waful

For FD members with duplicative, redundant and extravagant apparatus, equipment, and stations to be so critical for the painting of some police cars is really disingenuous.
The PD has as much right to paint their vehicles as the FD's do. What's the difference?

We actually have a policy pending that I wrote over a year ago that's just finally going through the process to be approved that falls in line with TASER guidelines. And I developed a Less Lethal Weapons CME for EMS Providers that covers several LL weapons but I focus heavy on TASER. I was trained through the Tac Team I'm assigned to on their operation and studied the medical aspects of them intently and have removed barbs and evaluated persons who have had them deployed on them several dozen times since they've been rolled out in our local PD. They are an extremely safe LESS LETHAL option for LE that is much safer then the other conventional less lethal options, particularly hands on which can cause injury to both perp and officer(s). I even took a full 5 second ride with the last training my local PD did as I was the medical standby for it as a tac medic and I can tell you 1. I will never ever do that again, 2. It is immediately incapacitating, 3. Everyone bounced right back up and other then some minor muscle aches a few hours later it was like nothing was wrong.
In most cases there is no need for ECG monitoring, nor ALS intervention and the most favorable time to remove the barbs is as soon as possible after deployment as the area is quarterized and numbed by the electrical output.
TASER has changed their recommendations over the past year due to 1 successful lawsuit after not having one lost in I beleive nearly or over 100 attempts. Bottom line is if a person is going to have an issue they will often show immediate signs of distress or within several minutes of deployment it doesn't happen by magic some 15 mins. to a hour later. Statistically those at risk for issues are those who have excited delerium, prior drug usage and/or multiple taser cycles and if they had a prolonged period of struggle. The energy delivered is well below the cardiac fibrillation threshold and steps down in amps the last 2 seconds of the 5 second cycle. The barbs are not long enough to penetrate organs.
A common policy (not in detail)is:
1. Gain history of situation from PD
2. Gain medical/personal history of patient including substance useage
3. Remove barbs in accordance with TASER guidelines
4. Take set of vitals and repeat within 5 to 10 mins.
5. Any abnormal vitals, get a 12 lead, provide routine medical care, treat any medical condition present and transport.
The single most important piece of the puzzle is to simply observe the patient over a good 10 to 15 minute span once you arrive. There has already been several minutes that has passed if you have been called to PD HQ since deployment.

In light of a recent and tragic L.O.D. death, along with others that I'm familiar with, I'd like to know what kind of health monitoring exists in the volunteer fire service today. I know when I joined a VFD 12 years ago, I had to go through an OSHA physical and it was fairly comprehensive. However, members only had to have this physical every 5 years. Additionally, as long as one passed the pulmonary function test and could duck walk, you were okay to continue on. More than a few guys of "generous proportions" were allowed to continue to serve. I've read too many stories and known too many people who have suffered injury and very sadly death and it can be directly attributed to their physical health.
At work, we have to have an annual physical which includes pulmonary function, EKG, heart rate on a stair master, eyes, ears, typical vitals and a full blood work-up. Members who's heartrate is too high, have hypertension, extremely high cholesterol or are excessively overweight, ect, are removed from full duty status and assigned to work somewhere where they can work on these problems without risking their health.
The Job did a casual study some years ago where members would work a normal tour while wearing a heart monitor. These members, in good health, had extremely large swings in heart rate. At times, they went from a rate in the 60's to a rate close to 200 in seconds. This is what happens when you're resting and then the tones drop and the housewatchman tells you it's a phone alarm for fire and people are reported trapped.
I know we walk a fine line in the VFD of wanting to retain members without placing too much strain on their personal lives. This is a tough balancing act, however, we might be shying too far away and ignoring very real health concerns. We need to protect our members and their families.
This is highly stressful and dangerous work. We don't need to make it more-so by not protecting ourselves.
What is being done? What can be done differently?

So it seems that some places are changing over from abrasive disc (Aluminum Oxide) blades to diamond blades on their forcible entry saws. Bill Gustin talks about it in a recent article he did in Fire Engineering. The other day I noticed that a SOC unit had one of these blades on their saw. I'm wondering what people think. A problem with the aluminum oxide blades is that they loose diameter as they cut. This is not the case with diamond blades and the new blades are thinner so the kerf is less which probably helps. I'm wondering how good they cut, what they cut, and how they last.

I think of tradition as respecting the senior firefighters, ex-officers, and officers around the firehouse, following orders both at scenes and around firehouse, any local in-house traditions such as hazing new members or new officers, having a "Mascot" like a dog, or family picnics and parties. Tradition is knowing your place in the firehouse and acting accordingly, like when you are new, keeping your mouth shut, always volunteering to do all tasks around firehouse, and not act like you know it all.
As far as the fire service, it is a constantly changing dynamic environment that needs to change with the times and technology, and any tradition that impedes this forward movement should be re-evaluated and new traditions started. Just because it is "Tradition" doesnt necessarily mean it can not be changed, and new traditions started. Some traditions should become history...But others still have their place.

bin Ladens last Facebook post:

Democrats support unions republicans do not, see Wisconsin. It is funny that the majority of emergency service people lean to the republican side, but their party does not support them.

Have we really become that much of a nation of whiners and publicity hounds that even an event as justified as the elimination of an avowed terrorist and virulently anti-American murderer causes some to be "offended" and get on the news? Let's put this in perspective
There are some upset because his codename was Geronimo. It's just a commonly used phrase and well known name, easily recognizble by everyone, not an anti Native American slur. Do people really have that much free time on their hands that they can sit and dwell on the meaning of a code name? C'mon get real will ya and go find something better to complain about.
Now an even hotter topic, whether or not he was armed...WHO CARES!!! Did this hero of so many radical Islamic murderers care whether or not the thousands he has or had murdered were armed or could defend themselves? NO he didn't, as a matter of fact he relied on the fact they weren't and preyed on the innocent just as all terrorists do. A clean quick kill for this coward is almost too good an end to this waste of human flesh. I'm quite sure many of us would have liked to have seen a much slower and excruciatingly painful demise for this "leader". To those that have a problem with the manner of his death, get over it and be thankful it was quick and he wasn't given a more fitting final few years of suffering.
And now on to his burial at sea. Again he was afforded much more respect than he ever gave to any one of his victims. Did he care that thousands were simply obliterated at Ground Zero, with no trace for the familes? NO again he counted on that. So he sleeps with the fishes, big deal. He got his immediate burial of his cleaned corpse as is Muslim custom, he got much more respect than he ever gave others or deserved. Stop whining and rejoice that he is DEAD, DEAD DEAD just as he shoud be.
And finally for all those who see his rightful removal from the face of the earth this as an increase in the risk that we, as Americans, face in this world...WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!. Osama bin Laden did not invent anti Americanism, radicalism or terrorism, he only benefited and gained notoriety from them. His death will have no great impact on the desire of those radical and militant elements in this world that want to harm us.
To Osama bin Laden GOOD RIDDANCE SCUMBAG and MAY YOU ROT IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY
Remain vigilant America and remember freedom is not free.
Thank you Obama
Thank you SEAL team six and all that serve our nation in the Military
And
God Bless America
Cogs

It's open to the public and our neighbors of the fire service. The residents of Ossining own this equipment. This is part of the comrade we have with our brothers/sisters in the fire service. Here's a great opportunity to see what the OFD recently purchased. Perhaps another department will see something they like or dislike, who knows. Also take in financially what the equipment cost, etc. etc.... On a personal note when I attend Parades or Inspections throughout the year I like to see what other equipment dept's have on their apparatus and how its setup and operational....
Be Safe

I would definitely think that staffing is the reason why the Pelham stick was not raised. The fact that 2 guys arrive ( I think that's the # )at a job makes you decide your priorities. #1 forcible entry for the engine company, #2 search of the fire floor for victims and locate the fire for the engine company, #3 search above the fire for victims and vent, and #4 open up. Does not leave a lot of time for the LCC to stick the house. In New Rochelle our assignments are as follows for PD's and multi dwelling ( non high rise ) First due truck, officer and jump seat ff force entry search fire floor, first due chauffeur does a walk around looking for things the IC may need to know ( fire location from outside and victims hanging out windows or who have already jumped ) Second due truck, officer and jump seat ff go to the floor above and search while the second due chauffeur hooks up with the first due chauffeur and ladders the building with ground ladders or the sticks. Third due if needed picks up the slack, opening up, more ground ladders, secondary searches. Pelham is up against it as soon as the bells go off and truly have to "do more with less".

OFD arrived with ladder 41, Engine 97, Engine 100 ,2331 and 2334. and 25 Ossining Firefighters. There were no Sing Sing Fire brigade members. OFD was escorted in and a count was taken of the FF. There was no delay upon arrival. We arrived at the block and was advised by corrections officers that there was a loud pop followed by smoke and then the electric going out. Once the keys to an exterior door and gate was obtained, a 2 1/2 was stretched through the door and down a set of stairs where the smoke was coming from. The stairs lead down to a utility hallway that housed steam pipes and electrical conduit. 3/4 of the way down the hall the fire was located (with T.I.C.) in an electrical room. Upon a second confirmation that the power to the block was shut off, the room was entered and a large junction box on the ceiling containing feeder cables were burning along with combutibles on the floor, The fire was extinguished and the smoke was evacuated from the building.
Upon leaving the complex, the FF were counted and the apparatus' examined. There was no contact with inmates, many of them were still in their cells until they were evacuated. The operation went well without incident.
2331
Special thanks to Briarcliff FD for having their Tower Ladder stand by in their quarters. (OFD TL-42 OOS )

Where in the definition of "Volunteer" does it say lack responsibility? It seems to me to be the ever growing "attitude" within volunteers. Whether it is a new mandate for training , or a change in operations for better overall function of your home dept. It seems to me that the "excuse" of "I'm a volunteer, why should I have to take OSHA," or "I'm a volunteer why should I have to be at my ambulance when I am rostering that time." The last time I checked when I became a volunteer at the age of 16, I joined because it was something I enjoyed doing and wanted to help. Just because you don't receive any type of monetary payments does not mean you cant uphold yourself to the same standards as everyone else. I for one feel that without changing that outlook, volunteers will be a rapidly dying breed. Now for those that don't me, and may think I am "voly bashing" get your facts straight. I have been in my dept for 10 years, and put as many hours as any other active voly. I have not forgotten where I came from, and continue to provide the service and have the attitude as of a volunteer just as I would at work. The main objective of this topic is to answer the following ques. and agree or disagree with the above statement, (Because I am a volunteer I don't have to uphold responsibility.) Is this attitude moral oriented? Is it something that can be changed? If so how?

What kinds of training props are in your department? Forcible entry, pitched and flat roof cutting, mask confidence, through the lock, and wall breach are some of the first props that come to mind.
Whether homemade or manufactured, training props are a great way to keep your members sharp in skills that aren't performed in the field every day. Manufactured items seem to be hit or miss. You need to do your research on a product before spending potentially thousands of dollars on it. Homemade props are a great way for fire fighters to be involved from the beginning. They are also pretty inexpensive to put together most of the time and can last a while. Also having these props in and around your firehouse makes the training frequently available and easy to schedule and execute.
My department purchased the Multi-Force door from Firehouse Innovations Corp last summer and have had been very pleased with it. We also made our own pitched roof simulator about four years ago. It was a first generation for us and the next roof should be made this spring/summer.
Thoughts?
JBJ

They appear to be a small group of buffs who have taken their hobby to a ridiculous level. I am not aware of them having any official affiliation with any N.Y.C. agency. It seems like these (Police - Fire - E.M.S. - Search & Rescue - Command Post - Scene Lighting, etc. "Fans", Sparks", "Buffs", "Impostors" ...) have found themselves with too much time on their hands and spare cash in their pockets and decided to purchase a large quantity of official looking stuff (radios, lights, vehicles, etc.). They have creatively lettered their somewhat official looking vehicle to look like an F.D.N.Y. SUV and put together a Facebook page and a website full of photos of the same couple of young looking kids standing in the background at various emergency scenes. How long it will take for the N.Y.P.D. or the Fire Marshall's to look below the surface and figure out that they are not on scene in an official capacity and should not be inside Police or Fire Lines ... They seem to be similar to this 'group': My link

Your assertion was that the PD is trying to perform an FD function and we were merely pointing out that PD performed these services first in many communities thereby refuting your point as it could be argued that the FD's started to perform.
What in the emergency services is based strictly upon need? There are many more duplicative resources especially in Westchester County. Nobody suggested that history and tradition dictate our roles; we merely highlighted a contrarian viewpoint. On what standards should we base these needs? I wish we did more needs assessments to determine what was needed vs. what is popular or more cool.
Having been one of the officers to which you're referring, I will argue that the WCPD ESU could perform most extrications very well regardless of the unit staffing. The tool is really a one-person job anyway and additional resources/support could always be requested. One of the toughest extrications I ever worked, I worked with an EMS supervisor from a commercial EMS and not the FD.
I'll counter your hostage argument with what happens when FD is on a fire and a pin job comes in or vice versa?
I don't think they're competing and the 289 Nep scaffolding job proves that point. PD and FD worked well together.
Yup, that's who I meant.
SWAT may be one function of ESU but ESU generally performs many other services besides SWAT. The ESU or CIU trucks in Westchester County do much more than just SWAT. LAPD SWAT is just that, SWAT.
We've discussed this at length in other threads and I think the consensus was no, they shouldn't all be cross-trained.
What differences are you referring to?
Your initial post was construed by many, myself included, to be rather critical of cops in NY. I, and others, have responded to dispute your assertions and have done so factually and respectfully. The discussion has also morphed from a comparison of police in Texas and New York to who should provide rescue services in Westchester County and it is slanted against existing PD units.
I wanted to give you a negative rep point because I don't think the initial post articulated your position well and when someone has to start it with a disclaimer that you're not being critical it is generally because they are.
If you want to discuss regional differences in law enforcement let's do that but let's not do so while simultaneously insinuating that cops in NY are somehow less than their peers in Texas.
Finally, your last remark seems to be hlghly inflammatory. What exactly do you mean with that remark?

Here are mine… Comments or a rep are always greatly appreciated

I am going to get on my very young and gung-ho soapbox right now and speak my mind. Feel free to let the flame war ensue since I'll be opening Pandora's Box right now.
Currently we have numerous, very active threads going on in the main board and that is fantastic. I am happy to be part of a very active discussion board that allows for open discussion on any topic we so choose totalk about. There is always a new post or discussion or someone chiming in on something that provides a new direction, or insight on the topic.
What does bother's me though, is the priorities that I feel many people have, as to what is actually important to the fire service, and it reflects on the types of threads posted and the activity of each thread. Currently we have threads about types of colors on chiefs cars, blue lights, other secondary/tertiary discussions as to who should have what. I have no problem with these threads as they enlighten others as to certain laws and other regulatory information.
What does bother me though is when you have a member post a topic about resources in the county and what department has special teams, only one person answers… Why? Do we really care so little about preplanning and foresight before an incident that we would much rather discuss the correct angle of chevrons over running an incident efficiently and smoothly? I know I personally was really looking forward to seeing what departments have around the county, so in case my department ever needs assistance to something we cannot ourselves handle butsomeone else can, they can be called upon.
We also have the "Tactical considerations" forum, which is a fantastic idea, but it rarely gets used, and when it does, only 2-5 people chime in with an answer. If you're wrong with an answer, who cares? It's only online training and you'll learn from your mistake. It's better done here, then out at an actual incident.
Sure I like to "buff out" every now and then as much as the next guy and get ideas from apparatus photos, but I think proactively talking and learning from other people about pre planning actual operations, or what an IC would have done differently at a fire is much more important then who won what at who's parade. There is such a vast wealth of knowledge on this board, it puzzles me that no one wants to actually release information for whatever reason they so choose.
Not a day goes by where I do not learn something new about the fireservice, and this board has definitely supplied me and numerous other people with a plethora of information. I can only hope that more people talk about the operational and tactical side of the fire service, as to me this is what truly matters and where departments stand out. The general population does not care about your roto-ray, or your undercover chief's car. They want their fire put out quickly and efficiently and their family member cut out of their car without any more harm being done. Sure things look cool, but to me, what is far, far more important is providing a homeowner or taxpaying company relief when we show up because operationally, we look like an organized, well oiled army doing everything in our power to help them out.
I'm not sure if I'm totally off base here and singling myself out, and this is no way a shot at anyone in particular but this is just an observation I have been making over the last few months and felt like it was time to share my opinion.
edit: transfered from M.Word and the format was screwed up

I highly disagree with you posting the department's name for starters. Second what agency are you in let's see how good you guys are. Everyone has issues there is atleast one dept in that same area that's worse than the one you listed, but everyone has issues no one can be as perfect as your agency.

I disagree, they are both the same age and yes one is a soldier and has tons of training (but honestly how much is driving), who says that Johnny Smith doesn't have a certain level of dedication to the fire department just as the soldier does to the armed forces? Every fire department can qualify and certify a younger member just the same, you have to sit on the member and make sure he or she can do the job right, you can also send them to classes as well for this. We also send these same younger members like yourself into a burning building and say hey go rescue those trapped people and how many hours of training did you get 100?
Also driver's only spend the time enroute to and from a call worrying about the other drivers really, then once on scene the driver worries about the same things you do and maybe more (hazards, residents, assignments and size up) and you as the crew should also be keeping an eye out on the road too incase you see something the guys up front dont. The biggest issue is how much training the department mandates the driver no matter what age, if the trainer doesnt think the person is ready they don't get put on the list until they are. Make a mandated and a curriculum for driver training and those that you know wont act and operate safely dont get the ok.
I also have question for all those regarding fire calls, your the first piece of apparatus from your station responding aside from the chiefs to a residential alarm, or an inside smoke or an mva w/ injuries when do you use the siren when do you not? My fd there is a few that refuse to use the siren and upon intersections controlled by a stop light will give the air horn a tap or two, why I have no idea but lemme tell you it is very frustrating and nerve racking when your going through multiple stop lights in the middle of the day for an mva or a inside smoke and a tap of the air horn is all you hear because the officer and driver both "can't hear the radio".

I do not believe 18 or EMS and 21 for FD's is too young for drivers. With that said, I do feel that these must be filtered. Perhaps even more filtered than some agencies/department do. I do not think the number should be focuses on as much as the ability of the driver. Numbers are stupid and just provide a guideline. I know some young drivers that are very good drivers as well as some whom are not so good. There must be in depth driver training and certification requirements in agencies/departments. This process also must not be rushed through and all issues with someone driving must be addressed.
Our country trusts 18 year old to go into Iraq with a bunch of explosives and powerful guns and kill people to protect our freedom. We allow these same people to drive tanks that have the capabilities of running over vehicles, people, or the ability to blow up entire buildings, villages, cities etc. These same people should be able to drive fire trucks and ambulances.
On a side note, they should be able to drink to!!!

First of all, chains are primarily for ice and slippery packed down snow, not necessarily snow. You can make good progress with no chains of any kind thru virgin snow where traffic has not packed it down and made it icy on the road surface. Even if you are driving your POV and start to slide the first thing you do is get out of the vehicle tracks and on to virgin snow to regain traction.
Automatic chains are excellent in urban settings. Main and secondary roads are usuallly salted /sanded to control Ice early and there is no need for chains. When you leave the main roads and encounter slippery roads, you switch to onspots.
You need both onspots and reguler chains because at about 4-6" of snow, onspots will build up snow between the tire and the rubber onspot wheel and push the onspot away from the tire.
Driving on clean pavement with regular chains has a tendency to "throw a chain" and the loose crosslink will swing and possibly cause significant body damage.
So, the use of onspots or standard chains shouldn't have anything to do with laziness (unless your'e too lazy to put them on), or Golf.
They are tools in your toolbox and applied as conditions warrant. How do you know when conditions warrant? Take a ride.

A number of posters have really hit the nail on the head regarding Police Officer LODD's, and the reasoning for a lot of them.
The FBI routinely interviews convicted Cop Killers. They are looking to answer the question, "Why did you kill this Police Officer? What made you do it?". The FBI reported that the majority of individuals interviewed responded, "Because the Officer gave me the opportunity", or "I felt like I could take advantage of the Officer", either because of the Officers poor use of tactics, or because the Officers general physical appearance (stature, build, uniform cleanliness and overall general appearance of the Officer being a "slob").
Regarding the Officers general appearance, not much can be done to correct that other then the individual Officer making time to exercise, eat right, clean/iron their uniforms, tuck in their shirts, give off a professional image/appearance, act professionally, etc.
In regards to Police Officers utilizing poor tactics, this falls on the the individual Officer, the Law Enforcement Agency, and society and how society views Police Officers. Most Police Officers have to qualify with their service weapons twice a year to be qualified to carry a firearm within their official duties. I ask the question, is anyone really good at anything they do just twice a year? If an individual officer shoots just twice a year with their department, and does not take the time outiside of work to shoot on their own time, or to attend classes given by private or government agencies, they are doing themselves a grave disservice. When Police Officers shoot to qualify, they're shooting a nice silhouette paper target, utilizing proper stance, closing their non-dominant eye, lining up their sight picture... they're target shooting for score based on the number of shots the tower or range instructor informs them to discharge. In a real-life deadly physical force encounter, Police Officers are not shooting for score, they're shooting to survive. They're point shooting. They're utilizing a combat stance (which is your body's natural reaction to a threat), they're drawing the firearm, pointing it at the target, looking past their sights, and discharging their firearm at the threat to stop the threat. They're not lining up their sights. They're not closing their non-dominant eye. There's no range instructor telling them, "Gimme 2 shots on the tone". So why aren't we conducting monthly training at the range on point shooting? Why aren't we conducting monthly realistic, scenario based training utilizing airsoft or simmunitions to mimic real life encounters? The answers are obvious (manpower, money, overtime, etc.), but Police Officers are dying because of it. The 2 days of TARGET SHOOTING at the range is a disservice to Police Officers, and is not realistic or a feasible way to train for real-life deadly physical force encounters.
In terms of how society is getting police officers killed... well, there are very few professions that are monday morning quarterbacked by the Average Joe citizen more then Law Enforcement. Law Enforcement is criticized by the media, by the general population, and even by our Police Chiefs, Commissioners, Superintendants, etc., who have become more of a group of politicians who are more worried about their own general appearance in the eyes of the public, appeasing as many special interest groups as possible for their own personal political gain, rather then protecting and supporting the Officers they are suppoesd to represent. Hollywood has the Average Joe thinking that it's a piece of cake to shoot a gun out of a perpetrators hand. The Average Joe wants to know why we don't shoot people in the leg because that's what works in Hollywood. Until the average Joe sees an aggressive, determined perpetrator take five .223 rounds center mass and continue to fight, they won't understand why Police Officers utilize aggressive tactics against an armed adversary. Take a look at a just a few examples of recents incidents:
** A SWAT officer, while conducting a tactical entry to take a barricaded subject into custody, shoots and kills a perpetrator who was attempting to stab his bunker operator with a large kitchen knife. The perp struck the ballistic shield several times with the knife before the Officer discharged his weapon. Officer placed on adminstrative desk duty for 9 months, depsite the fact that the shooting was within department and NYS Criminal Procedure Law guidelines.
** 2 Police Officers respond to an EDP, where they are confronted with an individual in a parking lot weilding a metal chair. EDP advances and closes the distance on the Officers while attempting to strike the Officers with the metal chair. Officers retreat until they are finally cornered, forcing one Officer to fire a single shot center mass, eliminating the threat. Officers brought up on department charges for not utilizing appropriate concealment. The prosecuting attorney's arguement is that the Officers should have hid behind a bush to provide them concealment, thereby avoiding the need to shoot the subject.
** Pleasantville Police Officer, after being struck by a vehicle operated by an underage, intoxicated driver, clings onto the hood of the vehicle. Despite verbal commands to stop the vehicle, driver accelerates forcing the Officer to discharge his service weapon through the windshield eliminating the threat and preventing further injury to himself. Officer is dragged through the mud by the media, vigils held for the perp killed by this Officer. Over a week before the media reports on the serious injuries sustained by the Officer.
** A Massachusetts Police Officer, responding to a possible burglary call, encounters an unruly, uncooperate subject inside a private residence. Officer ends up effecting a disorderly conduct arrest, a lawful arrest based on the Massachusetts CPL/Penal Law, where his actions are called "stupid" by our Commander-in-Chief, without having all of the details of the encounter.
Based on a few of these examples, I have made a couple of conclusions. Some of my conclusions are based on my own personal experiences and from talking to other Police Officers. The most dangerous conclusion I have come up with is that Police Officers are utilizing poor tactics and not being as aggressive as they should be in certain instances because of the fear of being dragged through the mud by the media, disciplined by their department, and placed on modified desk duty, even when their actions were appropriate and well within the legal guidelines for the use of deadly physical force. This "second-guessing" gives a perpetrator who has it in their mind that they want to injure/kill the police officer a chance to act upon their intentions.
Police administrators will quite often administer disciplinary action upon a police officer based on the media coverage of an event and the public "outcry", no matter how justified the shooting may have been based on CPL and department guidelines. Officers are taken off the road and placed on desk duty for months, sometimes even years, to prevent the officer from being involved in another deadly physical force encounter, which may look unfavorably if the same officer is involved in numerous shooting incidents, even if they are all justified shootings. This reactive measure taken by Police Administrators in turn causes Police Officers to not take aggressive action when needed for fear of "ruining their careers" or being placed on desk duty. Once again, this "second-guessing" leads to perptrators taking advantage of Police Officers. Face it, Police Officers have pages and pages of rules and guidelines to abide by, whereas perpetrators don't play by the rules, which inherently gives the perpetrator the tactical advantage.
Lastly, Law Enforcement tactics are not pretty. It involves handcuffing people, placing people face down in the dirt, ordering people out of vehicles at gunpoint, striking people with impact weapons, utilizing less lethal devices, chemical agents, and when necessary, deadly physical force. Proper tactics are not pretty, they don't look good in the eyes of the public, but they are necessary for Police Officers to go home at the end of their shift. The media doesn't understand this, society doesn't understand this, but our Police Administrators have to understand this, and have to support their Officers when their Officers actions are appropriate, no matter how it may look in the eyes of the untrained and uneducated.
Sorry for the long post! Kinda got carried away but a very important topic that is filled with TONS of information! Stay safe!

So here we have it in a nutshell. This whole headline is about, this investigation is about, this whole mud-slinging campaign is about some anonymous guys who talked to the following quoted councilman. And here we have, near the end of the story, a quote from the man who is saying the story is not a story. It's a shaping of the press, a revisionism, to cover up the sloppy and ill prepared administration with a bean counting fetish....not looking at the brewing storm, but looking at the spread sheets and thinking how much more they could squeeze out of a service that has been wrung dry. Lives were lost in the storm. The media, initially focused on the shortcomings of the administration, have fallen for this sensationalist "game changer". It sells papers, that's the business. What happened to "The Buck Stops Here"? How convenient the mayor was so "reluctant to blame" the unions. Out of a job of thousands, a couple of disgruntled employees said some stupid things, and maybe there was a small wildcat slowdown here or there.....and it turns into this. And the mayor and his staff are high-fiving each other in the back rooms of Tamany Hall, having pulled of a "coup" that saves the mayor's impeccable reputation, avoiding getting "Katrina-ed". And at the same time the news coverage shift serves the agenda of keeping the attack and the pressure on public employees' unions.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/01/04/2011-01-04_nyc_blizzard_feds_open_criminal_probe_into_alleged_city_worker_conspiracy_during.html#ixzz1A6hO0jjd

Let me get this straight...its the liberals & the conservatives who are to blame. Instead lets just call them by a common name....Politicians.
Hopefully, justice will be served and YFD members and the Joyce Family will find peace in that.

100% vounteer departments work in other counties in NY (some work in Westchester too...). Perhaps rather than pushing for more and more members, we should push for members who don't just join for the tax deduction... Departments do not need big numbers, they need big commitment.
Telling people to stop by the fire house to inquire joining is funny. Most fire departments in this county do not have people hanging around throughout the day. Some don't even have people there when there is a call!