Personal Escape Rope Kits

[NoWestFF 21]

My department is giving serious consideration to equipping every interior firefighter with a personal escape rope kit and harness. The kit would include a 50' length of rope, an anchor carabiner, a second carabiner to attach to the harness and a descent device...all maintained in a small pouch that would sit on the harness. Each firefighter would be required to complete training in the use of the kit and "recertify" each year just as we require SCBA recertification.

We've investigated several kits marketed by various vendors and have evaluated four kits using the facilities at the Fire Training Center. We're working through our deployment plan and have a few questions.

Have any fire departments in the area, with the exception of FDNY, taken such action? If so, what are the details of your plan? Have you made any changes to your plan, your SOPs or the equipment issued based on experience? Who received the equipment? Was it mandatory for all interior firefighters? How did you handle interior firefighters who declined the training and equipment? What are your initial & ongoing training requirements?

Thanks for any insight into your department's approach or first-hand experience you may have.

[Remember585 815]

Our FD purchased "Bail-Out Bags" for all of our Interior members with Survival training. It includes a 30' 8mm rope and a carabiner. Extras were also purcahsed and will be given to new members and those that complete their training on them.

[Ladder44 73]

Toringtong FD has a "Bail out rope" on every SCBA pack. it is very handy and can save your one day.

Edited February 24, 2006 by Rytoast391

[Guest alsfirefighter]

The biggest thing I can recommend is try them out several times before you purchase anything. As a survival instructor I have seen the good the bad and the ugly when it has come to bailout ropes, bags and systems. I've seen the results from buying something without trying, empty bags strewn around after the training session with no ropes in them.

Couple of things to consider:

1. The techniques still taught work and work well. A simple body belay with the rope in your pocket, in a system integrated in the turnout gear (highly recommend, I have it and have used it often), or attached to your gear.

2. Having a anchor caribiner is still a good idea, however after teaching this many times, many instructors have found that by having a good size bight on your figure 8 that will go over the tool for an anchor works great, and limits the problem of the carabiner dumping and causing the tool (anchor) to dislodge potentially causing a fall and the tool landing on you. Still having the carabiner attached gives you and option if you do not have a tool and utilize a wall stud, substantial pipe or other anchor.

3. Flat nomex rope sucks, round is ok, but I have read that the flat kind fails often and faster.

4. One bag system out there looks great, sits in your pocket and has snaps, everytime I've seen it used it doesn't play out correctly. You also have to sit it in your pocket, so why not keep the rope there? The decent devices have some pro's and con's. For many of us its gonna come down to cost, and to be honest I'm quite comfortable with the skill I've known and taught. The system that FDNY is utilizing, I've seen and had it explained. It is bulky and sticks out a bit. Make sure you try everything out.

[ohbdow1 6]

The FDNY system will be shown at the next FDIC. For most of the FD'S operating outside of urban areas this escape system is probably not the one to buy. BUT, the one piece of the system that would be recommended to purchase is their anchor hook. This is a simple hook that will bight into any wall material and is easily attatched to the ropes most of us already carry. This hook has been tested in all building types and for our purposes for "Bread & Butter" single family dwellings were FF's are dying, is the best piece for us. The carabiner is difficult to use under fire conditions and while wearing gloves. The hook utilizes the "KISS" principle. Look into it for your own info.

[firemoose827 324]

We just use 35' of rope and a biner with the bail out method ALS mentioned; we just wrap the rope around our backs, hold it together in front of our body and controll descent with squeezing the ropes together. It works well, its fast, no system to put together and no excess equipment to carry. A little hot on the hands though!!! Even through your gloves.

[ny10570 745]

KISS will always win out when the sh!t hits the fan. Rope and a caribiner is simple and consistant.

[ohbdow1 6]

There is only one thing missing from the rope and biner.... a tool. With the hook (not a roof hook) you don't need it and if tied to your rope it is always there. It is a simple tool to have with you if God forbid you need it. It is really simple and easy to find some info or video on.

[ny10570 745]

There is only one thing missing from the rope and biner.... a tool.  With the hook (not a roof hook) you don't need it and if tied to your rope it is always there.  It is a simple tool to have with you if God forbid you need it.  It is really simple and easy to find some info or video on.

←

I'd definately like to check out the FDNY hook, but everything I've seen to date has been (in my opinion) too large or too dangerous. If you don't have a tool; radiators, heavy pipes, etc. What ever you can find. I've seen people use bathtubs, kick a hole through an interior wall to use a stud, even Romex cable(I still can't believe it held) as anchors.

[Guest]

fyi...while the FDNY hook is good because of the "KISS" factor as everyone has said...it is a bit heavy...if a lighter weight one is developed that may be the way to go

[ex-commish 490]

I am a survival instructor and I favor keeping the rope in my pocket with a biner as opposed to a rope bag. I keep it in my left thigh pocket and find it easily accesible.

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

[Guest]

I have a few thoughts on this subject.

#1 While it is important to have a bail out system, it is just as important to know when it is time to bail out. Or more importantly, how to keep your self from being in this situation all together. Bailing out should be the last resort! It all comes down to training.

#2 Choose a system that everyone is comfortable with. Although the best system may be to have a harness attachet to the gear at all times, how many times do we use our gear at non "structure fire " calls. for the most part, we wear the same gear at fires, mva's, brush fires, ems runs, ect. The harnesses add extra weight to the gear. I had a harness but I found that it was more of a hassle and I no longer use it. It was to much extra weight, it was just in the way if I was the driver/pump operator, and it was in the way on all the calls where I did not need it. Now, I just carry a 50' bail out rope w/ beaners and my knot is ALREADY TIED. As mentioned in a earlier reply, you can secure your rope and rap it around your body, hold in front of your body and use your hand to control your decent speed. The idea of having the rope bag on the scba harness sounds good to. Look at what is out there and try a bunch of things before you spend lots of money. Get something that everyone will be comfortable with.

#3 Once you buy the equipment, TRAIN with it. Having rope in your pocket is no good unless you are proficient with it. Practice with it at least once a month. You should be as good at bailing out as you are at operating a nozzle, Right?

Good luck and be Safe

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Truckee, if some that I have been around had to be as proficient at operating there rope as a nozzle, then I'm scared. Many people cannot tell you which way to turn a nozzle to go to straight stream on a fog nozzle. So I'm with you. Any new system you buy..you need to train with before you carry it.

[firecapt32 282]

just read where FDNY made a rescue in Brooklyn useing the new rope system. It will beinteresting to hear form the rescue company as to how things really went.

[Guest tfd193]

they did not use the new rope system, the papers just F-ed up as usual. They used the regular roof rope.

[Guest JQP442]

Regardless of what kind of bail out rope you go with, in my opinion, the most important thing is TRAINING. You can give people the best tools in the world, but if they dont know how to use them, they are useless. There are many good systems out there, you have to decide what works best for your dept and members. What works good for me and my dept may not work so well for you. remember that just because FDNY is using something doesnt mean that its the best thing in the world as some people seem to think. You have to get what works for you.

[HFD23 37]

I deffinatly agree that training is the most important part of what ever bail out system you use, and i think that trying out several systems is also necessary, i used to carry the good old 35 foot rope with a biner which when u take away the knots and safety ou probably around 30feet, i personally now carry 50ft with 2 steel biners and a mini 8 plate. the extra 20 feet doens;t take up much more room it isn;t very heavey, it is still smaller then the new FDNY system which i would liek to play around with at some point and lastly it leaves the extra rope if needed i rahter have extra then come up short for some reason. also i know the purpose is to get out of harms way be it even just dropping down a floor or 2, but you never know.

Bottom line is this is your life line test it and train with it before puttin it in your gear or purchasing them in any sort of numbers what works for FDNY or another dept may not work for you and yours... so look around..

[STAT213 332]

One thing my department added to the puzzle was a separate pocket just above the ankle for a section of bailout line/webbing. Works pretty well and is easy to reach as you are crawling around on your belly.

[truckie45 1]

The City Of Peekskill Fire Fighters carry 40' of round rescue rope and a D biners in the back part of our jackets, all you have to do is open the flap and pull out the rope. I recommend pulling all the rope out first to make sure there are no knots first. I am thinking about adding a fiqure 8 to my system.

Edited March 25, 2006 by truckie45

[Guest car2267]

our dept purchased the bail out bags, and issues them to all firefighters that have completed the firefighter survival class, as well as the fast team class. So far there have been mixed reactionms about the weight and the decrease in pocket space for carrying tools. Personally I dont have a problem with carrying the bag, I have it connected to my airpack via industrial strength velcro, which is more strong and rigid than store bought kind. If needed I can tear the bag off of the airpack harness and deploy it

[Guest]

Most members in my department have a 35 ft rope. Only FAST team members have harnesses, and a few of us have personal ropes, as opposed to the rope issued by our department. I have a kevlar rope and quick-loc carbiner. the rope is very lightweight and almost burn proof. I am not part of the FAST team, however, and was forced to purchase my own harness. Before buying one, i used a spare piece of webbing to make a swiss seat and kept that on my gear at all times.

[348 4]

KISS cannot be overstated. we are talking about conditions were guys are bailing head first out windows regardless of the floor they are operating on. we can debate why we are still in conditions like this but that is for another topic. the theory of swiss seats, and wrapping webbing around radiators or furniture is not practical. sticking a hook in a wall or sill on your way out a window is quick, relatively safe, and maintains you low in the window. just my two cents