efdcapt115

EVERY city pays for alcohol. I can't think of a single city or any one of it's agency's that doesn't have some formal function or gathering during that year and booze is included on the bill. Do you think that the New York City Hall annual Holiday Party is dry? Come on now. I remember when I still belonged to a volunteer company. Included in EVERY years budget was money for the annual inspection. This event included a cocktail hour and formal reception at a fairly expensive hall. Booze was served, many invited and the municipality covered the bill.
What's wrong with all of these examples? NOTHING. There is nothing wrong with a government paying for business/social events where alcohol is on the menu and legally served to attendees. Adults can drink, so says the 21th amendment. If the contract states that a collation should be paid for by the city, it's only natural to expect it to include the serving of alcohol. This article is a slanted disgrace.
In the matter of non-contractual functions or (god forbid) LODD functions, I would assume that all municipalities are indeed cutting back on non-essential functions. It would only be prudent in these economic times.

I KNEW this was going to happen here, that members were going to "take the bait" that the City of Buffalo threw out to see where it would stick. Well if you bit into this ALCOHOL arguement, you've been BUFFALOED.
First, it is disgraceful that news organizations do not even do the DUE DLIGENCE to find out what happens after a LODD funeral; it's called a COLLATION, not a "reception", not a "party", nothing other than a collation, which is a religious term meaning "light meal." The term reception is reserved for happy occassions; like a wedding reception.
THOUSANDS of firefighters, career and volunteer alike, some from as far away as Australia attended two LODD funerals. The Union did the right thing in providing those members with a Collation, where brother firefighters, law enforcement, ems, all came together to commiserate, after standing at attention for TWO LODD funerals.
Ever been to a LODD funeral? Ever stand at attention for three or four hours? Then imagine this day, and doing it TWICE. Think you might want a bite and a brew, drink, soda, coffee afterward? Of course you would, so let's stop being ridiculous about this issue.
This is a simple case of a CONTRACT VIOLATION. The union has an ironclad, protected by LAW agreement with the C.O.B. which states, the city will pay the union $12,500 for a LODD funeral for expenses incured. Period. It doesn't say, "well, we'll pay for this line item or that line item", it says will pay for expenses. The City has violated the contract, the union has probably grieved the issue, this will be mediated, arbitrated, wind up in court, and the city will LOSE...and THEN PAY.
There are difficult and protracted contract negotiations between the city and the union right now. The firefighters and cops have marched on city hall, and many believe bringing ALCOHOL into the disscusion was merely an attempt to smear the union.
Let's please not get into who drinks what and where with who's 2% money or fundraising, etc. If you engage in that, you have been Buffaloed in this case.
No on-duty members imbibe at colations, period. The insinuation is thrown out to see where it will stick, and it landed right here on emtbravo, and you guys are missing the issue of a contract violation, and making judgements that you should not be making; whether "taxpayer's money" should be used for alcohol is a bogus disscusion. Corruption in gov't is rampant. Governors spend millions of dollars decorating their offices. Legislators are bought by lobbyists. Our tax money by the billions has been thrown at large corporations, who in turn have handed out RECORD BONUSES to their incompetent CEOs. YOUR money at work fellas. Where is the uproar about that?
Let us remember what we are talking about here, and if some locals like INIT's pay for their own expenses for an LODD funeral, well they obviously don't have a LODD funeral expenses line in THEIR contract, or they'd be getting reimbursed for it.
http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/84990367.html?video=YHI&t=a

I KNEW this was going to happen here, that members were going to "take the bait" that the City of Buffalo threw out to see where it would stick. Well if you bit into this ALCOHOL arguement, you've been BUFFALOED.
First, it is disgraceful that news organizations do not even do the DUE DLIGENCE to find out what happens after a LODD funeral; it's called a COLLATION, not a "reception", not a "party", nothing other than a collation, which is a religious term meaning "light meal." The term reception is reserved for happy occassions; like a wedding reception.
THOUSANDS of firefighters, career and volunteer alike, some from as far away as Australia attended two LODD funerals. The Union did the right thing in providing those members with a Collation, where brother firefighters, law enforcement, ems, all came together to commiserate, after standing at attention for TWO LODD funerals.
Ever been to a LODD funeral? Ever stand at attention for three or four hours? Then imagine this day, and doing it TWICE. Think you might want a bite and a brew, drink, soda, coffee afterward? Of course you would, so let's stop being ridiculous about this issue.
This is a simple case of a CONTRACT VIOLATION. The union has an ironclad, protected by LAW agreement with the C.O.B. which states, the city will pay the union $12,500 for a LODD funeral for expenses incured. Period. It doesn't say, "well, we'll pay for this line item or that line item", it says will pay for expenses. The City has violated the contract, the union has probably grieved the issue, this will be mediated, arbitrated, wind up in court, and the city will LOSE...and THEN PAY.
There are difficult and protracted contract negotiations between the city and the union right now. The firefighters and cops have marched on city hall, and many believe bringing ALCOHOL into the disscusion was merely an attempt to smear the union.
Let's please not get into who drinks what and where with who's 2% money or fundraising, etc. If you engage in that, you have been Buffaloed in this case.
No on-duty members imbibe at colations, period. The insinuation is thrown out to see where it will stick, and it landed right here on emtbravo, and you guys are missing the issue of a contract violation, and making judgements that you should not be making; whether "taxpayer's money" should be used for alcohol is a bogus disscusion. Corruption in gov't is rampant. Governors spend millions of dollars decorating their offices. Legislators are bought by lobbyists. Our tax money by the billions has been thrown at large corporations, who in turn have handed out RECORD BONUSES to their incompetent CEOs. YOUR money at work fellas. Where is the uproar about that?
Let us remember what we are talking about here, and if some locals like INIT's pay for their own expenses for an LODD funeral, well they obviously don't have a LODD funeral expenses line in THEIR contract, or they'd be getting reimbursed for it.
http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/84990367.html?video=YHI&t=a

I KNEW this was going to happen here, that members were going to "take the bait" that the City of Buffalo threw out to see where it would stick. Well if you bit into this ALCOHOL arguement, you've been BUFFALOED.
First, it is disgraceful that news organizations do not even do the DUE DLIGENCE to find out what happens after a LODD funeral; it's called a COLLATION, not a "reception", not a "party", nothing other than a collation, which is a religious term meaning "light meal." The term reception is reserved for happy occassions; like a wedding reception.
THOUSANDS of firefighters, career and volunteer alike, some from as far away as Australia attended two LODD funerals. The Union did the right thing in providing those members with a Collation, where brother firefighters, law enforcement, ems, all came together to commiserate, after standing at attention for TWO LODD funerals.
Ever been to a LODD funeral? Ever stand at attention for three or four hours? Then imagine this day, and doing it TWICE. Think you might want a bite and a brew, drink, soda, coffee afterward? Of course you would, so let's stop being ridiculous about this issue.
This is a simple case of a CONTRACT VIOLATION. The union has an ironclad, protected by LAW agreement with the C.O.B. which states, the city will pay the union $12,500 for a LODD funeral for expenses incured. Period. It doesn't say, "well, we'll pay for this line item or that line item", it says will pay for expenses. The City has violated the contract, the union has probably grieved the issue, this will be mediated, arbitrated, wind up in court, and the city will LOSE...and THEN PAY.
There are difficult and protracted contract negotiations between the city and the union right now. The firefighters and cops have marched on city hall, and many believe bringing ALCOHOL into the disscusion was merely an attempt to smear the union.
Let's please not get into who drinks what and where with who's 2% money or fundraising, etc. If you engage in that, you have been Buffaloed in this case.
No on-duty members imbibe at colations, period. The insinuation is thrown out to see where it will stick, and it landed right here on emtbravo, and you guys are missing the issue of a contract violation, and making judgements that you should not be making; whether "taxpayer's money" should be used for alcohol is a bogus disscusion. Corruption in gov't is rampant. Governors spend millions of dollars decorating their offices. Legislators are bought by lobbyists. Our tax money by the billions has been thrown at large corporations, who in turn have handed out RECORD BONUSES to their incompetent CEOs. YOUR money at work fellas. Where is the uproar about that?
Let us remember what we are talking about here, and if some locals like INIT's pay for their own expenses for an LODD funeral, well they obviously don't have a LODD funeral expenses line in THEIR contract, or they'd be getting reimbursed for it.
http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/84990367.html?video=YHI&t=a

Are you rubbing it in?

I KNEW this was going to happen here, that members were going to "take the bait" that the City of Buffalo threw out to see where it would stick. Well if you bit into this ALCOHOL arguement, you've been BUFFALOED.
First, it is disgraceful that news organizations do not even do the DUE DLIGENCE to find out what happens after a LODD funeral; it's called a COLLATION, not a "reception", not a "party", nothing other than a collation, which is a religious term meaning "light meal." The term reception is reserved for happy occassions; like a wedding reception.
THOUSANDS of firefighters, career and volunteer alike, some from as far away as Australia attended two LODD funerals. The Union did the right thing in providing those members with a Collation, where brother firefighters, law enforcement, ems, all came together to commiserate, after standing at attention for TWO LODD funerals.
Ever been to a LODD funeral? Ever stand at attention for three or four hours? Then imagine this day, and doing it TWICE. Think you might want a bite and a brew, drink, soda, coffee afterward? Of course you would, so let's stop being ridiculous about this issue.
This is a simple case of a CONTRACT VIOLATION. The union has an ironclad, protected by LAW agreement with the C.O.B. which states, the city will pay the union $12,500 for a LODD funeral for expenses incured. Period. It doesn't say, "well, we'll pay for this line item or that line item", it says will pay for expenses. The City has violated the contract, the union has probably grieved the issue, this will be mediated, arbitrated, wind up in court, and the city will LOSE...and THEN PAY.
There are difficult and protracted contract negotiations between the city and the union right now. The firefighters and cops have marched on city hall, and many believe bringing ALCOHOL into the disscusion was merely an attempt to smear the union.
Let's please not get into who drinks what and where with who's 2% money or fundraising, etc. If you engage in that, you have been Buffaloed in this case.
No on-duty members imbibe at colations, period. The insinuation is thrown out to see where it will stick, and it landed right here on emtbravo, and you guys are missing the issue of a contract violation, and making judgements that you should not be making; whether "taxpayer's money" should be used for alcohol is a bogus disscusion. Corruption in gov't is rampant. Governors spend millions of dollars decorating their offices. Legislators are bought by lobbyists. Our tax money by the billions has been thrown at large corporations, who in turn have handed out RECORD BONUSES to their incompetent CEOs. YOUR money at work fellas. Where is the uproar about that?
Let us remember what we are talking about here, and if some locals like INIT's pay for their own expenses for an LODD funeral, well they obviously don't have a LODD funeral expenses line in THEIR contract, or they'd be getting reimbursed for it.
http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/84990367.html?video=YHI&t=a

I KNEW this was going to happen here, that members were going to "take the bait" that the City of Buffalo threw out to see where it would stick. Well if you bit into this ALCOHOL arguement, you've been BUFFALOED.
First, it is disgraceful that news organizations do not even do the DUE DLIGENCE to find out what happens after a LODD funeral; it's called a COLLATION, not a "reception", not a "party", nothing other than a collation, which is a religious term meaning "light meal." The term reception is reserved for happy occassions; like a wedding reception.
THOUSANDS of firefighters, career and volunteer alike, some from as far away as Australia attended two LODD funerals. The Union did the right thing in providing those members with a Collation, where brother firefighters, law enforcement, ems, all came together to commiserate, after standing at attention for TWO LODD funerals.
Ever been to a LODD funeral? Ever stand at attention for three or four hours? Then imagine this day, and doing it TWICE. Think you might want a bite and a brew, drink, soda, coffee afterward? Of course you would, so let's stop being ridiculous about this issue.
This is a simple case of a CONTRACT VIOLATION. The union has an ironclad, protected by LAW agreement with the C.O.B. which states, the city will pay the union $12,500 for a LODD funeral for expenses incured. Period. It doesn't say, "well, we'll pay for this line item or that line item", it says will pay for expenses. The City has violated the contract, the union has probably grieved the issue, this will be mediated, arbitrated, wind up in court, and the city will LOSE...and THEN PAY.
There are difficult and protracted contract negotiations between the city and the union right now. The firefighters and cops have marched on city hall, and many believe bringing ALCOHOL into the disscusion was merely an attempt to smear the union.
Let's please not get into who drinks what and where with who's 2% money or fundraising, etc. If you engage in that, you have been Buffaloed in this case.
No on-duty members imbibe at colations, period. The insinuation is thrown out to see where it will stick, and it landed right here on emtbravo, and you guys are missing the issue of a contract violation, and making judgements that you should not be making; whether "taxpayer's money" should be used for alcohol is a bogus disscusion. Corruption in gov't is rampant. Governors spend millions of dollars decorating their offices. Legislators are bought by lobbyists. Our tax money by the billions has been thrown at large corporations, who in turn have handed out RECORD BONUSES to their incompetent CEOs. YOUR money at work fellas. Where is the uproar about that?
Let us remember what we are talking about here, and if some locals like INIT's pay for their own expenses for an LODD funeral, well they obviously don't have a LODD funeral expenses line in THEIR contract, or they'd be getting reimbursed for it.
http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/84990367.html?video=YHI&t=a

I KNEW this was going to happen here, that members were going to "take the bait" that the City of Buffalo threw out to see where it would stick. Well if you bit into this ALCOHOL arguement, you've been BUFFALOED.
First, it is disgraceful that news organizations do not even do the DUE DLIGENCE to find out what happens after a LODD funeral; it's called a COLLATION, not a "reception", not a "party", nothing other than a collation, which is a religious term meaning "light meal." The term reception is reserved for happy occassions; like a wedding reception.
THOUSANDS of firefighters, career and volunteer alike, some from as far away as Australia attended two LODD funerals. The Union did the right thing in providing those members with a Collation, where brother firefighters, law enforcement, ems, all came together to commiserate, after standing at attention for TWO LODD funerals.
Ever been to a LODD funeral? Ever stand at attention for three or four hours? Then imagine this day, and doing it TWICE. Think you might want a bite and a brew, drink, soda, coffee afterward? Of course you would, so let's stop being ridiculous about this issue.
This is a simple case of a CONTRACT VIOLATION. The union has an ironclad, protected by LAW agreement with the C.O.B. which states, the city will pay the union $12,500 for a LODD funeral for expenses incured. Period. It doesn't say, "well, we'll pay for this line item or that line item", it says will pay for expenses. The City has violated the contract, the union has probably grieved the issue, this will be mediated, arbitrated, wind up in court, and the city will LOSE...and THEN PAY.
There are difficult and protracted contract negotiations between the city and the union right now. The firefighters and cops have marched on city hall, and many believe bringing ALCOHOL into the disscusion was merely an attempt to smear the union.
Let's please not get into who drinks what and where with who's 2% money or fundraising, etc. If you engage in that, you have been Buffaloed in this case.
No on-duty members imbibe at colations, period. The insinuation is thrown out to see where it will stick, and it landed right here on emtbravo, and you guys are missing the issue of a contract violation, and making judgements that you should not be making; whether "taxpayer's money" should be used for alcohol is a bogus disscusion. Corruption in gov't is rampant. Governors spend millions of dollars decorating their offices. Legislators are bought by lobbyists. Our tax money by the billions has been thrown at large corporations, who in turn have handed out RECORD BONUSES to their incompetent CEOs. YOUR money at work fellas. Where is the uproar about that?
Let us remember what we are talking about here, and if some locals like INIT's pay for their own expenses for an LODD funeral, well they obviously don't have a LODD funeral expenses line in THEIR contract, or they'd be getting reimbursed for it.
http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/84990367.html?video=YHI&t=a

Well said! I have two gripes with this story. One, I can't believe a municipality would nickel and dime the deaths of two employees, especially firefighters killed in the Line of Duty.
Secondly, and I am only asking a question and not stirring a pot, do unions, such as IAFF Locals, have fund raising events to set aside funds for things like this? Don't a lot of IAFF locals have benevolents or something so they can take care of their own when something happens? If so, wouldn't this be a * issue?
Honestly, I am annoyed and sickened at the fact that expense is being discussed following two deaths. It doesn't matter who they were, what they did or how they died. What's wrong with society that everything has a price tag now? What ever happening to doing the right thing?

Our paychecks are funded through taxation. So, therefore, are you saying that we should not be able to spend any of our salaries on alcohol?
This is monies which the BFD union feels were owed to them contractually to be spent as they see fit for funeral expenses. Alcohol being served at a funeral reception is a normal, legitimate expense.
There were many thousands of mourners in Buffalo for two funerals and consuming alcohol off duty at a funeral is a perfectly legal, acceptable thing to do. Considering the numbers of attendees I don't think either $7,600, as the union claims, or $11,000, as the City claims, is a lot of money to spend on booze. It was not a frat party, however, this whole matter is obviously a thinly veiled attempt for the Buffalo City Administration to make it look like just that in order to discredit the union.
Some on this site are attempting to take that ball and run with it for their own reasons...

I've always wondered...when I see the apparatus parked out in front of the food store where I live and the volunteer firefighters are collecting donations and selling raffles, does any of that money go toward parties or functions / conventions where alcohol is served? What about the letter I receive in the mail asking for donations? Is any of that money used to purchase alcohol? What about the 2% monies? Is any of that money used to purchase alcohol? Keep in mind now, that if any of that money was used to purchase alcohol I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with it so long as the people who contributed the money were aware of where it was going and they are not led to believe, as most people are, that is going toward firefighting equipment.
At least in Buffalo they were up front about it. Serving and consuming alcohol is perfectly legal, as long as those doing so are of age and do not work or drive while impaired. Most of us would choose to serve alcohol to those people who come to a get together after a funeral for one of our family members. That is what the Buffalo Fire Department did- they offered food and drink to those who came to mourn their brothers. They have apparently interpreted that expense to be part of what should be covered as funeral expenses as per their contract. They obviously feel that they have nothing to be ashamed of and neither do I.

Alot of info here that can help, I always look at the Hudson River as I go south into NYC on the train, another resource that will be needed is marine units. If you look at the tracks on the Hudson line they are right on the shoreline of the river. Get it? HUDSON LINE lol. Access to many parts of the tracks along the river is simply not there. If there is a mishap along the River in many isolated spots getting to the scene can be another story in its self. Resources- local FD/PD. Coast Guard, CG Aux (Launch 5). Water rescues may be needed. Winter Ops may be hampered because of Ice on the River. This could be a nightmare for all involved. Not too long ago there was a derailment in stony point, not a passenger train either. Many people always complain about Indian Point but if they realized what goes up n down the tracks on the west shore they might have more concerns. Alot of times the wind is out of the NW. A Haz MAT leak from one of the cargo trains on the West Shore could certainly be a disaster for us east siders. The derailment in Stony Point that morning did not have any leaks but I do believe chemical cars were involved. Just another incident to plan for! Be safe .

We need to talk...

There was a MCI drill at the N White Plains yard about 5 years ago. It was set up by my favorite Metro North Chief.

The biggest help that any agency can do for itself is to pre-plan for the worst in their area. That includes identifying ahead of time staging areas, medivac landing spots and access and egress routes. When the s--t hits the fan you are not going to have the time to look for these areas quickly. Ensuring that an officer knows how to be a staging officer is important also. It is more than a parking lot attendant. Making sure that vehicle operators stay with vehicles, that keys to all sidelined vehicles are secured so they can be moved if need be. On a large incident a staging officer might actually need a staff to get the job done. Remember staging is another division. Edfcapt115 you are 100% correct Emergency Management is a support staff operation meant to decompress the ancillary work load of the IC and his staff by help coordinate inter-agency operations and resource procurement. They should be cross trained enough to know how to assist each facet of the operation.

I could not help but chime in. After 7 years of being involved in all the Subway Drills and handling the Fire end of things, I had to comment. From my experience, go to the Drills and treat it as it is the real deal. You are going to have to work with all of the agencies involved, and if you have never had the pleasure, it is not going to be easy. A UNIFIED command post has to be to set up from the get go. And those IC's have to stay there. Representatives from each agency have to be there. Oh, and they probably are not going to be there as fast as you like, so you better have some contact numbers. Pre-plan information is really going to come into play here, hopefully someone has that information, especially if you are underground. If not, things are looking up for you. Hopefully, besides getting traction power off, train traffic stopped, and some of the immediate hazards identified, you better hope its not a rush hour train packed with passengers. You will need a calculator at this point to calculate how many passengers are on each train car then times that by how many train cars you have. Oh, and some train cars are longer than others and therefore can hold more passengers. But you have attended the Drills and already have been able to identify what kind of train cars you are dealing with. All the agencies share the same frequencies and can immediately go to those channels, right? You have tried out your radios in different areas to make sure they are in range, correct? There are going to be dead spots and hopefully you have learned to relay radio to radio, and get the information back to the Unified command post. Are you sure you are only dealing with the train involved? Or are there multiple trains involved. An incident I had a few years ago involved 3 trains. One agency was operating at one train, another on an additional train, and a third that had to reverse itself to get away from the fire. One agency had no idea that there were other trains involved. Hundreds of people were injured, thankfully not to seriously. This incident was outdoors AND underground. Enough with the war stories.... The acts of terrorism has crossed your mind and you have thought about primary and secondary devices, chemical and biological devices, right? You have a MAJOR MCI plan, you ARE going to need it. Its going to be a very hectic incident, hopefully you and your other departments have been working together as well as the other agencies and have all learned to place nice in the sandbox. I have been to every major incident down here for the last several years and have had the fortune to work with representatives from so many agencies. Utilize them and work together with them now, because when it happens, there is no time to work the kinks out.
Just my few cents worth. Be Safe and don't be afraid to reach out to Spanky, Gerardi, or myself.

Great thread and some very good comments by all. One thing we should all keep in mind is to determine the cause of the incident before rushing right in here.
Remember in our area (Metro NYC) this may not be a human caused error or just faulty equipment. It is very possible that a scene like this could be the result of a terroristic act. When this happens we have have to approach the scene with assistance from law enforcement also. Bomb Squads, canine units and others must perform physical searches and mitigate in order to make sure no secondary devices are present.
In these types of incidents it is very possible that more than one device may be involved on the same train. I would cautiously recommend that prior to establishing a Command Post, Triage and Staging areas that thought be given to safety from secondary devices. MTA PD, Westchester County DPS and others have plenty of resources to help perform these sweeps. Usually this only takes a few minutes and we train for these situations all the time.
Another thing to keep in mind is that history has shown that if this is happening in one jurisdiction, it is very probable that there will be other events in the region that may occurr simutaneously . It is very important to step back and look at the whole dynamic picture before committing every single resource we have to one location.
IC is so important in a scene like this. Only by using it everday in everything we do will we make this scene work well.
MNR usually holds one mass casualty drill a year in the northern suburbs and I highly recommend that all attend even if only as an observer.
Just my two cents and a great thread for all of us to keep discussing.

I'd have to say that we're terribly prepared for a train wreck in Belgium, geez, just think of the response time!
Seriously now, this is a great thread because so many areas have rail lines running through them. efdcapt115 hits on many of the key points so I'll just expand on a couple of them.
The management of the incident really needs to be organized, not just by assigning an IC and staging area manager but by fully staffing the planning and logistics sections because this incident is not going away anytime soon. Planning to organize the resource requirements and keep things on track, logistics because someone has to get all the stuff that efdcapt identified as being required.
I would argue strongly against the "y'all come" request for everyone to respond. Because they will and that will overwhelm the management and quickly become counterproductive. Every department should have a preplan for the credible worst case scenario in their community; it shouldn't be up to the overwhelmed IC to figure out what is needed on the fly. If you have a commuter rail line running through your response area there should be standing run cards that can quickly and efficinently be activated, just as is done for multiple fire alarms.
An assumption seems to be made that this is in an accessible area but if you look at much of the Metro North system, the line runs through some pretty remote (by metro NY area standards) areas. How will you get the lights and trucks and equipment to the scene if it isn't roadside?
Triage needs to happen as quickly as possible and ambulatory victims need to be escorted to an area of safety for further examination and treatment. Provisions for the evacuation of non-ambulatory victims also needs to be addressed.
Credentialing of responders and a bona fide accountability system need to be established and perimeters maintained to limit access to the scene - even by those in turnouts or with badges, stars, bars, or blue t-shirts.
Start working with Metro North or the responsible party to insure that all those stranded are being taken care of. Are there other trains stuck between stations? Are buses being mobilized to ferry them around the crash scene.
Food, water, rehab for the responders on scene (another reason to only call what's requested or you'll wind up with nothing but empty pizza boxes and orange soda left when the front line troops finally get a break).
Information to the public to allay anxiety and answer questions about loved ones. Hundreds of thousands of people ride the trains, that's a lot of phone calls to 911 trying to figure out who was on the train in question.
Alright, who's next?

Low pressure airbags should work for stabilization, just like righting a tractor trailer. Because you have a railroad car version of pick up sticks, I would not try to right cars, just apply a gentle touch for stabilization, do your work search,rescue,extricate etc. and move on to the next.
SPANKY will take care of all the disentanglement afterward. I would like to give 1 vote to Spanky just because he was recognized bt the Capt. Maybe a forum administrator could make this happen. What do say efdcapt115, wanna give a vote to Spanky too?

Good morning Mike,
I'd call for Spanky if it was Metro North. Power shut-down, all tracks. Total rail traffic stoppage. Call for everybody, activate WSOTF, have Control notify every agency that they have a phone number for.
Mass EMS mobilization, and hospitals, trauma-center notification. Control is going to be very busy. Call for some air-med transport and establish a triage and landing zone in an open area somewhere nearby; plan for an EMS ferry system for multi-victims to the triage site, get that Command Board set up and get all the agency heads together there.
You're going to need rail-mounted cranes for stabilization, haevy duty air-bag system for some temp-stabilization, all portable stabilization systems available to the scene, maybe some tractor-trailer sized wreckers to spin out some cable and get a grip on something, even calling a few light duty Holmes wreckers might help.
Very important to establish NIMS ICS, especially get a staging officer out there to organize all the help coming in, I'd assign a firefighter or LT immediately, no sense in blocking up the area we might need road access to the site. How about a drop off point as close to the scene as possible, where rigs can roll up and stage equipment, then roll out to a parking area?
Depending on the time, you might need some heavy lighting systems, plus the generator-lights that we carried, portable 1000 watt lights.
Get the hydraulic rescue tools (you're going to need at least 4-6 systems maybe more?) out to the site. Ground ladders, Back-boards, stretchers, EMS equipment, lines stretched. Tread VERY carefully. Make entry into the cars in a stable area, and work your way forward, after evacuation of the able bodied. Then get ready for some serious PTSD scenes, some very dangerous and strenuous work lay ahead.
Then my superior officer would show up and change everything

Good morning Mike,
I'd call for Spanky if it was Metro North. Power shut-down, all tracks. Total rail traffic stoppage. Call for everybody, activate WSOTF, have Control notify every agency that they have a phone number for.
Mass EMS mobilization, and hospitals, trauma-center notification. Control is going to be very busy. Call for some air-med transport and establish a triage and landing zone in an open area somewhere nearby; plan for an EMS ferry system for multi-victims to the triage site, get that Command Board set up and get all the agency heads together there.
You're going to need rail-mounted cranes for stabilization, haevy duty air-bag system for some temp-stabilization, all portable stabilization systems available to the scene, maybe some tractor-trailer sized wreckers to spin out some cable and get a grip on something, even calling a few light duty Holmes wreckers might help.
Very important to establish NIMS ICS, especially get a staging officer out there to organize all the help coming in, I'd assign a firefighter or LT immediately, no sense in blocking up the area we might need road access to the site. How about a drop off point as close to the scene as possible, where rigs can roll up and stage equipment, then roll out to a parking area?
Depending on the time, you might need some heavy lighting systems, plus the generator-lights that we carried, portable 1000 watt lights.
Get the hydraulic rescue tools (you're going to need at least 4-6 systems maybe more?) out to the site. Ground ladders, Back-boards, stretchers, EMS equipment, lines stretched. Tread VERY carefully. Make entry into the cars in a stable area, and work your way forward, after evacuation of the able bodied. Then get ready for some serious PTSD scenes, some very dangerous and strenuous work lay ahead.
Then my superior officer would show up and change everything

Of special interest, like you, I don't know Chief Flynn, but I sure think I would have liked to work for him.
Are you sure about that?

Thank you. I was going to just let this float off the board, what with this crazy day and the "big statement" this pilot had to make about his problems with the gov't.
Anyway, since I have this shared moment in the "spotlight" with a suicidal bass player (ironic if you look at my photo holding a guitar for Chr*st sake, but that's how it goes right?)
I want to talk a bit about the members you mentioned here, all of the members here are included in this sort of critique if you will, but I'm just going to wing it, and do the best I can with it.
First, there's Seth. Here he is today, in the heart of the madness in the country for today, just like he mentioned being in NY for 9/11. Can't the big stuff just leave the guy alone?
Seriously though, I'm here posting on a website that he created, and too often we take him for granted and some are critical because he shows his raw emotion at times. Seth, we know you've been through some tough sh*t in yor day, and you bounced back and gave us all a place to spend our time and share our thoughts. So thank you brother.
I'm no shill but come on guys, this site is growing in popularity and activitiy, and professionalism, and technical advancement. You think this is all a freebee? Some of y'all need to man up and help the guy out with some finances.....kay 'nuff said.
Chris192, flyin over all of us, keepin an eye and keepin it real. Stay safe up there bro.
Then we get to Chief Raftery. Why first amongst the posters? Cause the man earned it, that's why. Deputy Chief, college degree in fire science, published in fire engineering, one of the wittiest b@st@rds to ever post here. I'm proud to say he's a legacy of the Eastchester fire Dept, his dad worked there, I know cause I looked at his picture often in our headquarters. And here he comes on this board, modestly at first, then blasting us with that witt and wisdom he has been famous for his whole career. Thank you chief, for continuing your service, even now. And you're right, you cant get a good loaf of bread south of Philly.
Captain Nechis. Where does one start. I mean I'm old school, even though I'm still technically young. Then I meet Barry some years ago. And he starts going on about SEMO and FEMA and who the heck, and what the h*ll, and I'm like "this guy eats fire department". I'm telling you, now with this consolidation study out; you see who was involved big time right? Captain Nechis knows more in his sleep then I ever knew about the fire service. He even recerted my cpr, thanks Cap.
Chief Flynn. I never met you sir, but I have to say if you were my boss you'd have my respect. I know alot of the volunteer members here get crawly skin when you bring things up. You do stir the pot and post provocative questions. Your last name should be Johnson cause you invented the QTIP. I have NEVER met a Yonkers firefighter who didn't have a very large heart inside that gruffness. Truly a great bunch of gentlemen, from Chief Fitz to Batt 2 (I met Dennis smith once and invited Batt 2 to come, but he dissed it, haha too bad I got his autograph Kieron!) to YFD910 MY BROTHER, YFD610 who has shut up ever since chief flynn told him too (good job probie lol) love ya.
16fire5, M'Ave, our brothers from NYCEMS, it's truly an honor to have FDNY members particpate in this forum imho. You are a great job, the greatest job, lucky b@stards, stay safe all of you.
The volunterer members I communicate with in private and discuss training and fireground; gentlemen. Thank you for the respect, it comes right back at ya.
ALSfirefighter (BNechis blood relative, he just don't know it) dude, 3,000+ posts? How are dem fingers holdin up?
Chr*st, we even got a Canadian comin' down here with his "I pay for my own meals" thing goin' on, his extremely proud Class A photo. You GOTTA love that guy! Welcome Nova Scotia, the most beautiful Province. how's that medals count goin' for y'all? (just kiddin bro).
A guy from England named after 10 house. I seen them guys at the funerals. Very cool. Wish I had a chance to get England and check out Big Ben and Parliament, and then hit the pubs for a straight 24.....
All y'all. I don't wanta wind it out too far here. It's cool that I got 100 posts, but truly, if you want to look for the knowledge on this board, it's all of you combined. I'm just a knucklehead (ask ANYBODY from my job), it's good to be alive, f*** flyin a plane into a building it ain't that bad.
And the lurkers out there, chiefhac and elvis, two guys that eat fire department and had the most amazing careers, if you guys ever start posting, the whole game is gonna change here.
~Firematically,
Captain George Glover (ret)
EFD

Thank you. I was going to just let this float off the board, what with this crazy day and the "big statement" this pilot had to make about his problems with the gov't.
Anyway, since I have this shared moment in the "spotlight" with a suicidal bass player (ironic if you look at my photo holding a guitar for Chr*st sake, but that's how it goes right?)
I want to talk a bit about the members you mentioned here, all of the members here are included in this sort of critique if you will, but I'm just going to wing it, and do the best I can with it.
First, there's Seth. Here he is today, in the heart of the madness in the country for today, just like he mentioned being in NY for 9/11. Can't the big stuff just leave the guy alone?
Seriously though, I'm here posting on a website that he created, and too often we take him for granted and some are critical because he shows his raw emotion at times. Seth, we know you've been through some tough sh*t in yor day, and you bounced back and gave us all a place to spend our time and share our thoughts. So thank you brother.
I'm no shill but come on guys, this site is growing in popularity and activitiy, and professionalism, and technical advancement. You think this is all a freebee? Some of y'all need to man up and help the guy out with some finances.....kay 'nuff said.
Chris192, flyin over all of us, keepin an eye and keepin it real. Stay safe up there bro.
Then we get to Chief Raftery. Why first amongst the posters? Cause the man earned it, that's why. Deputy Chief, college degree in fire science, published in fire engineering, one of the wittiest b@st@rds to ever post here. I'm proud to say he's a legacy of the Eastchester fire Dept, his dad worked there, I know cause I looked at his picture often in our headquarters. And here he comes on this board, modestly at first, then blasting us with that witt and wisdom he has been famous for his whole career. Thank you chief, for continuing your service, even now. And you're right, you cant get a good loaf of bread south of Philly.
Captain Nechis. Where does one start. I mean I'm old school, even though I'm still technically young. Then I meet Barry some years ago. And he starts going on about SEMO and FEMA and who the heck, and what the h*ll, and I'm like "this guy eats fire department". I'm telling you, now with this consolidation study out; you see who was involved big time right? Captain Nechis knows more in his sleep then I ever knew about the fire service. He even recerted my cpr, thanks Cap.
Chief Flynn. I never met you sir, but I have to say if you were my boss you'd have my respect. I know alot of the volunteer members here get crawly skin when you bring things up. You do stir the pot and post provocative questions. Your last name should be Johnson cause you invented the QTIP. I have NEVER met a Yonkers firefighter who didn't have a very large heart inside that gruffness. Truly a great bunch of gentlemen, from Chief Fitz to Batt 2 (I met Dennis smith once and invited Batt 2 to come, but he dissed it, haha too bad I got his autograph Kieron!) to YFD910 MY BROTHER, YFD610 who has shut up ever since chief flynn told him too (good job probie lol) love ya.
16fire5, M'Ave, our brothers from NYCEMS, it's truly an honor to have FDNY members particpate in this forum imho. You are a great job, the greatest job, lucky b@stards, stay safe all of you.
The volunterer members I communicate with in private and discuss training and fireground; gentlemen. Thank you for the respect, it comes right back at ya.
ALSfirefighter (BNechis blood relative, he just don't know it) dude, 3,000+ posts? How are dem fingers holdin up?
Chr*st, we even got a Canadian comin' down here with his "I pay for my own meals" thing goin' on, his extremely proud Class A photo. You GOTTA love that guy! Welcome Nova Scotia, the most beautiful Province. how's that medals count goin' for y'all? (just kiddin bro).
A guy from England named after 10 house. I seen them guys at the funerals. Very cool. Wish I had a chance to get England and check out Big Ben and Parliament, and then hit the pubs for a straight 24.....
All y'all. I don't wanta wind it out too far here. It's cool that I got 100 posts, but truly, if you want to look for the knowledge on this board, it's all of you combined. I'm just a knucklehead (ask ANYBODY from my job), it's good to be alive, f*** flyin a plane into a building it ain't that bad.
And the lurkers out there, chiefhac and elvis, two guys that eat fire department and had the most amazing careers, if you guys ever start posting, the whole game is gonna change here.
~Firematically,
Captain George Glover (ret)
EFD

Thank you. I was going to just let this float off the board, what with this crazy day and the "big statement" this pilot had to make about his problems with the gov't.
Anyway, since I have this shared moment in the "spotlight" with a suicidal bass player (ironic if you look at my photo holding a guitar for Chr*st sake, but that's how it goes right?)
I want to talk a bit about the members you mentioned here, all of the members here are included in this sort of critique if you will, but I'm just going to wing it, and do the best I can with it.
First, there's Seth. Here he is today, in the heart of the madness in the country for today, just like he mentioned being in NY for 9/11. Can't the big stuff just leave the guy alone?
Seriously though, I'm here posting on a website that he created, and too often we take him for granted and some are critical because he shows his raw emotion at times. Seth, we know you've been through some tough sh*t in yor day, and you bounced back and gave us all a place to spend our time and share our thoughts. So thank you brother.
I'm no shill but come on guys, this site is growing in popularity and activitiy, and professionalism, and technical advancement. You think this is all a freebee? Some of y'all need to man up and help the guy out with some finances.....kay 'nuff said.
Chris192, flyin over all of us, keepin an eye and keepin it real. Stay safe up there bro.
Then we get to Chief Raftery. Why first amongst the posters? Cause the man earned it, that's why. Deputy Chief, college degree in fire science, published in fire engineering, one of the wittiest b@st@rds to ever post here. I'm proud to say he's a legacy of the Eastchester fire Dept, his dad worked there, I know cause I looked at his picture often in our headquarters. And here he comes on this board, modestly at first, then blasting us with that witt and wisdom he has been famous for his whole career. Thank you chief, for continuing your service, even now. And you're right, you cant get a good loaf of bread south of Philly.
Captain Nechis. Where does one start. I mean I'm old school, even though I'm still technically young. Then I meet Barry some years ago. And he starts going on about SEMO and FEMA and who the heck, and what the h*ll, and I'm like "this guy eats fire department". I'm telling you, now with this consolidation study out; you see who was involved big time right? Captain Nechis knows more in his sleep then I ever knew about the fire service. He even recerted my cpr, thanks Cap.
Chief Flynn. I never met you sir, but I have to say if you were my boss you'd have my respect. I know alot of the volunteer members here get crawly skin when you bring things up. You do stir the pot and post provocative questions. Your last name should be Johnson cause you invented the QTIP. I have NEVER met a Yonkers firefighter who didn't have a very large heart inside that gruffness. Truly a great bunch of gentlemen, from Chief Fitz to Batt 2 (I met Dennis smith once and invited Batt 2 to come, but he dissed it, haha too bad I got his autograph Kieron!) to YFD910 MY BROTHER, YFD610 who has shut up ever since chief flynn told him too (good job probie lol) love ya.
16fire5, M'Ave, our brothers from NYCEMS, it's truly an honor to have FDNY members particpate in this forum imho. You are a great job, the greatest job, lucky b@stards, stay safe all of you.
The volunterer members I communicate with in private and discuss training and fireground; gentlemen. Thank you for the respect, it comes right back at ya.
ALSfirefighter (BNechis blood relative, he just don't know it) dude, 3,000+ posts? How are dem fingers holdin up?
Chr*st, we even got a Canadian comin' down here with his "I pay for my own meals" thing goin' on, his extremely proud Class A photo. You GOTTA love that guy! Welcome Nova Scotia, the most beautiful Province. how's that medals count goin' for y'all? (just kiddin bro).
A guy from England named after 10 house. I seen them guys at the funerals. Very cool. Wish I had a chance to get England and check out Big Ben and Parliament, and then hit the pubs for a straight 24.....
All y'all. I don't wanta wind it out too far here. It's cool that I got 100 posts, but truly, if you want to look for the knowledge on this board, it's all of you combined. I'm just a knucklehead (ask ANYBODY from my job), it's good to be alive, f*** flyin a plane into a building it ain't that bad.
And the lurkers out there, chiefhac and elvis, two guys that eat fire department and had the most amazing careers, if you guys ever start posting, the whole game is gonna change here.
~Firematically,
Captain George Glover (ret)
EFD