up WASTE of money!!! ill tell u right now i've had accidents in my personal car 2 of which i totaled my car... you mean to tell me that the agency that i belong too shouldnt let me drive because of my PRIOR driving record??? honestly if there is a good driver training program out there its the EVOC class. people get in ACCIDENTS every day...THATS WHY THEY ARE CALLED ACCIDENTS!!!

do i think what this guy did was wrong? yes i do. and he should be held responsable for his actions because he knew he took the sleeping aid.

Do agencies perform a criminal background check before letting someone join? If not, they should. Would you want someone in your department that had been convicted of armed robbery? Manslaughter? These background checks are definitely not a waste of money, in my opinion. Why shouldnt that background check extend to the driving record? If there is an opportunity that that individual is going to get behind the wheel of a piece of machinery that weighs a hell of a lot and cost a hell of a lot it seems pretty straight forward. There is a reason that driving records are kept. If someone has gotten into a bunch of accidents, chances are it will happen again. Sure it could be a string of bad luck, but what are the chances of that?

CDLs and Q endorsements are great, but they are just a start. As someone said, there is alot that goes into driving a fire truck/ambulance. THe licensing should be just one requirement. The others being time in the department, as well as driver training on the piece that you will be driving. Every truck will behave differently, so you need to train and get to know how YOUR truck will handle and perform.

[Ga-Lin 86]

Well, the charge your thinking of would be Grand Larceny in the Second Degree, NYS PL 155.40, as the value of the theft exceeds $50,000.

In reality, in a situation like this, when the actor had an arguable property right to the stolen vehicle, the more appropriate charge would be Unauthorized Use of A Vehicle in the Third Degree, NYS PL 165.05.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I kind of figured it had something to do with access. Still, it is a shame he will get off so light. Thrown out of a Volunteer org., & walks away with 2 Mis: maybe less if the DA decides to plead him out.

[EJS1810 7]

how is an agency gonna know about a persons driving record? someone correct me if im wrong by the place were this incident took place is a VOLUNTEER agency. your gonna tell me that every agency should do driving record checks on ALL the members that drive?? are u crazy...thats just a straight up WASTE of money!!! ill tell u right now i've had accidents in my personal car 2 of which i totaled my car... you mean to tell me that the agency that i belong too shouldnt let me drive because of my PRIOR driving record??? honestly if there is a good driver training program out there its the EVOC class. people get in ACCIDENTS every day...THATS WHY THEY ARE CALLED ACCIDENTS!!!

do i think what this guy did was wrong? yes i do. and he should be held responsable for his actions because he knew he took the sleeping aid.

New York State DMV offers the LENS Program (Licence Emergency Notification System, I think). You sign up through the DMV website and you are notofied of tickets, suspensions, revocations and reported accidens of your members licences. It's a free service.

[MoFire390 118]

New York State DMV offers the LENS Program (Licence Emergency Notification System, I think). You sign up through the DMV website and you are notofied of tickets, suspensions, revocations and reported accidens of your members licences. It's a free service.

did not know there was such a thing...

what is a Q endorsement???tried researching it and i was unable to any information on it.

thanks

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

did not know there was such a thing...

what is a Q endorsement???tried researching it and i was unable to any information on it.

thanks

http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=805&q=244788

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0141.htm

Q endorsement is the title given to the certification in CT that an individual has obtained and passed the necessary training, experience and certification to drive an emergency vehicle. It is like an emergency vehicle CDL in CT as far as I can tell.

Edited September 5, 2010 by bvfdjc316

[wierdid 2]

http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=805&q=244788

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0141.htm

Q endorsement is the title given to the certification in CT that an individual has obtained and passed the necessary training, experience and certification to drive an emergency vehicle. It is like an emergency vehicle CDL in CT as far as I can tell.

It is the same test as the CDL test, both written and practical. There arent any restrictions on it though, i.e, BAC level.

[helicopper 1,050]

how is an agency gonna know about a persons driving record? someone correct me if im wrong by the place were this incident took place is a VOLUNTEER agency. your gonna tell me that every agency should do driving record checks on ALL the members that drive?? are u crazy...thats just a straight up WASTE of money!!! ill tell u right now i've had accidents in my personal car 2 of which i totaled my car... you mean to tell me that the agency that i belong too shouldnt let me drive because of my PRIOR driving record??? honestly if there is a good driver training program out there its the EVOC class. people get in ACCIDENTS every day...THATS WHY THEY ARE CALLED ACCIDENTS!!!

do i think what this guy did was wrong? yes i do. and he should be held responsable for his actions because he knew he took the sleeping aid.

It shouldn't matter that this was a volunteer agency. The management of a volunteer EMS agency has just as much responsibility to manage as does any other organization. We can't look the other way "because we're volunteers" nor should we elect to provide less supervision, training, and risk detection and mitigation because it comes at a cost. They didn't blink at spending 100K on the ambulance so they should be willing to spend 1K to protect that investment and their reputation if not the people they're tasked with protecting.

Another option is to simply require members to disclose any accidents, arrests, or tickets on a membership survey. Sure someone may lie but if they do and are caught it could be grounds for dismissal.

There are a lot of options but the bigger message here isn't the ambulance accident, it's the lack of management that allowed it to occur. This is strictly not a criticism of the VAC involved but of all agencies that choose to ignore or abdicate their responsibilities.

[MoFire390 118]

It shouldn't matter that this was a volunteer agency. The management of a volunteer EMS agency has just as much responsibility to manage as does any other organization. We can't look the other way "because we're volunteers" nor should we elect to provide less supervision, training, and risk detection and mitigation because it comes at a cost. They didn't blink at spending 100K on the ambulance so they should be willing to spend 1K to protect that investment and their reputation if not the people they're tasked with protecting.

Another option is to simply require members to disclose any accidents, arrests, or tickets on a membership survey. Sure someone may lie but if they do and are caught it could be grounds for dismissal.

There are a lot of options but the bigger message here isn't the ambulance accident, it's the lack of management that allowed it to occur. This is strictly not a criticism of the VAC involved but of all agencies that choose to ignore or abdicate their responsibilities.

but doesnt that take away the whole VOLUNTEER experience??? i thought volunteering was to help the community you live in? your right chris we shouldnt "look the other way" we should take this as a learning experience and remember others experiences so that it doesnt happen to us. especially getting into an accident with a $100k ambulance. is that not why some agencies REQUIRE EVOC (cevo) for drivers now a days?? to learn "safe operation and response in an ambulance or fire truck? and part of the reason why some agencies have it that no member under the age of 21 is able to be a driver???

Edited September 7, 2010 by MoFire390

[grumpyff 1,159]

A lot of that, EVOC, drivers license checks, age requirements are put forward by insurance companies. It has nothing to do with being a volunteer. Some departments have been checking driver license for years. I know when I first started driver training in PLeasantville, I could not be approved as a driver until my record came back from Albany, (way back in 1993). If you are accident prone, or just unsafe why should you be entrusted to drive a several hundred thousand dollar vehicle often weighing several tons, paid or volunteer.

Believe me I have ridden with older guys with CDLs that scared the crap out of me, and I have ridden with 20 year olds that I could trust, especially when the stuff hit the fan. Some people just can not and should not be driving.

Edited September 7, 2010 by grumpyff

[dmc2007 17]

but doesnt that take away the whole VOLUNTEER experience??? i thought volunteering was to help the community you live in? your right chris we shouldnt "look the other way" we should take this as a learning experience and remember others experiences so that it doesnt happen to us. especially getting into an accident with a $100k ambulance. is that not why some agencies REQUIRE EVOC (cevo) for drivers now a days?? to learn "safe operation and response in an ambulance or fire truck? and part of the reason why some agencies have it that no member under the age of 21 is able to be a driver???

How does ensuring responsibility and applying appropriate risk management detract from the volunteer experience? Giving back to the community is great, but only if it can be done safely and efficiently. Someone who has demonstrated that they can't drive safely get in the way of that.

[ny10570 745]

how is an agency gonna know about a persons driving record? someone correct me if im wrong by the place were this incident took place is a VOLUNTEER agency. your gonna tell me that every agency should do driving record checks on ALL the members that drive?? are u crazy...thats just a straight up WASTE of money!!! ill tell u right now i've had accidents in my personal car 2 of which i totaled my car... you mean to tell me that the agency that i belong too shouldnt let me drive because of my PRIOR driving record??? honestly if there is a good driver training program out there its the EVOC class. people get in ACCIDENTS every day...THATS WHY THEY ARE CALLED ACCIDENTS!!!

do i think what this guy did was wrong? yes i do. and he should be held responsable for his actions because he knew he took the sleeping aid.

Absolutely there should be driving checks on every member. Someone runs into you while stopped at a light, absolutely you should not be held responsible. You have a couple of at fault accidents or tack on a few tickets in a short period of time and you absolutely should not be behind the wheel of an ambulance. These are large vehicles often near the weight capacity for the vehicles brakes and chassis with powerful engines. There are people in the back of that vehicle and the people in the streets around you that are dependent upon you ability to safely navigate that vehicle. You're driving record directly speaks to your ability to control yourself and your vehicle.

[50-65 205]

Absolutely there should be driving checks on every member. Someone runs into you while stopped at a light, absolutely you should not be held responsible. You have a couple of at fault accidents or tack on a few tickets in a short period of time and you absolutely should not be behind the wheel of an ambulance. These are large vehicles often near the weight capacity for the vehicles brakes and chassis with powerful engines. There are people in the back of that vehicle and the people in the streets around you that are dependent upon you ability to safely navigate that vehicle. You're driving record directly speaks to your ability to control yourself and your vehicle.

In our fire district, among other things, they participate in the LENS program. Drivers also have to be a minimum of 21 years old, have EVOC, and have apparatus specific training (pump ops, ladder ops, ladder placement, etc). Then, after a license check, they can begin supervised training. First in a parking lot where they begin to learn the blind spots, handling, equipment placement, etc. then on the road driving through various neighborhoods, traffic and road conditions. After training, a chief officer goes out with them, giving various tests. After he is satisfied, then they are added to the driver roster. We also do annual and random drug testing.

[ny10570 745]

Wow, the drug testing surprised me. How do you guys handle the random testing? Is there a provision for testing after accidents or for testing on an officers suspicions?

[mike4164 0]

I just stumbled on this post today. I have to inform you guys of some FACTS about the person involved in this incident. I will not mention his name as I know him personally and have worked with him at FDNY/EMS. He is certified in EVOC for several years. He supposedly took a sleepong pill,I don't know if thats true or not.He has had some problems in the past with FDNY/EMS and was arressted for things involving work at the FDNY/EMS. Why he was even allowed to still volunteer at MVAC is beyond me since his conviction on the incident in NYC should have had his EMT card revoked. As for training,NYS now requires you to have some sort of driver certification be it EVOC or some other emergency response driver training. It is now law in NYS to have drivers trained. If the driver is not certified with some sort of training the insurance company can not insure them under the new law. This law covers ALL emergency vehicles operated in NYS including fire apparatus, police vehicles or any other emergency vehicle.The respective agency is responsible to make sure their members are properly trained and certified and have to show proof to the insurance company prior to the member being approved to operate the vehicles. It doesn't get any clearer than that. With that being said, a CDL is not going to make a difference,only practice and experience with an experienced emergency vehicle operator will make the difference.I have seen too many new kids come to the job and think just because they have EVOC they can drive,well guess what?? They usually have an accident with the emergency vehicle within the first 6 months if not sooner. Practice and experience are the only way to learn,simple as that.